How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

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#541
Dec 20, 2017
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eternally-gratefull said:
you have to look for things in common. There is nothing in common between the two events. In the one he meets us in the clouds in the other we come back with him as he comes to earth with his robe dipped by m blood and he puts feet on the ground
one is for the resurrection the other is for judgment
I am just showing you the differences I see. And why I think they are different.
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I see his return throughout prophecy. I see the comming of Messiah foretold as a process with many elements
one of which is our resurrection & gathering to join him as he returns. Because the story is primarily focussed on HIM
the narrow point of our resurrection is not always in frame. Just as I would expect.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#542
#542
Lucy-Pevensie said:
I see his return throughout prophecy. I see the comming of Messiah foretold as a process with many elements
one of which is our resurrection & gathering to join him as he returns. Because the story is primarily focussed on HIM
the narrow point of our resurrection is not always in frame. Just as I would expect.
Click to expand...
Again
one is imminent. One is not
One is like a thief. The other will come as no suprise
One is to redirect. One is to judge

Take this with the fact you have resurrected saints who have been judged and given their reward when the seals are opened

You have the bema seat judgment which must come between the rapture and the return with robes of righteousness

You have no one known when he will return to Everyone will know when he will return
there is just to much to Answer which in my 3 decades of studying this my favorite topic next to the gospel and history no One has given me an answer I can honestly say makes sense
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#543
Dec 20, 2017
9,265
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#543
eternally-gratefull said:
Again
one is imminent. One is not
One is like a thief. The other will come as no suprise
One is to redirect. One is to judge

Take this with the fact you have resurrected saints who have been judged and given their reward when the seals are opened

You have the bema seat judgment which must come between the rapture and the return with robes of righteousness

You have no one known when he will return to Everyone will know when he will return
there is just to much to Answer which in my 3 decades of studying this my favorite topic next to the gospel and history no One has given me an answer I can honestly say makes sense
Click to expand...
I'm not going to throw away the harmony of scripture for a list of dogmatic constraints.
All prophecy flows together and tells the same story. The extra-biblical dogma doesn't.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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#544
Aug 3, 2018
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Jamison said:
REV14:14 meet the LORD in the air on the cloud. harvest, voice of an angel. loud, angels are the reapers. the first fruits already gone up, to ever be with him , virgins, (not witnesses) servants.
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Which "harvest"?? (there is more than one "harvest" in Scripture" and in nature)

Which "firstfruit"?? (there is more than one "firstfruit" in Scripture and in nature; Leviticus 23 mentions TWO distinct "firstfruit"; James 1:18 says that we are "a KIND of firstfruit". Which "kind," and regarding which "harvest"??)





--the "WHEAT" is harvested by means of a "tribulum" [harvesting imlplement];

--the EARLIER harvest, however, by means of tossing up INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff










P.S. welcome to CC... hope to see you around the boards = )
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#545
#545
Lucy-Pevensie said:
I'm not going to throw away the harmony of scripture for a list of dogmatic constraints.
All prophecy flows together and tells the same story. The extra-biblical dogma doesn't.
Click to expand...
I am not either. Time post trib throws scripture out of harmony for the reasons I stated.

We will just have to disagree
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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Jan 19, 2019
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#548
ewq1938 said:
There is a verse that speaks of "sottish children" which isn't a word that is commonly known or used anymore but it means "foolish".

Newer translations do not use the word sottish. There's a lot more but this is the only one I recall ATM.
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What I am getting at is this:

Do you believe that the first KJV Bible was 100% flawless as a translation?
 
walknlight

walknlight

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Nov 17, 2017
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Nehemiah6 said:
That is plainly nonsensical. "No rapture" in the key passage which reveals the Resurrection/Rapture! Amazing how people will try to twist the Scriptures to fit their man-made theologies.
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Agreed!

The question I ask and cant seem to get and answer to is this:

The tribulation period is the wrath of God on mankind?

FACT:

God's "children" ARE NOT subject to His wrath.

" For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."



God Bless!
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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#550
rayzor said:
The law that's talk about in that scripture is gods spirit
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No. The "law" is the Torah (the first 5 books of the Hebrew Scriptures.
rayzor said:
So you believe that money is the answer to all things just because its written in the bible?
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No, I don't believe this because I am not a senseless ruler.
Solomon is explaining how lazy, drunk, irresponsible rulers live and think.
If you ignore this context, I can see why you think Solomon agrees with this worldly principle. If you read his proverbs, you will see that he clearly does not.

Did you know the Bible also says "there is no God"?
(with context) "the fool says in his heart 'there is no God'".

Context matters.
 
R

rayzor

Banned
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Aug 20, 2021
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Diakonos said:
No. The "law" is the Torah (the first 5 books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

No, I don't believe this because I am not a senseless ruler.
Solomon is explaining how lazy, drunk, irresponsible rulers live and think.
If you ignore this context, I can see why you think Solomon agrees with this worldly principle. If you read his proverbs, you will see that he clearly does not.

Did you know the Bible also says "there is no God"?
(with context) "the fool says in his heart 'there is no God'".

Context matters.
Click to expand...
Diakonos Your going by the dictionary...I,m speaking grace...o how we love the law [The law is Jesus mom the spirit]....Because of pride u go academic.. me 2 sometimes.:(
The word Torah is found in the [law the prophets & writings] Last time it was used was in the old testament Malachi Remember ye the law H8451 of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments......Jesus is the fulfilling of the law? Remember & not 2 do away with the torah but 2 fulfill it.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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#552
rayzor said:
Diakonos Your going by the dictionary...I,m speaking grace...o how we love the law [The law is Jesus mom the spirit]....Because of pride u go academic.. me 2 sometimes.:(
The word Torah is found in the [law the prophets & writings] Last time it was used was in the old testament Malachi Remember ye the law H8451 of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments......Jesus is the fulfilling of the law? Remember & not 2 do away with the torah but 2 fulfill it.
Click to expand...
This is all really interesting...but has nothing to do with Ecclesiastes 11:19, which you applied in error.

Going back to the inerrancy of the Bible. Every word of it came out of God's mouth. Since He cannot lie, He cannot contradict Himself...meaning the human writers of the Bible were writing something that did not contradict itself. So if someone translates a verse in such a way that it contradicts other clear Scripture, then that translation is incorrect. Correct translations of words will never contradict the rest of the Scripture. It is perfect. it is flawless. It is without error. It is consistent. It is sharp and alive. And it is not imprisoned.

This is why Paul told Titus to appoint elders in the churches who could "exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict" (Titus 2-9).
Those whose teaching contradicts God's word are unfit for the task.
Their teachings are dangerous to "the sheep of His pasture" (Ps 100:3, John 10:16).
 
R

rayzor

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Diakonos said:
This is all really interesting...but has nothing to do with Ecclesiastes 11:19, which you applied in error.

Going back to the inerrancy of the Bible. Every word of it came out of God's mouth. Since He cannot lie, He cannot contradict Himself...meaning the human writers of the Bible were writing something that did not contradict itself. So if someone translates a verse in such a way that it contradicts other clear Scripture, then that translation is incorrect. Correct translations of words will never contradict the rest of the Scripture. It is perfect. it is flawless. It is without error. It is consistent. It is sharp and alive. And it is not imprisoned.

This is why Paul told Titus to appoint elders in the churches who could "exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict" (Titus 2-9).
Those whose teaching contradicts God's word are unfit for the task.
Their teachings are dangerous to "the sheep of His pasture" (Ps 100:3, John 10:16).
Click to expand...
Diakonos Ecclesiastes 11:19, thanks 4 that vs.That's the fallecy Their teachings are dangerous to "the sheep of His pasture..no their dangerous to our so called enemy..It shall be said at the right time. There is no enchantment against Jacob
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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#554
rayzor said:
@Diakonos Ecclesiastes 11:19, thanks 4 that vs.That's the fallecy Their teachings are dangerous to "the sheep of His pasture..no their dangerous to our so called enemy..It shall be said at the right time. There is no enchantment against Jacob
Click to expand...
This is indescernable. Can you rephrase all of this?
 
R

rayzor

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R

rayzor

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#556
u see with their puny gentile mind they would judge us thus them self's.With the measure u judge others u judge yourself.
 
T

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#559
eternally-gratefull said:
you have to look for things in common. There is nothing in common between the two events. In the one he meets us in the clouds in the other we come back with him as he comes to earth with his robe dipped by m blood and he puts feet on the ground
one is for the resurrection the other is for judgment
I am just showing you the differences I see. And why I think they are different.
Click to expand...
That is just the opinion someone taught you by book or in person.
 
T

TheLearner

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#560
eternally-gratefull said:
Again
one is imminent. One is not
One is like a thief. The other will come as no suprise
One is to redirect. One is to judge

Take this with the fact you have resurrected saints who have been judged and given their reward when the seals are opened

You have the bema seat judgment which must come between the rapture and the return with robes of righteousness

You have no one known when he will return to Everyone will know when he will return
there is just to much to Answer which in my 3 decades of studying this my favorite topic next to the gospel and history no One has given me an answer I can honestly say makes sense
Click to expand...
1 Thessalonians 4

Easy-to-Read Version



A Life That Pleases God
4 Brothers and sisters, now I have some other things to tell you. We taught you how to live in a way that will please God. And you are living that way. Now we ask and encourage you in the Lord Jesus to live that way more and more. 2 You know all that we told you to do by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 God wants you to be holy. He wants you to stay away from sexual sins. 4 God wants each one of you to learn to control your own body. Use your body in a way that is holy and that gives honor to God.[a] 5 Don’t let your sexual desires control you like the people who don’t know God. 6 Never wrong any of your fellow believers or cheat them in this way. The Lord will punish those who do that. We have already told you this and warned you about it. 7 God chose us to be holy. He does not want us to live in sin. 8 So anyone who refuses to obey this teaching is refusing to obey God, not us. And God is the one who gives you his Holy Spirit.
9 We don’t need to write to you about having love for your brothers and sisters in Christ. God has already taught you to love each other. 10 In fact, you love all the believers in Macedonia. We encourage you now, brothers and sisters, to show your love more and more.
11 Do all you can to live a peaceful life. Mind your own business, and earn your own living, as we told you before. 12 If you do these things, then those who are not believers will respect the way you live. And you will not have to depend on others for what you need.
The Lord’s Coming
13 Brothers and sisters, we want you to know about those who have died. We don’t want you to be sad like other people—those who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died, but we also believe that he rose again. So we believe that God will raise to life through Jesus any who have died and bring them together with him when he comes.
15 What we tell you now is the Lord’s own message. Those of us who are still living when the Lord comes again will join him, but not before those who have already died. 16 The Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. And the people who have died and were in Christ will rise first. 17 After that we who are still alive at that time will be gathered up with those who have died. We will be taken up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.
Footnotes
  1. 1 Thessalonians 4:4 Or “God wants each of you to learn to live with your wife in a way that is holy and that gives honor to God.”

1 Thessalonians 5

Easy-to-Read Version



Be Ready for the Lord’s Coming
5 Now, brothers and sisters, we don’t need to write to you about times and dates. 2 You know very well that the day when the Lord comes again will be a surprise, like a thief who comes at night. 3 People will say, “We have peace and we are safe.” At that time destruction will come to them quickly, like the pains of a woman giving birth. And those people will not escape.
4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not living in darkness. And so that day will not surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all people who belong to the light. You belong to the day. We don’t belong to the night or to darkness. 6 So we should not be like other people. We should not be sleeping. We should be awake and have self-control. 7 People who sleep, sleep at night. People who drink too much, drink at night. 8 But we belong to the day, so we should control ourselves. We should wear faith and love to protect us. And the hope of salvation should be our helmet.
9 God did not choose us to suffer his anger. God chose us to have salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 Jesus died for us so that we can live together with him. It is not important if we are alive or dead when Jesus comes. 11 So encourage each other and help each other grow stronger in faith, just as you are already doing.
Final Instructions and Greetings
12 Now brothers and sisters, we ask you to recognize the value of those who work hard among you—those who, as followers of the Lord, care for you and tell you how to live. 13 Show them the highest respect and love because of the work they do.
Live in peace with each other. 14 We ask you, brothers and sisters, to warn those who will not work. Encourage those who are afraid. Help those who are weak. Be patient with everyone. 15 Be sure that no one pays back wrong for wrong. But always try to do what is good for each other and for all people.
16 Always be full of joy. 17 Never stop praying. 18 Whatever happens, always be thankful. This is how God wants you to live in Christ Jesus.
19 Don’t stop the work of the Holy Spirit. 20 Don’t treat prophecy like something that is not important. 21 But test everything. Keep what is good, 22 and stay away from everything that is evil.
23 We pray that God himself, the God of peace, will make you pure—belonging only to him. We pray that your whole self—spirit, soul, and body—will be kept safe and be blameless when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. 24 The one who chose you will do that for you. You can trust him.
25 Brothers and sisters, please pray for us. 26 Give all the brothers and sisters the special greeting of God’s people.[a] 27 I tell you by the authority of the Lord to read this letter to all the believers there. 28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Footnotes
  1. 1 Thessalonians 5:26 the special greeting of God’s people Literally, “a holy kiss.”
 
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