Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[BillG]

There will surely be differences in the good works produced by God in a person, but I would say even a believer who has suffered severe trauma will produce some level of good works.

The thief on the cross testified - I would call that a good work.

I totally agree.
That was the point I was trying to make but I felt you were not making that point.

Paul says in Ephesians 2:8,9 that salvation is by grace through faith, and is not of works. A true faith will produce works, of differing amounts, but if there are no works then there is no faith. And nowhere in Scripture is salvation said to be by faith alone

I focused on "If no works then no faith"
Thinking short term rather than longer term.
Sorry if I have misunderstood what you were saying.

Thanks for clarifying that a believer who has suffered severe trauma will produce some level of good works.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Oh, please stop. I just proved that salvation is permanent.

But one has to believe what Jesus said to agree with this.

With John 5:24 and 10:28, Jesus taught that salvation is permanent. What do you think "shall never perish" means, if not eternal security?

As I've already explained, but you refuse to hear, is I agree no one can snatch His sheep from His hand—if indeed they're His sheep. However, a person can willingly turn their back on the Lord and forfeit any benefit they may have had previously. This is the only way a person can lose their salvation.

You quote verses like John 10:28 because it supports what you want to believe. But you you ignore the rest of scripture at your own peril. You've been fed false doctrine so long you can't comprehend that it can be any other way.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Here's the thing. NONE of those 1,000 verses teach what you claim they teach. You simply misunderstand them.

John 5:24 and 10:28 prove your claim is wrong, unbiblical.

Eternal life is received WHEN one believes in Christ per John 5:24 and the result of possessing eternal life is that the recipient shall never perish, per John 10:28.

Now, since you disagree, you need to address each of these 2 very clear verses that anyone can read and understand and show me where my error is.

Then I'm right. You've already made up your mind. . .LOL I'm going to stop talking to you now.

 

[ResidentAlien]

That might seem right to you, to the natural mind it does. But the righteousness of God is different. Deliberate sin may bring chastening, even death but it can never bring damnation.

Evmur, go read Hebrews and then report back. On some things you have great understanding but on others you need some help.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I've already explained, but you refuse to hear, is I agree no one can snatch His sheep from His hand—if indeed they're His sheep. However, a person can willingly turn their back on the Lord and forfeit any benefit they may have had previously. This is the only way a person can lose their salvation.

You quote verses like John 10:28 because it supports what you want to believe. But you you ignore the rest of scripture at your own peril. You've been fed false doctrine so long you can't comprehend that it can be any other way.

Then that person never had ETERNAL LIFE. And God is a liar.

You can;t forfeit what you could never earn in the first place. If you could It was never a gift to be freely given it was a reward or wage which had to be earned.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Hey all, we should have changed the title of the thread into " Work salvationist debunked"

No, the title's correct. This is pretty much the response I expect, a majority of people defending false doctrine. But just because the majority believes something doesn't make it right. "Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many there are who find it."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Evmur, go read Hebrews and then report back. On some things you have great understanding but on others you need some help.

Same could be said of you my friend.

 

[BillG]

As I've already explained, but you refuse to hear, is I agree no one can snatch His sheep from His hand—if indeed they're His sheep. However, a person can willingly turn their back on the Lord and forfeit any benefit they may have had previously. This is the only way a person can lose their salvation.

You quote verses like John 10:28 because it supports what you want to believe. But you you ignore the rest of scripture at your own peril. You've been fed false doctrine so long you can't comprehend that it can be any other way.

You quote verses to support what you want to believe as well.

It's no different is it?

Interesting "If indeed they were his sheep"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, the title's correct. This is pretty much the response I expect, a majority of people defending false doctrine. But just because the majority believes something doesn't make it right. "Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many there are who find it."

The broad way is exactly what you are teaching. 99 % of worlds religion teach what you teach. That we are saved by what we do. Not as a gift of God based on his work.

 

[BillG]

Then I'm right. You've already made up your mind. . .LOL I'm going to stop talking to you now.

Very mature.

Your strap line.

"Love is patient love is kind"

 

[ResidentAlien]

As always, the confusion arises from the definition of salvation. I note that OSAS critics never quote verses that support OSAS, of which there are many. If you want to know what I mean, ask me. I've been over this too many times to be bothered any more. In summary, you are wrong.

Okay, noted. "Narrow is the road that leads to life and few there be who find it." I'm happy being one of the few, even if I am wrong.

 

[BillG]

As I've already explained, but you refuse to hear, is I agree no one can snatch His sheep from His hand—if indeed they're His sheep. However, a person can willingly turn their back on the Lord and forfeit any benefit they may have had previously. This is the only way a person can lose their salvation.

You quote verses like John 10:28 because it supports what you want to believe. But you you ignore the rest of scripture at your own peril. You've been fed false doctrine so long you can't comprehend that it can be any other way.

As have you.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I take comfort in knowing you'll answer for calling God's words demonic.

And shall leave you to work, work, work, work, work, work, all your living life in the hopes at the end and at your last breath you've worked hard enough to be saved.

My Jesus didn't teach that. Good luck with yours.

All your scripture quotes on this matter can be unpicked.

For eg Revelations 20.21 this is the Great White throne Judgement and corresponds with the sheeps and goats. But it is SECOND resurrection. We belong to the FIRST resurrection "blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.

We have already been raised, raptured [so shall we ever be with the Lord] we will have reigned with Him during a thousand years, passed over from judgement to life. God will bring us with Him when He comes to judge. There is no way that those being judged for their deeds are the church. Nor can the righteous sheep be the church.

I believe in THE WIDER MERCY.

Evmur, you're missing the forest for the trees—as are all the rest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay, noted. "Narrow is the road that leads to life and few there be who find it." I'm happy being one of the few, even if I am wrong.

Once again,

The gate you are entering is not the narrow gate.

That narrow gate is Christ alone through faith alone.

The wide gate, is works (of which there are many differences, which makes it the majority gospel. Which is no gospel at all

 

[ResidentAlien]

Paul says in Ephesians 2:8,9 that salvation is by grace through faith, and is not of works. A true faith will produce works, of differing amounts, but if there are no works then there is no faith. And nowhere in Scripture is salvation said to be by faith alone.

While I do not agree with those that teach a "salvation by faith alone" gospel, I would not say it is a "different" gospel or a demonic one. Most times those holding to this doctrine have a solid basis in believing in Jesus Christ for salvation: that is the core of the gospel (good news). But I do concur that this doctrine is in error and is dangerous in that it can lead to mediocrity, lukewarmness, and a constant struggle with assurance of salvation.

Again, another one picking and choosing their scriptures.

Look, I don't have a dog in this race. Personally, I wish OSAS were true. Then I could have my fire insurance and go on with my life the way I want and know in the end I'll make it in by the seat of my pants.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, another one picking and choosing their scriptures.

Look, I don't have a dog in this race. Personally, I wish OSAS were true. Then I could have my fire insurance and then go on with my life the way I want and know in the end I'll make it in by the seat of my pants.

OSAS does not teach you can go live your life anyway you want.

first thing you may want to do is figure out what those who trust in Christ alone and believe eternal life is eternal and are secure in Christ actually believe Before you try to attack something you have no knowledge of.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As I've already explained, but you refuse to hear

Oh, I'm hearing you loud and clear.

I agree no one can snatch His sheep from His hand—if indeed they're His sheep. However, a person can willingly turn their back on the Lord and forfeit any benefit they may have had previously. This is the only way a person can lose their salvation.

It is you who are not hearing. John 10:28,29 doesn't say no other person. It says "no one". That means no person.

Are you a person? The verses teach that EVEN YOU cannot give it away.

When you believed, were you given the gift of eternal life? YES. John 5:24

Can you, a recipient of eternal life, EVER perish? NO John 10:28

You quote verses like John 10:28 because it supports what you want to believe.

Actually, I believe exactly what it says, unlike yourself.

But you you ignore the rest of scripture at your own peril.

So it seems you don't really believe what Jesus said then. That recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

You've been fed false doctrine so long you can't comprehend that it can be any other way.

Then teach me what Jesus was so clearly teaching in John 5:24 and 10:28.

That means exegete both verses and show how they refute my view.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Then I'm right. You've already made up your mind. . .LOL I'm going to stop talking to you now.

Mostly, you know I have verses that you cannot explain. So you take the easy road out; cease discussion.

What part of "recipients of eternal life shall never perish" do you not understand?

 

[Chester]

Again, another one picking and choosing their scriptures.

Look, I don't have a dog in this race. Personally, I wish OSAS were true. Then I could have my fire insurance and go on with my life the way I want and know in the end I'll make it in by the seat of my pants.

Wow! I am glad OSAS is not true and I have no wish that it were true. I have no desire to go on with my life "the way I want" and to just make it by the seat of my pants! LOL!

 

[ResidentAlien]

The letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2 & 3 are to saved people. Yet the only promises He makes to any of them are to those who overcome. He doesn't say "to those who are truly saved I promise this or that, but you are are unsaved had better get save pretty quick or it won't go well for you."

I'm sure there a lot of creative ways to wiggle around this one. Who wants to go first?