Our new relationship to the law.

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justbyfaith

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That the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts as believers is evident in Romans 5:5.

That this love is the fulfilling of the law is evident in Romans 13:8-10.
 

Blik

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Dec 6, 2016
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Jesus changed the law, but at the same time the law remained the same. Jesus explained in the Sermon on the Mt. when he said you have been told. Jesus said he did not change the law and prophets, but then Jesus said "but I tell you".

Jesus used the law not to murder to explain the difference, and Jesus did not say it was no longer so that we aren't to murder, but the law not to murder was given in our hearts. Our hearts are to contain love, so not to murder was to be done with love so it included not to harm anyone in any way, even such as calling a person a fool.

It applies to all law. To be circumcised changes from cutting foreskin to cutting out worldly flesh from our life. Not mixing fabrics because not mixing what is of the world with what is of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You forgot what is in the context.

2Co 3:1, Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2Co 3:2, Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3, Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
The ten commands were written in tablets of stone.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus changed the law, but at the same time the law remained the same. Jesus explained in the Sermon on the Mt. when he said you have been told. Jesus said he did not change the law and prophets, but then Jesus said "but I tell you".

Jesus used the law not to murder to explain the difference, and Jesus did not say it was no longer so that we aren't to murder, but the law not to murder was given in our hearts. Our hearts are to contain love, so not to murder was to be done with love so it included not to harm anyone in any way, even such as calling a person a fool.

It applies to all law. To be circumcised changes from cutting foreskin to cutting out worldly flesh from our life. Not mixing fabrics because not mixing what is of the world with what is of God.
Jesus did not change the law

He does not change his thinking
 

BroTan

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Sep 16, 2021
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No. To repent means to change our thinking, and agree with Gods thinking

God then changes us completing the work of sanctification in us

You can;t change yourself and just stop sinning and obaying Gods commands as required BY HIM. You do not have that power


first off. Baptism is the washing of our eternal soul. ALL sin is forgiven. You forget God is outsise of time. He died for every one of our sins. not just our past one
second, If you think you sin only on accident, You do not understand what sin is, Heb 10 is speaking of living as the world. Not individuate sin. You need to focus more on God and take your focus off yourself. Even at your best. You still are a sinner who falls short of Gods glory.
Gods standard is perfection. Neither you or I have or can meet that standard at this time.


If you obey ALL the law. yet stumble in one point. Your found guilty of the whole law

The law is there as a means to show you you are a sinner. Not to help you become a better person.

If your going to put yourself under law. You have fallen from Grace. It is time to again stop focusing on self. and to focus on God

We need to take the love God has given us and in turn share that love by Loving not only him, but everyone around us, Including our enemy. ONLY then can we be seen as living as God wants us to live

the pharisees lived by the letter. And they looked or acted nothing like christ. Because they were focused on the law. and self and how good they thought they were and not on God and others and what God really wants them to do (serve others)

When he confronted them. they crucified him
first off. Baptism is the washing of our eternal soul. ALL sin is forgiven. You forget God is outsise of time. He died for every one of our sins. not just our past one
second, If you think you sin only on accident, You do not understand what sin is, Heb 10 is speaking of living as the world. Not individuate sin. You need to focus more on God and take your focus off yourself. Even at your best. You still are a sinner who falls short of Gods glory.
Gods standard is perfection. Neither you or I have or can meet that standard at this time.
Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
 

Blik

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Dec 6, 2016
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Jesus did not change the law

He does not change his thinking
We agree. When Jesus said "you have been told" and then said "but I tell you" he did not change the real law, the spirit of the law.
 

BroTan

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Sep 16, 2021
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It is still good to pay tithes; while it is not required for salvation that a person obey the dietary laws in the OT.

That being said, I personally have made it a commitment that I will not eat anything that comes from shellfish or the pig; I have given those things up as a way of showing the Lord that I love him more than those things. But if I were to eat them, it would not have any effect on my salvation whatsoever.
For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:15-17) The Lord says' by the mouth of Isaiah that those that eat swine's flesh (pork) shall be consumed.

Just in case we have forgotten who this Lord is, let us go to II Thessalonians chapter one, and start at the sixth verse and we will see that it is Jesus that Isaiah is referring to and not the Father.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (II Thessalonians 1:6-9)

Note what the eighth verse states, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God." Paul was quoting Isaiah the 66th chapter and the 15th verse, where it states, "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." These individuals that receive the Lord's vengeance know Him not and obey not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. The dietary law is part of the commandments.
 

BroTan

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Sep 16, 2021
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Obeying the commandments is the result of having a genuine faith in Jesus Christ.

That being said, our justification and imputation of righteousness is apart from works (Romans 4:5-6); having its basis in God's forgiveness towards us (Romans 4:7-8); which does not come because of our works but rather is a direct result of God's grace alone.
That's true, but you still have to actually do those things that is require to have forgiveness. Paul say in Roman 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Now this is how faith and works start working together and walking in newness of life, doing all those things that are written to do. What did Jesus say in John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Let’s see who else you have to love, Jesus says in Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; People complain about the way the world is and won’t change themselves, to do the will of God. Pay attention to what Jesus says in Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. And that sword is the Word of God. Take a copy of this and past it around and look at people faces, because they have to clean themselves up. It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 

Blik

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Dec 6, 2016
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Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, )
I think it is very important that we know grace was a gift to mankind given the second it was needed because of sin entering in the world. Much of the Psalms speak of this grace, psalms written before Christ perfected grace.

We worship God, a God who gave us grace, not a God who withheld grace from man for 4,000 years until Christ came in the flesh. We must be sure the God we worship is the true God. See Lev. 17:11.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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The ten commands were written in tablets of stone.
And, under the New Covenant they are written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
Those sins that we commit five minutes from now, will be in the past five minutes and one second from now. And 1 John 1:9 will apply to them if we fulfill the condition of the promise.

Also, Romans 4:8 tells us that it is not only past sins that have been dealt with at the Cross. Also Romans 8:38-39 (as concerning sins that are in the present or the future) and Hebrews 9:12.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:15-17) The Lord says' by the mouth of Isaiah that those that eat swine's flesh (pork) shall be consumed.

Just in case we have forgotten who this Lord is, let us go to II Thessalonians chapter one, and start at the sixth verse and we will see that it is Jesus that Isaiah is referring to and not the Father.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (II Thessalonians 1:6-9)

Note what the eighth verse states, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God." Paul was quoting Isaiah the 66th chapter and the 15th verse, where it states, "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." These individuals that receive the Lord's vengeance know Him not and obey not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. The dietary law is part of the commandments.
This is what is written in the New Testament:

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4, For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5, For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1Ti 4:6, If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

Rom 14:14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Rom 14:20, For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

Luk 11:41, But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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That's true, but you still have to actually do those things that is require to have forgiveness.
All that is required to receive forgiveness is that you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead.

He will then proceed to do the work of sanctifying you by the power of the Holy Ghost.

It is not that He requires of you that you live holy in order to be forgiven; it is that when you are forgiven, you cannot help but begin to live holy because now, His Spirit has begun to dwell within you.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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And, under the New Covenant they are written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Eph 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
Water baptism never washed one sin away

You should really study acts 2. It des not say what you think. The modern english versions do not properly translate it.

When Jesus said I am saved. He means it

WHen John said I have eternal life. He means it

When jesus said I will never die. He means it

When paul said he took what was against me and contrary to me (the curse of the law) and nailed it to the cross. He meant it

This payment for past sin only is nonsensical. If Christ did nt also pay for your future sin, Your left staning with no means of savation once you commit that next sin. With no hope
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We agree. When Jesus said "you have been told" and then said "but I tell you" he did not change the real law, the spirit of the law.
He did not change the law

The law condemns you where you sit.

That was the purpose for why it was given

Sadly the jews missed that point. And it is sad but it appears you have also
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And, under the New Covenant they are written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
My friend. ALot more than ten commands are written on my heart.

THE TEN COMMANDS ARE THE LAW OF DEATH

Moses said. Cursed is the one who does not bey every word.

All they can do is kill you. They can not make you alive or living
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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He did not change the law

The law condemns you where you sit.

That was the purpose for why it was given

Sadly the jews missed that point. And it is sad but it appears you have also
When God created the world, the world he created was not chaos but had law. Yet you say the one and only purpose was to point to sin, and that was not one purpose of the law but all other purposes are null and void, only one remains? That doesn't make sense. I see order not chaos in law obedience. I see it also as a vital part of faith in the Lord. I see it leading to being aware of the need for Christ. as you point out. I see law as many things, not just to be eliminated except for one purpose.

You say the Jews missed the point. The Jews believed it required blood for the forgiveness of sin, they just deny that Christ gave that blood. The entire sacrificial system they used until Christ was based on the forgiveness of sin, not on earning sin through obedience. If they believed in obedience for that, why would they kill their best and prized livestock? They did this based on faith in instructions from the Lord without any understanding of why as we are told as we know of Christ.
 
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