predestination vs freewill
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God purposed to so love the world to send His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him will be saved.
God purposed that whoever believes in His Son to be saved because He so loved the world.
God purposed whoever to be save to believe in His Son because He only loves those who love Him.
One of these statements goes with/against? Christ's own teaching that even the heathen love only those who love them.
God purposed that whoever believes in His Son to be saved because He so loved the world.
God purposed whoever to be save to believe in His Son because He only loves those who love Him.
One of these statements goes with/against? Christ's own teaching that even the heathen love only those who love them.
Sin has to be dealt with first.
God knows that, which is why He died on the Cross for the sin of the world.
Does He also know that those who believe will become "One with God, In Christ"?
He must, as He created the gift of salvation., as "justification by faith" because "faith is counted as righteousness".
God knows that, which is why He died on the Cross for the sin of the world.
Does He also know that those who believe will become "One with God, In Christ"?
He must, as He created the gift of salvation., as "justification by faith" because "faith is counted as righteousness".
No. We are unable to truly hear or perceive things spiritual until becoming born again.
[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV]
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
[Eph 1:17-18 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV]
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
[Eph 1:17-18 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
That would be impossible.
See, you can't receive the new birth, until your SIN is dealt with by the BLood of Jesus.
So, to teach, as you are teaching, that we are born again before God deals with our sin.... isn't true.
Its the Holy Spirit who reveals Jesus to the heart, and then the person decides what to do about that...
Some make the step of faith, and some resist this truth.
There are people who have heard the gospel half their lives, and know its true, but they wont trust in Christ.
See, you can't receive the new birth, until your SIN is dealt with by the BLood of Jesus.
So, to teach, as you are teaching, that we are born again before God deals with our sin.... isn't true.
Its the Holy Spirit who reveals Jesus to the heart, and then the person decides what to do about that...
Some make the step of faith, and some resist this truth.
There are people who have heard the gospel half their lives, and know its true, but they wont trust in Christ.
Nope, don't think so. It is true, the prideful typically can't spiritually see nor hear, but I don't believe those verses have that intent in view. Please observe that "they "could not believe", and their "hears were hardened". Paul's belief (in Eph 1:17 -18) was that they would receive the spirit of wisdom (the Holy Spirit) to give wisdom, etc. So, I feel confident the verse is informing that God alone gives to us those spiritual attributes ( a result of being born again), from which we gain spiritual knowledge, comprehensions, and generally, all of the traits associated with a true Christian. Until He does, we're dead spiritually, unable to give to ourselves spiritual life. After all, God is the Savior, we are not.
[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV]
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
[Eph 1:17-18 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
[Jhn 12:39-40 KJV]
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
[Eph 1:17-18 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
I understand your viewpoint come from the leading of KJV.
However, verse 37 leads into John 12:39-40 saying, "Although Jesus performed many signs in their presence, they still did not believe Him." It is debatable whether the correct reading of the subsequent verse 38 should be 'this was to fulfill' or might simply be "this fulfilled... and in that they continued in unbelief were made unable to believe, i.e., their initial condition of unbelief being 'hardened' would not necessitate that they were never able to believe if only would humble themselves and...
Eph 1:17-18 is a citation of Paul's prayer. In John 16, when His disciples said, "...we do not understand what He is saying," Jesus said, "...Ask and you will receive,..."
However, verse 37 leads into John 12:39-40 saying, "Although Jesus performed many signs in their presence, they still did not believe Him." It is debatable whether the correct reading of the subsequent verse 38 should be 'this was to fulfill' or might simply be "this fulfilled... and in that they continued in unbelief were made unable to believe, i.e., their initial condition of unbelief being 'hardened' would not necessitate that they were never able to believe if only would humble themselves and...
Eph 1:17-18 is a citation of Paul's prayer. In John 16, when His disciples said, "...we do not understand what He is saying," Jesus said, "...Ask and you will receive,..."
Sin was dealt with when Christ on the cross said that "it is finished" and gave up the ghost (for all He came to save).
Christ only had to sacrifice once, not repeatedly, so once completed, it was sufficient for all for which it was intende
After that, it was a matter of when God chose to save people individually, and give spiritual lifte (become born again)
[Rom 6:11 KJV] 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Nope, the heart of natural man is deceitful:
[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
They can't truly, fully undstand the Gospel or else why wouldn't they trust Christ?
Christ only had to sacrifice once, not repeatedly, so once completed, it was sufficient for all for which it was intende
After that, it was a matter of when God chose to save people individually, and give spiritual lifte (become born again)
[Rom 6:11 KJV] 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Nope, the heart of natural man is deceitful:
[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
They can't truly, fully undstand the Gospel or else why wouldn't they trust Christ?
Ephesians 1:17-18 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom...
that's a prayer asking that God answer, which is granted, according to Jesus word in John 16:24. But asking takes humility, the acknowledgement of their need of Him, which the unfaithful too often, and all too very willfully refuse to admit.
that's a prayer asking that God answer, which is granted, according to Jesus word in John 16:24. But asking takes humility, the acknowledgement of their need of Him, which the unfaithful too often, and all too very willfully refuse to admit.
so acco
But we were predestined before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of His Son, which means that we will be sanctified in this life and glorified when Jesus returns, ie we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.
So in your system, God predestined us to be sanctified, glorified, to be heirs ( Ephesians 1:11), and to be raised to eternal glory, but our new birth was not predestined until we believed.
Except none of these things I listed happen unless we are born again. So how is it that God predestined all these things while our new birth was yet undetermined?
The fact is that God predestined all these things because He FOREKNEW US. Elect according to the foreknowledge of God.
But we were predestined before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of His Son, which means that we will be sanctified in this life and glorified when Jesus returns, ie we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.
So in your system, God predestined us to be sanctified, glorified, to be heirs ( Ephesians 1:11), and to be raised to eternal glory, but our new birth was not predestined until we believed.
Except none of these things I listed happen unless we are born again. So how is it that God predestined all these things while our new birth was yet undetermined?
The fact is that God predestined all these things because He FOREKNEW US. Elect according to the foreknowledge of God.