Sabbath

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
This is not the first time this topic has come up. Most start with Paul's words and how works don't get you to heaven. Forgive me if I pointed a finger at you, it was unintentional. I may have been reading higher up or lower down when I hit the reply button. It seems like people avoid the words and Jesus and go directly to Paul. When you remind them what Jesus said they tell you that is not what Paul said and that is not what Jesus meant.
I see
I just believe all scripture is God breathed. That’s means all of it was written by God. Paul is Not Going to say what Jesus dis Not believe. Or he was not inspired
I believe people Go to Paul a lot because Paul is the one who has to Fight legalism so he is the go to since he spoke against it
MoreThan Anyone else
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
@ rstrats

look

I have no clue what you are trying to say

You said that Calvin states the opposite of support for my view. Just exactly what do you think my view is with regard to Romans 14 and the Sabbath?
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
let's see....if you break the law in any way, even in your thoughts according to Jesus, then you have sinned

so without the law, as scripture states, we could excuse our sin...so, your premise is wrong

Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator. Galatians 3:19

Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin. Romans 3:20

the law makes you aware of sin...the opposite of what you say
If dealing with multiple chapters I would prefer to address one verse at a time. But I appreciate the fact that you did leave some scriptures this time to represent your point of view....

Galatians 3:19 - Context is very important... You can see from verses 16 and 18 that Paul is referring to law POST Abraham. When we see the word "law" in scripture it could be referring to man created law, god's law, laws given to specific people, etc. I don't remember if it was my initial post or one of my early responses, but I clarified that when I was speaking about law I was speaking of all instructions from the Father... From "be fruitful and multiply" to the holy days, the sabbath, commandments, etc. Yes, sin existed in the world before the laws that Paul was referring to here, but not before the very first laws. Adam had to be given the law not to eat of the tree, before sin could enter into the world.

Romans 3:20 - I believe the phrase "works of the law" would be better understood if it just read "what the law entails"... Some translations write "deeds of the law" here. The point is that just the knowing of the law shows us how much we are falling short... but this is not saying that doing the law does not effect our future blessings or curses.

Lets look at a verse from Paul in the previous chapter...

Romans 2:13 - For it is not merely those who hear the Law who are righteous in God’s sight. No, it is those who follow the Law, who will be justified.

How Romans 3:20 is commonly interpreted, it would appear to be in direct contradiction with Romans 2:13.... But Romans 3:20 is just pointing out the first half of Romans 2:13... how merely KNOWING the law only shows how much we sin. The last half of Romans 2:13 points out that we are justified by actually DOING the law.
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
and yet Jesus did break the Sabbath, by healing, he also reminded the Pharisees of how David broke the Sabbath and then Jesus called Himself the Lord of the Sabbath

your understanding is so flawed there are no words to adequately describe it

JESUS BROKE THE SABBATH DUDE

Jesus was sinless, you and I are not
Helping others is not considered "work" biblically ... Healing, pulling a donkey out of a ditch etc. Like I've stated many times... what was being done at the time was not correct law. The Messiah showed us how to follow the law as it was meant to be.

Saying "Jesus broke the sabbath" and "Jesus was sinless" is a direct contradiction.

The sabbath is an instruction from God - LAW

The definition of sin is - BREAKING GODS LAW

If the Messiah broke the sabbath that would then mean he was not sinless.

He kept the sabbath.
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
your response to what I said:

SophieT said:
you got met with the truth of the Bible and it does not fit your personal Sabbatarian/law keeping practices

there is nothing about the Sabbatarians in the Bible. what chapter and verse? do you have your own Bible? :oops:
The point is talking about Sabbatarians gets nowhere... If you have a chapter and verse you want to address, we can do that
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
Yeah your right. I have not discussed any scripture at all
dude you just hurt yourself by trying to say something that is Not true. I have been posting scripture all day
Thats a straw man. I never said that you didn't discuss any scripture at all.
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
I know he was sinless he fulfilled the law. By the law of love. NOT by the law of Moses, that’s not why it was given. It was given to confine all under sin. We t was given not for the righteous but the sinner. You have been shown these passages over and over
What chapters and verses refer to this new law of love?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
Helping others is not considered "work" biblically ... Healing, pulling a donkey out of a ditch etc. Like I've stated many times... what was being done at the time was not correct law. The Messiah showed us how to follow the law as it was meant to be.

Saying "Jesus broke the sabbath" and "Jesus was sinless" is a direct contradiction.

The sabbath is an instruction from God - LAW

The definition of sin is - BREAKING GODS LAW

If the Messiah broke the sabbath that would then mean he was not sinless.

He kept the sabbath.

as a Jewish man, born under the Law, He was required to.

since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we) are under no such requirement, as having never been commanded to keep it.

no matter ellen white says...
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,555
1,057
113
Australia
as a Jewish man, born under the Law, He was required to.

since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we) are under no such requirement, as having never been commanded to keep it.

no matter ellen white says...
What was the purpose of the seventh day given to perfect Adam at creation? Why was the Seventh day made Holy and sanctified at creation?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,555
1,057
113
Australia
as a Jewish man, born under the Law, He was required to.

since gentiles were never under the Law, they ( we) are under no such requirement, as having never been commanded to keep it.

no matter ellen white says...
When were they required to keep the Sabbath?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
What was the purpose of the seventh day given to perfect Adam at creation? Why was the Seventh day made Holy and sanctified at creation?

there is no specific command from God to Adam to keep the Sabbath.

nor was there one for Noah.

nor Abraham, Isaac , Joseph,....


nor Moses till Sinai.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,555
1,057
113
Australia
the nation of Israel was commanded to by Moses at Sinai.
From my reading they were asked to keep it before Sinai.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,555
1,057
113
Australia
there is no specific command from God to Adam to keep the Sabbath.

nor was there one for Noah.

nor Abraham, Isaac , Joseph,....


nor Moses till Sinai.
But it is clear that the Sabbath was set aside for Holy use (Sanctified) at that time.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,555
1,057
113
Australia
there is no specific command from God to Adam to keep the Sabbath.

nor was there one for Noah.

nor Abraham, Isaac , Joseph,....


nor Moses till Sinai.
It is also clear that Noah and Abraham, Isaac and Joseph were obeying God and keeping Gods commands. There obedience set them aside from those that disobeyed.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,555
1,057
113
Australia
The Sabbath was created at creation. When did it end?
there is no specific command from God to Adam to keep the Sabbath.

nor was there one for Noah.

nor Abraham, Isaac , Joseph,....


nor Moses till Sinai.
There was no specific command to Adam to not take the Lords name in vain or to not steal or to not Lie. Does that mean those morals didn't need to be obeyed.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
It is also clear that Noah and Abraham, Isaac and Joseph were obeying God and keeping Gods commands. There obedience set them aside from those that disobeyed.

It is also clear that Noah and Abraham, Isaac and Joseph were obeying God and keeping Gods commands. There obedience set them aside from those that disobeyed.

there is not one verse about them being commanded to keep the Sabbath.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
From my reading they were asked to keep it before Sinai.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.

yes, my mistake, Israel was Commanded to keep the Sabbath.

for the first time. and still only them only.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,555
1,057
113
Australia
yes, my mistake, Israel was Commanded to keep the Sabbath.

for the first time. and still only them only.
that is a presumption ("only for them"), I have shown that the Sabbath was made holy at creation before sin even entered. When was it made NOT holy? So When do we stop remembering that it is HOLY?
Does that mean we don't need to obey any of the other commandments that are recorded at Sinai. does that mean that if the command is given to the Jews it only applies to them. Why do you say it only applies to the Israelites? Not killing is important and not lying is important today.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
that is a presumption ("only for them"), I have shown that the Sabbath was made holy at creation before sin even entered. When was it made NOT holy? So When do we stop remembering that it is HOLY?
Does that mean we don't need to obey any of the other commandments that are recorded at Sinai. does that mean that if the command is given to the Jews it only applies to them. Why do you say it only applies to the Israelites? Not killing is important and not lying is important today.

when you find a command for any nation or people other than Israel to keep the Sabbath, let me know.


until then, i will focus on what the Bible actually says in writing , not on building theology around assumptions..