Saved by Water

[FreeGrace2]

It seems the major points in scripture is waning in some's minds......so here is help;

Let us consider other scripture messages requiring baptism;
Baptism is Required

No, water baptism is commanded. To saved people.

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.....

Let's consider the whole verse.

and this water (literal water, from v.20 and the flood, which DIDN'T save anyone, but rather drowned the entire population) symbolizes baptism (of the Holy Spirit) that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So, the verse clearly says that literal water symbolizes the baptism (Holy Spirit) that now saves you.

iow, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what saves, not getting dunked in literal water.

Just ask the entire population of Noah's day how their full immersion in water worked out for them.

Or ask the entire Egyptian army how their full immersion in water worked out for them. Yet, Paul equates the israelites with being "baptized in Moses in the cloud and in the sea". 1 Cor 10:1,2

This proves that dry baptisms are real; iow the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is the wet baptisms that are ritual; symbolic of an identification.

Actually, both wet and dry baptisms are symbolic of something. But dry baptisms, like 1 Cor 10:1,2 speak of, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, are real identifications, while wet baptisms use ritual to symbolize an identification.

So, water baptism is commanded for believers as an identification of being with Christ.

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

"born of water" refers to physical birth
"born of the Spirit" refers to spiritual birth, when the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us.

Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Here is the preceding verse:

v.37 -
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The red words demonstrate that the crowd were convicted by what they heard, and realized that they HAD assisted in the crucifixion of Jesus. So they asked Peter what they should to. iow, how could they fix their mess.

So, by this time, they had already changed their minds (repented) about Jesus Christ and were saved. So Peter wasn't telling them how to be saved. He was telling them what they should NOW do.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It should be obvious that after seeing and hearing the Lord directly on the road, and being blind for 3 straight days, Saul had enough time to figure out exactly who Jesus really was. So this is like Acts 2:38. He had by now realized that Jesus WAS the Messiah. What follows naturally is water baptism as an identification with Christ.

Roman 6;3.... Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

This is the symbolism of water baptism.

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Refers to either the real and dry baptism of the Holy Spirit or the ritual and wet baptism by immersion.

Mark16;16.... He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.....

Study Bibles all indicate that v.9-20 don't appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts. This means these verses were added later on by scribes. They aren't inspired.

Also Acts 2;38..Repent and be baptized....

See above.

Many others

Here's one to consider:

1 Cor 1-
14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Quite a remarkable statement from arguably the most prolific evangelist ever. He distanced himself from water baptism.

If Paul thought that water baptism was required for salvation, we would be reading that in every one of his epistles, but we don't.

Instead, Paul was glad that he didn't baptize very many.

As for your "many more" comment, here are the verses that mention people geting saved, coming to faith and there is NO mention of water baptism:

Acts 2:47, 3:16, 19, 4:4, 12, 5:42, 6:7, 8:36, 9:17, 18, 31, 35, 42, 10:44, 47, 11:16, 21, 24, 13:12, 38,39,48, 17:34, 18:8, 19:18, 20:21, 24, Rom 1:16.

 

[peldom10]

No, water baptism is commanded. To saved people.


Let's consider the whole verse.

and this water (literal water, from v.20 and the flood, which DIDN'T save anyone, but rather drowned the entire population) symbolizes baptism (of the Holy Spirit) that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So, the verse clearly says that literal water symbolizes the baptism (Holy Spirit) that now saves you.

iow, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what saves, not getting dunked in literal water.

Just ask the entire population of Noah's day how their full immersion in water worked out for them.

Or ask the entire Egyptian army how their full immersion in water worked out for them. Yet, Paul equates the israelites with being "baptized in Moses in the cloud and in the sea". 1 Cor 10:1,2

This proves that dry baptisms are real; iow the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is the wet baptisms that are ritual; symbolic of an identification.

Actually, both wet and dry baptisms are symbolic of something. But dry baptisms, like 1 Cor 10:1,2 speak of, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, are real identifications, while wet baptisms use ritual to symbolize an identification.

So, water baptism is commanded for believers as an identification of being with Christ.


"born of water" refers to physical birth
"born of the Spirit" refers to spiritual birth, when the Holy Spirit indwells the believer. This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us.


Here is the preceding verse:

v.37 -
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The red words demonstrate that the crowd were convicted by what they heard, and realized that they HAD assisted in the crucifixion of Jesus. So they asked Peter what they should to. iow, how could they fix their mess.

So, by this time, they had already changed their minds (repented) about Jesus Christ and were saved. So Peter wasn't telling them how to be saved. He was telling them what they should NOW do.


It should be obvious that after seeing and hearing the Lord directly on the road, and being blind for 3 straight days, Saul had enough time to figure out exactly who Jesus really was. So this is like Acts 2:38. He had by now realized that Jesus WAS the Messiah. What follows naturally is water baptism as an identification with Christ.


This is the symbolism of water baptism.


Refers to either the real and dry baptism of the Holy Spirit or the ritual and wet baptism by immersion.


Study Bibles all indicate that v.9-20 don't appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts. This means these verses were added later on by scribes. They aren't inspired.


See above.


Here's one to consider:

1 Cor 1-
14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Quite a remarkable statement from arguably the most prolific evangelist ever. He distanced himself from water baptism.

If Paul thought that water baptism was required for salvation, we would be reading that in every one of his epistles, but we don't.

Instead, Paul was glad that he didn't baptize very many.

As for your "many more" comment, here are the verses that mention people geting saved, coming to faith and there is NO mention of water baptism:

Acts 2:47, 3:16, 19, 4:4, 12, 5:42, 6:7, 8:36, 9:17, 18, 31, 35, 42, 10:44, 47, 11:16, 21, 24, 13:12, 38,39,48, 17:34, 18:8, 19:18, 20:21, 24, Rom 1:16.

WOW..you are off base...no one is saved until God says we are saved upon His judgement. Remember It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement.
When we repent, are baptized and are living a righteous life we are....born again.

I would never try to replace God's judgement by saying I am saved...while on this earth. Only He has that authority which He applies after our physical death.

 

[peldom10]

So we should revert to your old age religion of works. And become no better than the jews?

No thank you

No one said anything about works. Why do you?

 

[posthuman]

WOW..you are off base...no one is saved until God says we are saved upon His judgement.

the fact is that the Bible talks about our salvation in each tense:

• we have been saved
  • ex. 2 Timothy 1:9
• we are being saved
  • ex. 1 Corinthians 1:18
• we will be saved
  • ex. Romans 5:9

we can't just pick one and pretend the others aren't true.
we ought to expect this kind of variation in language, actually, since God is outside of time, and our salvation is hiding us in Him -- therefore it is also eternal, and separate from time.


but as to your particular comment -- that no one is saved until after His judgement?
do you have reason to doubt His promises, that He gives eternal life to all who believe in Him, and He loses none of us?
if He is faithful ((& He is)) i don't see what cause anyone has to speak of it as though it is in any way unsure.

 

[posthuman]

I would never try to replace God's judgement by saying I am saved...while on this earth.

should i doubt Him?

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life!​

(John 5:24) ​

​

if i believe Him, friend, i am not doubting Him.
i am saved and there is no doubt of it; it is a firm & secure hope, an anchor for the soul.
i don't have to wait until He appears to have the question settled: His word is Truth

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did anyone ever tell you...you are just wrong with scripture.

If not allow me.

Lol. whatever. A lot of pride their my friend. Of course I come to expect that from workers for

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who said that is all we need to do?
You can not hide behind that spin.

Where you are wrong with scripture is....mixing preparation of the soul status....repentance process...with the availability process.

Your wrong in the process and f receiving the gift of salvation your trying to earn it. You will fail.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are trying to hide your new age religion teaching behind something that does not associate with the act of baptism.
Good luck on that one.

Please show me a sample of your teaching re; baptism, recorded before 1960?

How about in scripture?
I was baptized my friend. And everyone I know was baptized. So take your judgement someplace else. Your nit as smart as you think you are

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a violation of Revelation 22; 18,19 and two other like book warnings....we are not to change the intent and meaning of scripture.

You are violating all three.

Show me where being baptized is a works? I guess you are also saying repentance is works...? How about living a righteous life are you saying that is works?
PS....If you choose to study the Bible you will find that ...faith without works is dead. (another issue)

Well you changed the intent of acts 28. So judge yourself as guilty
works is the plan of earning ir
Maintaining salvation by your works.
Being sanctified by God and living like Christ as a result of salvation is not works

I pray you learn the difference

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one said anything about works. Why do you?

You need to reread your posts. It’s all you talk about

 

[posthuman]

Please show me a sample of your teaching re; baptism, recorded before 1960?

will this do?

"Baptism shall be given to all those who have learned repentance and amendment of life, and who believe truly that their sins are taken away by Christ, and to all those who walk in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and wish to be buried with Him in death, so that they may be resurrected with Him and to all those who with this significance request it (baptism) of us and demand it for themselves. This excludes all infant baptism, the highest and chief abomination of the Pope. In this you have the foundation and testimony of the apostles. Matt. 28, Mark 16, Acts 2, 8, 16, 19."​

​

the Schleitheim Confession (1527)​

 

[FreeGrace2]

WOW..you are off base...no one is saved until God says we are saved upon His judgement.

Salvation is assured the moment one believes in Christ for it. I'm not off base at all.

Remember It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement.

This is true. For both believer and unbeliever. Do you what each group will be judged on? Their works. Do you know the purpose that each group is being judged on their works?

When we repent, are baptized and are living a righteous life we are....born again.[/QUOTE]
Regeneration occurs at the same moment as faith in Christ.

I would never try to replace God's judgement by saying I am saved...while on this earth.

Then you don't believe all the promises of eternal life in the Bible, huh.

Jesus said those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life in John 5:24.
Then in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So, from what you've just said, you don't believe what Jesus said.

Only He has that authority which He applies after our physical death.

Salvation isn't applied after our physical death. It is applied WHEN we believe in Christ for salvation.

You have it backwards.

 

[Hakawaka]

The fooLish thing to say is one must say a sinners prayer and get water baptized to be saved,

i mean why do any other works if this is all we need to do?

Why go to church, why pray without ceasing, why take the lords supper. Why do anything? Your saved by your one act and you can go live however you want.

Because all of these things you listed are part of salvation. Taking the Lord's supper equals faith.
Faith = believing = doing.

You cant say I believe Jesus but then dont do any of the things He said to do. Obviously. We know this on a secular level, but when it comes to the Bible we are lost in theology-land.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because all of these things you listed are part of salvation. Taking the Lord's supper equals faith.
Faith = believing = doing.

You cant say I believe Jesus but then dont do any of the things He said to do. Obviously. We know this on a secular level, but when it comes to the Bible we are lost in theology-land.

Wrong

I can take the lords supper and Not have faith.

Faith is in christ to save us from our sins. That is what saves us Not baptism, or communion or going to church. Those are results of faith, but many people do all those things and have no faith. Your in effect telling them because they do those things they are saved. Theor faith is in those works. Not in christ.

The jews did many works. But their faith was in works. Not in what God said. So when christ came they crucified him. They had many works. And claimed to have faith in God. But their faith was in self.

Thats what you are promoting my friend.

 

[peldom10]

How about in scripture?
I was baptized my friend. And everyone I know was baptized. So take your judgement someplace else. Your nit as smart as you think you are

Only trying to get you to respect the Bible and not try to change it.

 

[peldom10]

Salvation is assured the moment one believes in Christ for it. I'm not off base at all.


This is true. For both believer and unbeliever. Do you what each group will be judged on? Their works. Do you know the purpose that each group is being judged on their works?

When we repent, are baptized and are living a righteous life we are....born again.

Regeneration occurs at the same moment as faith in Christ.


Then you don't believe all the promises of eternal life in the Bible, huh.

Jesus said those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life in John 5:24.
Then in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So, from what you've just said, you don't believe what Jesus said.


Salvation isn't applied after our physical death. It is applied WHEN we believe in Christ for salvation.

You have it backwards.[/QUOTE]

Yes...upon His award of eternal life after judgement.

You can't have it both ways....you say you are saved ..........God will judge you and decide if you are saved....which is it?

Apply common sense. The Bible suggest we apply common sense no less than 14 times.

You are being deceived thru new age religion teachings....wake up.

 

[peldom10]

Water saves no one.

r the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Please ask the Egyptian army how their water baptism worked out for them. Oh, and the Israelites went through the Red Sea on DRY ground. They were baptized all right. The word means an "identification". The Israelites were certainly identified with Moses, as their leader, the cloud, as their spiritual leader, and identified with God's provision of deliverance FROM the literal waters of the Red Sea.

Do you understand the difference between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism? Mark 1:8 shows the difference.

Oh, and please ask the entire human race in Noah's day about water baptism and how that worked out for them. Noah and his family were saved FROM THE LITERAL WATER of the flood.


Better to start with the verses I've provided above. And Acts 2:38 was only specific and relevant for the Jews were were present at Christ's crucifixion.

If water baptism were necessary for salvation, Paul wouldn't have written this:

1 Cor 1:17 - For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

No evangelist would make such a claim IF water baptism was necessary for soul salvation.

All of the various water baptisms are a RITUAL which reveals an identification. No salvation.

When a person is baptized with the Holy Spirit, THAT is salvation.

Wrong.

Scripture....Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.....

 

[peldom10]

1 Peter 3:20-21
“...God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”


I believe the water mentioned in 1 Peter 3:20-21 pertains to water baptism for the following reasons:

1.The water was the means God used to carry Noah and his family to safety. The sin of the world was washed away in the flood waters. The like figure or antitype is the NT water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

2. Notice verse 21 makes specific mention of the process having nothing to do with the removal of filth from the flesh. (This is a reference to bath water) Thus, the comment points to a spiritual transaction taking place.

3. The scripture mentions that baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Our own behavior, and in this particular case getting baptized, is what prompts a good conscience. The result is to be free of guilt. God is the giver of the Holy Ghost and we have no control over that other than asking for Him to give it.

4. Lastly, the scripture specifies this is only made possible by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Cleansed by water...not saved.....that's God's determination after death and by His judgement.

 

[KelbyofGod]

There is no water baptism in the below story . . . not a drop. Peter and John were teaching at night . . . yet many men, not counting women and children believed and were added to the "number" that day. Where is the water, and why isn't it mentioned?

Acts 4:1-4 NLT - "While Peter and John were speaking to the people, they were confronted by the priests, the captain of the Temple guard, and some of the Sadducees. These leaders were very disturbed that Peter and John were teaching the people that through Jesus there is a resurrection of the dead. They arrested them and, since it was already evening, put them in jail until morning. 4 But many of the people who heard their message believed it, so the number of believers now totaled about 5,000 men, not counting women and children."

Baptism was a basic part of becoming a disciple, both under John the baptist AND under Jesus.

This is manifest not only at the beginning of Jesus' earthly ministry...:
John 4:1-2 KJV
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, [2] (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

But also at the end of his earthly ministry...:
Mark 16:16-17 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

And continued to be the case after his ascension as manifested by both Peter and Paul...:
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 19:4-6 KJV
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

In addition to supporting the idea that baptism is an integral part of discipleship throughout Jesus' and his apostles' ministries, these last three also contain (or make direct reference) to the other aspect of basic salvation... the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which comes with speaking in tongues. to tie it to the first reference about John, a person can look at ANY of the 4 gospel accounts to see john specifically state that he indeed baptizes with water but he that comes after him (Jesus) baptizes with the Holy Ghost. That's why Jesus never baptized anyone with water, lest someone get confused. But that can be more thoroughly discussed in another thread to avoid cluttering this one

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

It was the ark Noah and his family that saves them. It's not the water.

I really like this your post, probably because it's such a short and direct statement. But I somewhat disagree with the conclusion. This explanation will be heavy so please bear with me...

The ark was irrelevant without the water.

The water was the cleansing element to remove corruption from the earth. Without the flood, Noah would have gotten into the ark in a corrupt world and would have gotten out of the ark in a corrupt world. The water was necessary as a cleansing element. IMO the ark represents God's power to keep a person through the cleansing/judgement (if the persons submit to the prescribed solution) even if the cleansing element seems inescapable and world-destroying.

I think Jesus' complete trust & obedience to the Father (his complete submission to the prescribed solution) was his "ark" that kept him through the real element that captures, removes and destroys sin. That real element is death and the subsequent burning that captures and destroys all sin and those who are attached to those sins.

Jesus went down into death with the sins of the world (satisfying death's purpose to remove & destroy sins). But Jesus was brought up again by the power of God because he was NOT attached to those sins. He left the sins behind and rose to go on to a life forever free from sin.

Jesus was required to do the real... and we are required to do the likeness that symbolizes that real thing he did. This is detailed in
Romans 6:3-5 KJV:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"​

I highlighted the "IF" because only IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death shall we be in the likeness of his resurrection. Otherwise we have no right to it and would be cast out of the marriage feast like the man in Matthew 22:11-14 KJV

"And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: [12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. [13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [14] For many are called, but few are chosen."​

Jesus (at his own baptism) clarified that baptism is not a work, but a righteousness that we are to fulfil. It's a putting off of any righteousness WE may have claimed (filthy rags), and instead submitting to the righteousness that is prescribed, provided and required by God...IF we want to pass through death unscathed and uncaptured.

Matthew 3:14-17 KJV

"But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? [15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. [16] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."​

And just as the ark may have seemed foolish and unnecessary to some in Noah's day, so does baptism seem unnecessary to some in this day.

That was a lot. I pray all are open to receive. @Wansvic

Love in Jesus,
Kelby