Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

[Magenta]

God punished Sodom and Gomorrah because of their sin. There's no question this was not only a physical destruction, but also dustruction for spiritual purposes.

Notice below, only the fire is eternal. Nothing about eternal torment.

Jude 1:5-7
5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The Bible does frequently use the image of eternal fire in order to represent God's anger with sin, which will result in the total destruction of the sinner in the grave. Sodom was punished with "eternal fire" (Jude 7), i.e. it was totally destroyed due to the wickedness of the inhabitants. Today that city is in ruins, submerged beneath the waters of the Dead Sea; in no way is it now on fire, which is necessary if we are to understand 'eternal fire' literally.

Likewise Jerusalem was threatened with the eternal fire of God's anger, due to the sins of Israel: "Then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched" (Jer. 17:27). Jerusalem being the prophesied capital of the future Kingdom (Is. 2:2-4; Ps. 48:2), God did not mean for us to read this literally. The great houses of Jerusalem were burnt down with fire (2 Kings 25:9), but that fire did not continue eternally.

Similarly, God punished the land of Idumea with fire that would "not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste... the owl and the raven shall dwell in it... thorns shall come up in her palaces" (Is. 34:9-15). Seeing that animals and plants were to exist in the ruined land of Idumea, the language of eternal fire must refer to God's anger and His total destruction of the place, rather than being taken literally.

The Hebrew and Greek phrases which are translated "for ever" mean strictly, "for the age". Sometimes this refers to literal infinity, for example the age of the kingdom, but not always. Ez. 32:14-15 is an example: "The forts and towers shall be dens for ever... until the spirit be poured upon us." This is one way of understanding the 'eternity' of 'eternal fire'.

Time and again God's anger with the sins of Jerusalem and Israel is likened to fire: "Mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place (Jerusalem)... it shall burn, and shall not be quenched" (Jer. 7:20; other examples include Lam. 4:11 and 2 Kings 22:17).

Fire is also associated with God's judgment of sin, especially at the return of Christ: "For, behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up" (Mal. 4:1). When stubble, or even a human body, is burnt by fire, it returns to dust.

Malachi 4:3
"Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the
soles of your feet on the day when I act," says the LORD Almighty.

It should be noted that "hell" is "cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14). This indicates that
hell is not the same as "the lake of fire"; this represents complete destruction. In the
symbolic manner of the book of Revelation, we are being told that the grave is to be
totally destroyed, because at the end of the Millennium there will be no more death.

There will be no more mourning or suffering or tears... oh! Except for those poor souls
in the lake of fire who are being tortured and tormented in a conscious state for ever
and ever to remind them in perpetuity that they made a mistake during the short time
they had on earth to accept God as a kind and loving father... say some. Ugh.

 

[TheLearner]

Misspoke, eh?



Precious friend, ok, "words have meaning," so: what about these words?:

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of THEIR torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
+
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

So, is is the "meaning of this," that SOME are going to have LESS torment than
others?

IF your "annihilation" is true, then SOME, with a GREATER DEGREE of punishment,
are going to LAST LONGER, in THEIR torment, than others, BEFORE "being FINALLY annihilated"? Got Any SCRIPTURE "how long" that might be?

IF so, then THIS is really NOT "literally Correct," Correct?:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of THEIR torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Just wondering....

Friend you have been answered repeatedly many of us. Church History is not on your side, get over it already.
Greek Grammar in not on your side concern Matthew 25:46 neither.

If you do not like the answers, Oh Well.

The original question of this thread has been answered to death. And, it is getting tiring responding to you all.

 

[TheLearner]

Misspoke, eh?



Precious friend, ok, "words have meaning," so: what about these words?:

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of THEIR torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
+
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

So, is is the "meaning of this," that SOME are going to have LESS torment than
others?

IF your "annihilation" is true, then SOME, with a GREATER DEGREE of punishment,
are going to LAST LONGER, in THEIR torment, than others, BEFORE "being FINALLY annihilated"? Got Any SCRIPTURE "how long" that might be?

IF so, then THIS is really NOT "literally Correct," Correct?:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of THEIR torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Just wondering....

Hi friend I do not think they really want an answer. We have answered them from History, Greek Grammar and they don't like the facts.

Go through and list the questions you have asked that they have avoided and please put them in separate stand alone posts.

Bottom line, those who were taught by the Apostles believed and taught about Hell.
Christian Historical sources taught about Hell.
Greek Scholars understand the Greek grammar of Matthew 25:46 to be eternal punishment.
The doctrine of annihilation dates only as far back to the 1800's.
The few places people of their theology try to find it in the church fathers, when the quotes are check. Those texts were ripped out of context.
Bottom line, they can not handle the truth.

 

[TheLearner]

Let's talk ethos/pathos/logos for a minute.

I haven't looked deeply into your comments about the founding fathers and annihilationism, but supposing you are correct, your argument is from ethos. It requires the recognition of historical church concepts to have authority in context of the conversation.

From the perspective of logos and scripture alone, the concept of annihilationism can go either way. Logos doesn't give us a firm answer in this case.

From the perspective of pathos, many feel that the concept of annihilation is a better fit to the loving nature and mercy of God as opposed to eternal torment.

There's nothing wrong with your approach of trying to leverage the opinions (or insight) of historical figures, but there might be some disagreement as to whether those perspectives are divinely inspired.

The early church fathers were taught by the Apostles.

The Church Fathers were quoted in Councils with Authority.




"Chapter 9.— Of Hell, and the Nature of Eternal Punishments.
So then what God by His prophet has said of the everlasting punishment of the damned shall come to pass — shall without fail come to pass —their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched. Isaiah 66:24 In order to impress this upon us most forcibly, the Lord Jesus Himself, when ordering us to cut off our members, meaning thereby those persons whom a man loves as the most useful members of his body, says, It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; where their worm dies not, and their fire is not quenched. Similarly of the foot: It is better for you to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. So, too, of the eye: It is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-48 He did not shrink from using the same words three times over in one passage. And who is not terrified by this repetition, and by the threat of that punishment uttered so vehemently by the lips of the Lord Himself?
...
Matthew 25:46 If both destinies are eternal, then we must either understand both as long-continued but at last terminating, or both as endless. For they are correlative — on the one hand, punishment eternal, on the other hand, life eternal. And to say in one and the same sense, life eternal shall be endless, punishment eternal shall come to an end, is the height of absurdity. Wherefore, as the eternal life of the saints shall be endless, so too the eternal punishment of those who are doomed to it shall have no end."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120121.htm

 

[Marilyn]

I have always been close to God my entire life and the God I know does not plan to torment people who reject him for all eternity. I know what is taught and the scriptures that those who teach this use, can you tell me how a wonderful and loving God would torment forever. Putting something bad to sleep forever and out of its misery, like a dog with rabies, is merciful. Please explain without scripture (because I know the verses well) ...explain by your experience and relationship with God what he revealed to you about this. I don't understand, the God I know is not like this. I do believe there is a judgment and evil people who reject him will not have a good end, but not that way.

Hi Sakla,

When someone rejects Christ`s salvation then they have chosen to have `their own way` forever. thus God gives them that. Their spirits will not be housed in a body, so that they cannot see, speak, hear, feel, taste, smell, but they will be in their own minds with their own thoughts, as they so desired, forever. To give them an eternal body with their own way would only be giving them the ability to create havoc on others, forever.

Those who never heard of Christ`s salvation but lived right according to their conscience, will be judged on that.

BTW the `torment` is the person realising that they have missed out on knowing Christ and living with Him & others, forever.

 

[TheLearner]

good night all

 

[Runningman]

ahh ok so what does the word punishment mean ?


..Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:”

or what does this mean ?

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what about this ?

“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

define what all those terms mean and how they aren’t summarized by the resurrection of the damned

Just read the passages and see which one clearly state there is eternal punishment or not and for who this applies to.

Some of them mention eternal smoke, or eternal fire, or everlasting punishment.

Death satisfies the requirements for an everlasting punishment. A punishment doesn't imply eternal torture, especially when the Bible repeatedly says those in hell or the lake of fire have either perished, are destroyed, or have death.

To me the scope of this conversation is just analysing what the Bible actually says about torment in hell, who it applies to (if anyone), and how long it lasts.

The only verses I've seen that mentioned eternal torment for anyone are for the devil and his angels, beast, and false prophet.

Even then, as others have pointed out, eternal fire is highly interpretive considering other contexts where something did not literally burn forever. Examples: post #341.

 

[Magenta]

Just read the passages and see which one clearly state there is eternal punishment or not and for who this applies to.

Some of them mention eternal smoke, or eternal fire, or everlasting punishment.

Death satisfies the requirements for an everlasting punishment. A punishment doesn't imply eternal torture, especially when the Bible repeatedly says those in hell or the lake of fire have either perished, are destroyed, or have death.

To me the scope of this conversation is just analysing what the Bible actually says about torment in hell, who it applies to (if anyone), and how long it lasts.

The only verses I've seen that mentioned eternal torment for anyone are for the devil and his angels, beast, and false prophet.

Even then, as others have pointed out, eternal fire is highly interpretive considering other contexts where something did not literally burn forever. Examples: post #341.

Here are some more

Sodom’s fiery judgment is ‘eternal’ (Jude 7) – until… God ‘will restore the fortunes of Sodom’ (Eze. 16:53-55).

Israel’s ‘affliction is incurable’ (Jeremiah 30:12) – until… the Lord ‘will restore health’ and heal her wounds (Jeremiah 30:17).

The sin of Samaria ‘is incurable’ (Micah 1:9) – until… Lord ‘will restore the fortunes of Samaria.’ (Ez. 16:53).

Ammon is to become a ‘wasteland forever’ and ‘rise no more’ (Zephaniah 2:9,
Jeremiah 25:27) – until… the Lord will ‘restore the fortunes of the Ammonites’ (Jeremiah 49:6).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord’s congregation
‘forever’ – until… the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were ‘everlasting’,
that is – until… they ‘were shattered’ (Habakkuk 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an ‘everlasting’ priesthood (Exodus 40:15), that
is – until… it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon’s
Temple ‘forever’ (1 Kings 8:13), that is – until… the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an ‘everlasting covenant’ (Leviticus 24:8), yet we read in the New Covenant
the first was ‘done away’ and ‘abolished’ (2 Corinthians 3:11,13), and God ‘made the first old’ (Hebrews 8:13).

The fire for Israel’s sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a ‘perpetual’ – until… Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Leviticus 6:12-13, Hebrews 8:6-13).

God’s waves of wrath roll over Jonah ‘forever’ – until… the Lord delivers
him from the large fish’s belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1:17).

Egypt and Elam will ‘rise no more’ (Jeremiah 25:27) – until… the Lord will ‘restore the
fortunes of Egypt’ (Ezekiel 29:14) and ‘restore the fortunes of Elam’ (Jeremiah 49:39).

‘Moab is destroyed’ (Jeremiah 48:4, 42) – until… the Lord ‘will restore the fortunes of Moab’ (Jeremiah 48:47).

Israel’s judgment lasts ‘forever’ – until… the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isaiah 32:13-15).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bondslave
was to serve his master ‘forever’ (Exodus 21:6), that is – until… his death.”

Please excuse any possible duplicate verses from earlier; if there are any, it is
unintentional. I did do a search for a couple of them and found no match

 

[Magenta]

Is Sodom still burning?

The "eternal fire" of hell is one hot topic! It has been misunderstood by many
people for centuries. Here are examples and Scripture to show its true meaning.

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed,
into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matt 25:41)

It is not the fire itself but its effects that are everlasting as in Jude 7:

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication,
and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."(Jude 7)

Note that "everlasting fire" (Matt 25:41) and "eternal fire" (Jude 7) are from the same original words. Of course,
Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning yet they "are set forth for an example" of the results of a sinful course.

"And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an
sinful overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;" (2Pet 2:6)

The wicked will be burned up not burning forever in an eternal fire.

"And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles
of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Mal 4:3)

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of
lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." (Psa 37:20)

The punishment is everlasting destruction:

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thess 1:9)

It is the destruction, not the process that is forever. The Bible's use of terms
like eternal and everlasting can be understood better by some examples.


Further examples of forever to show its meaning

"And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children;
I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall
also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his
ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever." (Exo 21:5-6)

In this case, the slave is opting to stay with his master and
serve him for as long as he lives and it is termed forever.

"But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned,
and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD, and there abide for ever." (1 Sam 1:22)

Of course, Samuel only abided there for a limited period of time.

"I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about
me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God." (Jon 2:6)

In Jonah's case forever was only a few days, although it may have seemed like an eternity.


By one count, "forever" is used 56 times in the Bible to describe things that have ended.
//www.jesus-resurrection.info/eternal-fire.html

 

[ewq1938]

you have absolutely no place judging me heretic because I’m in a discussion forum me you don’t agree with what I say .

I didn't call you a heretic in my post.

 

[1ofthem]

How could ceasing to exist be eternal punishment?

Isn't this what atheist believe?

They die and that's it!

If you just cease to exist when you die, then that would be more like a gift for some people. Wouldn't the people who hate God be happy with a punishment such as this... just dying and ceasing to exist?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[

Just read the passages and see which one clearly state there is eternal punishment or not and for who this applies to.

Some of them mention eternal smoke, or eternal fire, or everlasting punishment.

Death satisfies the requirements for an everlasting punishment. A punishment doesn't imply eternal torture, especially when the Bible repeatedly says those in hell or the lake of fire have either perished, are destroyed, or have death.

To me the scope of this conversation is just analysing what the Bible actually says about torment in hell, who it applies to (if anyone), and how long it lasts.

The only verses I've seen that mentioned eternal torment for anyone are for the devil and his angels, beast, and false prophet.

Even then, as others have pointed out, eternal fire is highly interpretive considering other contexts where something did not literally burn forever. Examples: post #341.

I have much respect for you particularly in this thread because of reading many of your posts in my time here


we can avoid it but here’s some clear ones I know you are different than most and that you value clarity of scripture just consider what this makes you consider and I’m gonna drop out of this one no hard feelings sorry we disagreed at some Points

all Of these support eternal
Torment ( not torture ) torment in many forms. And none supports the non existence of those in the lake of fire nothing suggested temporary nature to it but eternal

t the is is what I’m talking about not how we interpret fire from various different stages of prophecy this is what I’m talking about

“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:20‬ ‭

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and

: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

‭‭‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so you have Satan , the beast ( a man ) and the false prophets ( men ) and all the people who serve Satan and follow his will and bear his mark that go into this place.

we can’t interpret it by what’s not there but what is there? Satan and the beast and false prophets will be tormented forever and ever in the presence of God , and also that all who serve him will be tormented in the presence of God , and the simple of thier tomemt arises forever and ever and they never get any rest

so your only argument with it is the phrase “ thier smoke rose “ could
Mean it’s not eternal
Torment

and another argument is we’ll fire is interpreted on different ways in different places true but so is water , gardens light , darkness all
Are used in different ways in scripture

specifically Talking about the lake of fire and final judgement is different so we have all thy see other references by thy truth himself about it and the prophets of course

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:43

hell Is never said to be destroyed but to become part of the lake of fire. It is a place not to kill but for the devils due. All things of the devil will inherit his home. And thier worm will
Never die and the spark of thier soul never be quenched

if you notice Jesus was preaching about how to Not end up there God has always been doing that but we keep
Refusing to believe him if we don’t believe it’s there how can we believe his teachings like this about how to avoid it ?

“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:47-48‬ ‭

it’s an option heaven or hell like the old timers taught us we need to believe and be saved and tell
Others even though it turns them against us it’s still true

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I didn't call you a heretic in my post.

define what a heretic is ?

 

[Icedaisey]

I forget where did Joseph name Jesus Emmanuel ??? I agree Jesus is God. I just don't see the Father of Jesus naming him Emmanuel.

If you look for the scripture where the angel informed Mary she was highly favored to bear the Messiah into the world you'll find it.

 

[Icedaisey]

Do you believe that Christ does not fulfil the law?

Are you able to answer my prior question? Or shall you continue to avoid it?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How could ceasing to exist be eternal punishment?

Isn't this what atheist believe?

They die and that's it!

If you just cease to exist when you die, then that would be more like a gift for some people. Wouldn't the people who hate God be happy with a punishment such as this... just dying and ceasing to exist?

it’s exactly what atheists and also wicked people believe to justify thier actions on earth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How could ceasing to exist be eternal punishment?

Isn't this what atheist believe?

They die and that's it!

If you just cease to exist when you die, then that would be more like a gift for some people. Wouldn't the people who hate God be happy with a punishment such as this... just dying and ceasing to exist?

Get out of jail free card 🙂

 

[Pilgrimshope]

good night all

God lovezzzzzzzz you haha

 

[ewq1938]

The doctrine of annihilation dates only as far back to the 1800's.

No, it dates back to the writing of the OT and was further taught in NT. It's Eternal torment which started in the last part of first century.

Ignatius of Antioch (110AD)

Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John, and succeeded the Apostle Peter as the Bishop of Antioch. He wrote a number of important letters to believers in churches in the area:

Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death . how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him. (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2)


Clearly Ignatius of Antioch who was a student of the Apostle John taught that the unsaved would face death as opposed to an eternal life. This is the earliest Annihilationist teaching by a church father that I have so far found. Less than 100 years later the doctrine of eternal torment infected the church fathers and that became prevalent in the church.

 

[Runningman]

all Of these support eternal
Torment ( not torture ) torment in many forms. And none supports the non existence of those in the lake of fire nothing suggested temporary nature to it but eternal

t the is is what I’m talking about not how we interpret fire from various different stages of prophecy this is what I’m talking about

“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:20‬ ‭

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That only mentions three persons being tormented forever.

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and

Doesn't mention eternal torment.

: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

‭‭‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Doesn't mention eternal torment.

The smoke ascends forever.

Doesn't say the day/night cycles last forever.

[/QUOTE]so you have Satan , the beast ( a man ) and the false prophets ( men ) and all the people who serve Satan and follow his will and bear his mark that go into this place.

we can’t interpret it by what’s not there but what is there? Satan and the beast and false prophets will be tormented forever and ever in the presence of God[/QUOTE]

I can possibly agree that those three persons are tormented forever because the text literally says that. Or it could be figurative language.

and also that all who serve him will be tormented in the presence of God , and the simple of thier tomemt arises forever and ever and they never get any rest

I don't see that.

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Doesn't mention eternal torment.

“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:43

Doesn't mention eternal torment.

hell Is never said to be destroyed but to become part of the lake of fire. It is a place not to kill but for the devils due. All things of the devil will inherit his home. And thier worm will
Never die and the spark of thier soul never be quenched

That's false.

Revelation 20:12-15(KJV)
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death, hell, and everyone else in the lake of fire die again - it's a second death.

1 Corinthians 15:26 - death is destroyed
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:47-48‬

Doesn't mention eternal torment.