The Falling Away - Is this the rapture?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
2,111
113
#41
G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
Thayer Definition:
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647
Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88
Thayer ^ actually points back to Winer's :

[quoting]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία
ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, ἡ (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις [apostasis]; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).


[end quoting - https://biblehub.com/greek/646.htm ; bold mine and bracket mine, for clarity]




So your source "Thayer" is saying the same thing that "Winer's" is saying, as Thayer references it, see. :geek: Hello!!




You're simply making up fluffy arguments that carry no weight whatsoever, you're that desperate to avoid the actual meaning of this text in 2Th2. ;)


____________


It is NOT TRUE that "no scholars" view it this way.

Hogwash.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
113
#42
It has been strongly suggested that the "falling away" as spoken by the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is the pre-trib rapture.
We who are His Body, as Belonging to Christ, must know the His answer from His Word so as not to be decieved.

When the Disciples asked our Lord Jesus Christ about His Return(the Second Coming) He gave this immediate Commandment & Warning.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. - Matthew 24: 3-4

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 2:1-4

The Apostle Paul combines the clear warning of the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 with His Second Coming and the "Falling Away".

So is the "falling away" = the departure in the form of a pre-trib rapture or is it a "falling away" a departure from truth = the Gospel?
Let no one deceive you by any means;

for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 2:1-4

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if a wicked spirit takes its place on the throne in a persons heart , the spirit becomes their God sitting in his temple ( the man ) and that spirit with its internal nature exalts itself inside the persons mind and heart above all else

“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,

but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just a consideration the falling away in my view is falling away from the gospel and the love Christ teaches us to have and operate in by his spirit. And the man of sin revealing himself is when we receive the spirit of the world who sits on the temple ( the man ) and serve sin by that spirit rather than God by his spirit living in his temple ( the man )

I think to look at the spiritual aspect in the New Testament at least for me , thkngs like the temple not being a building anymore but being the individual helps me at least consider things I hadn’t before and surprisingly makes a lot of the mysterious become known
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
#43
"apostasia" is the SAME word as "apostasis" ... meaning, "a standing away from [away from a previous standing]" or "departure"... [i.e. apo stasis]... according to Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon (1871)... I posted that link before...
FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!!





The info you are providing is NOT what Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon says about apostasia. TDW is taking a definition from another word (apostasis) and forcing it into the definition of apostasia. A word being a later form of another word is same as saying a word has a root word. This DOES NOT mean the two words share same definition! They DON'T! This is deceptive and dishonest. Do not believe what TDW is saying here. It is false information!





FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!!






.... AS WELL AS according to the following Greek Grammar (source):


[quoting]

"A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament: Regarded as a Sure Basis" by George Benedikt Winer (pgs 24-25):

"d) Many words which had long been in use received a new form or pronunciation by which the older was in most cases superceded: as [...] apostasia (apostasis, Lob. p. 528), [...]"



[found on pgs 24-25]

-- https://books.google.com/books?id=i7kC8UOe-4cC&pg=PA24&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=true



This is also false. apostasia (apostasis, Lob. p. 528) does not appear with the words "Many words which had long been in use received a new form or pronunciation by which the older was in most cases superceded:"

This is a deceptive post. BEWARE.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
#44
Thayer ^ actually points back to Winer's :

[quoting]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία
ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, ἡ (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις [apostasis]; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).


[end quoting - https://biblehub.com/greek/646.htm ; bold mine and bracket mine, for clarity]




So your source "Thayer" is saying the same thing that "Winer's" is saying, as Thayer references it, see. :geek: Hello!!




You're simply making up fluffy arguments that carry no weight whatsoever, you're that desperate to avoid the actual meaning of this text in 2Th2. ;)


____________


It is NOT TRUE that "no scholars" view it this way.

Hogwash.

You are misreading and misusing that:

STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία

ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, ἡ (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

It clearly says that 2 Thess 2:3 has word Apostasia which means a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion

Apostasia is a later form of an earlier word, Apostasis so no surprise that "used that word because Apostasia didn't exist yet. That doesn't change that Apostasia has a different definition and meaning that Apostasis does.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#45
Thayer ^ actually points back to Winer's :

[quoting]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία
ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, ἡ (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36:(29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις [apostasis]; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).


[end quoting - https://biblehub.com/greek/646.htm ; bold mine and bracket mine, for clarity]




So your source "Thayer" is saying the same thing that "Winer's" is saying, as Thayer references it, see. :geek: Hello!!




You're simply making up fluffy arguments that carry no weight whatsoever, you're that desperate to avoid the actual meaning of this text in 2Th2. ;)


____________


It is NOT TRUE that "no scholars" view it this way.

Hogwash.
Are you unable or unwilling to accept the Truth? The Lord Jesus said "Thy word is Truth".

Is it more important to you to strive over words instead of accepting the clear Word of Truth?

The Apostle John rebukes anyone who changes the direct meaning of the falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 in his letter to us on the very same subject.
i suggest you go find it and heed his words as he was given the Authority on the matter and over all of us here and throughout the world.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#46
FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!!





The info you are providing is NOT what Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon says about apostasia. TDW is taking a definition from another word (apostasis) and forcing it into the definition of apostasia. A word being a later form of another word is same as saying a word has a root word. This DOES NOT mean the two words share same definition! They DON'T! This is deceptive and dishonest. Do not believe what TDW is saying here. It is false information!





FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!! FRAUD ALERT!!!!








This is also false. apostasia (apostasis, Lob. p. 528) does not appear with the words "Many words which had long been in use received a new form or pronunciation by which the older was in most cases superceded:"

This is a deceptive post. BEWARE.
What Mr.Twister and others are attempting to do is forbidden by God (Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18-19).

This practice of changing Scripture is a part of the "falling away".

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
#47
A post tribulation rapture? How would there be anyone left for the kingdom age?
The rapture takes the living saints up to clouds of Earth to meet Christ. Christ will descend to Armageddon to battle the beast and after that he will bring the raptured saints to Your question, "How would there be anyone left for the kingdom age?" is nonsensical. The world will be full of former deceived who will be ruled over for a 1000 years and all raptured saints and resurrected dead in will populate the world.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
#48
What Mr.Twister and others are attempting to do is forbidden by God (Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18-19).

This practice of changing Scripture is a part of the "falling away".

It's still funny and ironic how they use a word that means Apostasy and try to errantly change it to mean rapture. Without even knowing it they want to commit Apostasy and this is exactly how the Apostasy happens! It's already here just waiting for the man sin to show up. We have a huge amount of Christians praying to take part in the Apostasia and sadly, they will have a part in it. I thank God that my eyes are open can see this terrible error.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#49
It's still funny and ironic how they use a word that means Apostasy and try to errantly change it to mean rapture. Without even knowing it they want to commit Apostasy and this is exactly how the Apostasy happens! It's already here just waiting for the man sin to show up. We have a huge amount of Christians praying to take part in the Apostasia and sadly, they will have a part in it. I thank God that my eyes are open can see this terrible error.
Amen, Amen and AMEN
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
8,109
113
#50
It has been strongly suggested that the "falling away" as spoken by the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is the pre-trib rapture.
We who are His Body, as Belonging to Christ, must know the His answer from His Word so as not to be decieved.

When the Disciples asked our Lord Jesus Christ about His Return(the Second Coming) He gave this immediate Commandment & Warning.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. - Matthew 24: 3-4

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 2:1-4

The Apostle Paul combines the clear warning of the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 with His Second Coming and the "Falling Away".

So is the "falling away" = the departure in the form of a pre-trib rapture or is it a "falling away" a departure from truth = the Gospel?
<<It has been strongly suggested that the "falling away" as spoken by the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is the pre-trib rapture.>>

Undoubtedly the passage DOES INDEED speak to the pre-trib rapture. The LOGICAL INFERENCE is that the Thessalonians were greatly distressed because false teachers had told them that the DOTL had commenced, contrary to Paul's earlier oral teaching (v.5) that they WOULD NOT be present ON THE EARTH for the time of God's wrath aka the DOTL aka the 70th week of Daniel.

v. 2 "not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. "
v. 2 makes little sense, and is unnecessary....IF CHRISTIANS DO INDEED GO THOUGH THE TRIBULATION. Why be alarmed at the inevitable necessity of going through wrath, which they were earlier taught? Rather than being distressed, they should be filled with JOYFUL ANTICIPATION. And this concern need NEVER BE BROACHED. Nor the concomitant correction and clarification.

Paul then reiterates in codified form the necessary sequence of events:
v. 3 "he" (THE definite article) "apostasia" (DEPARTURE noun) "proton" (FIRST adj)
So we have an audience of (HOLY, JUSTIFIED BLAMELESS) Christians, "a leaving, from a previous standing." THEN comes the BIRTH PANG/MOS/DOTL.

Then consider vv. 6&7:
"And now you know what is restraining, that He may be revealed in his own time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."
Again we have the Holy Spirit and a situation where "out of the midst he might be gone".....THEN THE DOTL COMMENCES.

I think these two cases are parallel concepts, placed in proximity with intent.

As for this erroneous claim that "apostasia" has anything to do with departing " FROM the faith", such an application would require a VERB, not a NOUN. And the terms "from the faith" are obviously absent.

Acts 21:21 seals the deal for me.
"They have been informed now about you that "apostasian" [NOUN] you teach from Moses......"

Again, "apostasian" is a noun. And remember, this is only the SECOND use of Strong's 646.
So in this case the Apostle Paul is TEACHING. Teaching what? Teaching departing from the faith, teaching apostasy?

NO. Paul is certainly teaching "a leaving, from a previous standing." FROM apostate Judaism TO the faith. NOT FROM THE FAITH BUT TO THE FAITH BY THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL!

Acts 21:21 turns this ridiculous notion that Strong's 646 DEMANDS an interpretation of "falling away from the faith" on its ear. I can mean JUST THE OPPOSITE!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,561
8,109
113
#51
It's still funny and ironic how they use a word that means Apostasy and try to errantly change it to mean rapture. Without even knowing it they want to commit Apostasy and this is exactly how the Apostasy happens! It's already here just waiting for the man sin to show up. We have a huge amount of Christians praying to take part in the Apostasia and sadly, they will have a part in it. I thank God that my eyes are open can see this terrible error.
No lol. Strong's #646 doesn't mean rapture. And it doesn't mean apostasy.

It means "a leaving, from a previous standing." Utterly and completely unconnected and unconcerned with faith, faithlessness, or any other spiritual concern.

Try to keep up my dear.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,981
1,261
113
#52
No lol. Strong's #646 doesn't mean rapture.
Your "scholar" TDW says it does.

And it doesn't mean apostasy.
Yes it does. Why would you say something so obviously wrong?

G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
Total KJV occurrences: 2



It means "a leaving, from a previous standing." Utterly and completely unconnected and unconcerned with faith, faithlessness, or any other spiritual concern.

Try to keep up my dear.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Your post is pure confusion.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#53
<<It has been strongly suggested that the "falling away" as spoken by the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is the pre-trib rapture.>>

Undoubtedly the passage DOES INDEED speak to the pre-trib rapture. The LOGICAL INFERENCE is that the Thessalonians were greatly distressed because false teachers had told them that the DOTL had commenced, contrary to Paul's earlier oral teaching (v.5) that they WOULD NOT be present ON THE EARTH for the time of God's wrath aka the DOTL aka the 70th week of Daniel.

v. 2 "not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. "
v. 2 makes little sense, and is unnecessary....IF CHRISTIANS DO INDEED GO THOUGH THE TRIBULATION. Why be alarmed at the inevitable necessity of going through wrath, which they were earlier taught? Rather than being distressed, they should be filled with JOYFUL ANTICIPATION. And this concern need NEVER BE BROACHED. Nor the concomitant correction and clarification.

Paul then reiterates in codified form the necessary sequence of events:
v. 3 "he" (THE definite article) "apostasia" (DEPARTURE noun) "proton" (FIRST adj)
So we have an audience of (HOLY, JUSTIFIED BLAMELESS) Christians, "a leaving, from a previous standing." THEN comes the BIRTH PANG/MOS/DOTL.

Then consider vv. 6&7:
"And now you know what is restraining, that He may be revealed in his own time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."
Again we have the Holy Spirit and a situation where "out of the midst he might be gone".....THEN THE DOTL COMMENCES.

I think these two cases are parallel concepts, placed in proximity with intent.

As for this erroneous claim that "apostasia" has anything to do with departing " FROM the faith", such an application would require a VERB, not a NOUN. And the terms "from the faith" are obviously absent.

Acts 21:21 seals the deal for me.
"They have been informed now about you that "apostasian" [NOUN] you teach from Moses......"

Again, "apostasian" is a noun. And remember, this is only the SECOND use of Strong's 646.
So in this case the Apostle Paul is TEACHING. Teaching what? Teaching departing from the faith, teaching apostasy?

NO. Paul is certainly teaching "a leaving, from a previous standing." FROM apostate Judaism TO the faith. NOT FROM THE FAITH BUT TO THE FAITH BY THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL!

Acts 21:21 turns this ridiculous notion that Strong's 646 DEMANDS an interpretation of "falling away from the faith" on its ear. I can mean JUST THE OPPOSITE!
All the talk in the world will never change what our Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Apostles said about the "falling away".

Wish all you want - there is no pre-trib rapture anywhere in Scripture and this is why we have Scripture = to refute lies.

If you want to be a man of God you must, like everyone, obey His Word and accept clear teaching from His words.

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
2,111
113
#54
[quoting] "A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament: Regarded as a Sure Basis" by George Benedikt Winer (pgs 24-25):

"d) Many words which had long been in use received a new form or pronunciation by which the older was in most cases superceded: as [...] apostasia (apostasis, Lob. p. 528), [...]"

[found on pgs 24-25] -- https://books.google.com/books?id=i7kC8UOe-4cC&pg=PA24&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=true
This is also false. apostasia (apostasis, Lob. p. 528) does not appear with the words "Many words which had long been in use received a new form or pronunciation by which the older was in most cases superceded:"

This is a deceptive post. BEWARE.
What you say here is not accurate.


The portion you quoted ^ is on page 24... then the LONG LIST OF WORDS WHICH FOLLOW that point continues onto page 25 where our word "apostasia" is located, in association WITH THE POINT HE JUST MADE (I snipped out [...] all those in-between words that were not pertinent to our discussion, to save space and condense the point).



Prove to me OTHERWISE.

From the source link I provided, since you say it's not there!


-- https://books.google.com/books?id=i7kC8UOe-4cC&pg=PA24&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=true

[Point "d)" starts toward the bottom of page 24, where the LISTING OF WORDS follows on from there onto page 25 (continuing) where the word "apostasia" is INCLUDED IN THIS LISTING pertaining to his point! ]
 
Last edited:

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
2,111
113
#55
cv5 said:
No lol. Strong's #646 doesn't mean rapture.
Your "scholar" TDW says it does.
The word means "DEPARTURE" (and in this case, 2Th2:3, it says "THE DEPARTURE").

I said CONTEXT determines just "WHAT KIND" of "departure" is MEANT.

And that the "definite article ['the']" serves a couple of FUNCTIONS that aid one in determining its meaning IN CONTEXT.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#56
The word means "DEPARTURE" (and in this case, 2Th2:3, it says "THE DEPARTURE").

I said CONTEXT determines just "WHAT KIND" of "departure" is MEANT.

And that the "definite article ['the']" serves a couple of FUNCTIONS that aid one in determining its meaning IN CONTEXT.
You have never been able able to post a single Scripture that says " His Bride/Church/Saints are pre-trib raptured.

The very fact that the Saints have been in tribulation since Genesis all the way thru to Revelation and today,
and our Lord Jesus Christ says:
These things I have spoken to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” John 16

Acts 14:21-22 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith,
and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

For your sake, i refer you to the Apostle John who completely agrees with the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#57
In what way are you saying that "he apostasia" (2Th2:3) is "idiomatic"?

How are you defining that word ^ (in bold)? What does that word mean?










____________

While you're at it (or perhaps any other readers), perhaps you can address my legit questions in a post I just made elsewhere:

Post #1260 - https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4660558
The representation of sound Expresses is whatever you think it expresses.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#58
No lol. Strong's #646 doesn't mean rapture. And it doesn't mean apostasy.

It means "a leaving, from a previous standing." Utterly and completely unconnected and unconcerned with faith, faithlessness, or any other spiritual concern.

Try to keep up my dear.
Look up G646 in any Strong's concordance. It means apostasy, cross reference Acts 21:21 also. This shouldn't even be a debate. 😳
 
S

SaltwaterGirl

Guest
#59
The word means "DEPARTURE" (and in this case, 2Th2:3, it says "THE DEPARTURE").

I said CONTEXT determines just "WHAT KIND" of "departure" is MEANT.

And that the "definite article ['the']" serves a couple of FUNCTIONS that aid one in determining its meaning IN CONTEXT.
APOSTASY is a departure from the Faith.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#60
Look up G646 in any Strong's concordance. It means apostasy, cross reference Acts 21:21 also. This shouldn't even be a debate. 😳
It shows the clear desperation that people will go through to hold unto an idol.