Our new relationship to the law.

[justbyfaith]

Then why do you preach people can fall away?

if a person does not have eternal life. They can not fall away, they are already dead

Why? because someone might think that they are saved when they are really not saved.

And, if they hold onto some past experience where they went forward at a Crusade or church service to tell them that they are still saved, they will not understand the severity of their condition and turn to the Lord so that He can redeem them.

Because they think, I was saved on _______________ and could not lose my salvation, so I don't need to get saved!

But the point that I would make is that if you don't continue in His goodness, whatever salvation you may think you had was not a valid salvation; and if you insist that it was, my only recourse, in order to get you saved, is to mention that you were cut off because you continued not in His goodness.

 

[justbyfaith]

Then why do you preach people can fall away?

if a person does not have eternal life. They can not fall away, they are already dead

Also, if you pay attention to what I am saying by the scriptures that I quote to you, your questions will answer themselves.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not in my opinion.

For it is written,

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth ***for ever***.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

 

[BroTan]

You better be perfect my friend. Thats what the law requires.

If you break one command, you guilty.

Like Paul says in Hebrew 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So key is to stay away from wilfully sinning, brothers and Sisters.

 

[BroTan]

I have christ, I do not need luck

Your right, Paul would never have known sin. And he would never have found christ. He would have been lost in his sin and never known.

I will pray for you.

Post and paste some scriptures and verses so we can properly fellowship. Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10). This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27). Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

 

[BroTan]

Romans 4: 15 "Because the law worketh wrath; for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Adam and Eve were created sinless and with a free will. In the Father's kingdom there is perfect justice and mercy. Creatures with a free will can choose to do God's will and be rewarded or go against God's will and be punished. God let them know that the punishment for eating the fruit of a particular ordinary tree was the knowledge of good and evil which results in death. This knowledge is our conscience and we are all born with it. This conscience that we are born with lets us know right from wrong and we are all under the law. The tendency of mankind is to put what benefits them first even at the expense of someone else, so we are all sinners ( even before the commandments given to Moses).

Perfect justice demands that all be condemned and as an example to other beings of what happens when His laws are violated. If He saves everyone, then there would be lawlessness in heaven since other beings would be tempted to join in. The Father in His mercy decides to save a few throughout the history of mankind.

In order to save the few, the Father sends Jesus ( whose parents are Mary and the Holy Spirit of the Father) to erase the saved's sins. Jesus, full of the Father's Spirit, was perfect in obedience even to the point of death. Jesus allowed Himself to die so that life is owed Him by Father. This life is sprinkled to those that are predestined by the Father. They are the ones that turn to God with repentance and put their trust in the Father's plan to erase their sins by believing that Jesus is life. Still something else has to be done in order to allow humans in heaven. The law can be summarized in two commandments: Love God and Love everyone else. We can't do it on our own, so the Father glorifies Jesus with His Spirit who in turn distributes it to each believer who then become the body of Christ. The Father and Jesus fill the believer's heart with the degree of love necessary to enter heaven as well as knowledge and direction.

Very interesting and I'll end it with Ecclesiastes 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[BroTan]

Of course, as concerning the sabbath day, in Romans 14 we find that there are those who see every day alike and do not hold one day above another; and that these will stand before their own Master.

However, if you believe that you must rest on Saturday, the Bible says let every man be fully convinced in his own mind as to what that is.

That's true, but when it comes to the Sabbath day that within the Royal law (Ten commandments). Jesus is the one who rested on the Sabbath day and commanded that you do the same. If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11: 1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

That's true, but when it comes to the Sabbath day that within the Royal law (Ten commandments). Jesus is the one who rested on the Sabbath day and commanded that you do the same. If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11: 1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

I would only say to this that we are to let no man judge us in regards to what we eat, or a holy day, or a new moon, or a sabbath day (Colossians 2:16).

As concerning condemnation, believers in Christ are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

But as concerning obedience we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21). For, the law is written on our hearts and minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6) for those of us who are under the New Covenant (esp. Hebrews 8:8-10).

Just as it is written that if I disobey the food laws it will not affect my salvation in any way (1 Timothy 4:1-6), and yet I choose to obey them in order to show my Lord that I love Him more than those savoury meats (Matthew 5:17-20); so it is written that there is no condemnation for disobedience to the law (such as the sabbath); but that we are obedient to such things because we do love our Lord. And yet, if we were to disobey, it would not have any bearing whatsoever on our salvation. And if we are disobedient to the sabbath, or if we eat those savoury meats, it does not necessarily denote a lack of love for the Lord.

And also, let every man be fully convinced in his own mind as to whether he esteems one day above another or else sees every day as being alike (Romans 14).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why? because someone might think that they are saved when they are really not saved.

And, if they hold onto some past experience where they went forward at a Crusade or church service to tell them that they are still saved, they will not understand the severity of their condition and turn to the Lord so that He can redeem them.

Because they think, I was saved on _______________ and could not lose my salvation, so I don't need to get saved!

But the point that I would make is that if you don't continue in His goodness, whatever salvation you may think you had was not a valid salvation; and if you insist that it was, my only recourse, in order to get you saved, is to mention that you were cut off because you continued not in His goodness.

lets just give them the gospel.

again, no one can fall away, you can only fall away if you are saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Like Paul says in Hebrew 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So key is to stay away from wilfully sinning, brothers and Sisters.

I guess you just sin on accident.

Paul is talking about continuing in willful unbelief. Not talking about commiting a personal sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Post and paste some scriptures and verses so we can properly fellowship. Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10). This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27). Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

What you need to do is love God and Love everyone you come into contract with. And stop loving yourself.

Then and only then will you start to live like christ

If your trying to obey the law. You will fail. Because NO ONE has obeyed the law

 

[justbyfaith]

lets just give them the gospel.

again, no one can fall away, you can only fall away if you are saved.

So, apparently you believe that if someone is genuinely born again, they can fall away.

 

[justbyfaith]

What you need to do is love God and Love everyone you come into contract with. And stop loving yourself.

Then and only then will you start to live like christ

If your trying to obey the law. You will fail. Because NO ONE has obeyed the law

No one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13).

However, as concerning the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6), if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Now, no one can do that if the Holy Spirit isn't dwelling in them. And we receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14).

Therefore, we can walk in freedom from and victory over sin (which is the transgression of the law, 1 John 3:4) through faith in Jesus Christ.

We can be obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6) because we have been set free to do so (there is no more condemnation from the letter of the law; since we have been delivered from it).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, apparently you believe that if someone is genuinely born again, they can fall away.

So. Your here to judge people. Not to actually discuss the word?
How do you get this from what I said to you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13).

However, as concerning the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6), if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Now, no one can do that if the Holy Spirit isn't dwelling in them. And we receive the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13-14).

Therefore, we can walk in freedom from and victory over sin (which is the transgression of the law, 1 John 3:4) through faith in Jesus Christ.

We can be obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6) because we have been set free to do so (there is no more condemnation from the letter of the law; since we have been delivered from it).

You need to preach love my friend. Not law. Preach Christ. Not moses

The law is not going to help anyone become a better christian

 

[Grandpa]

Jas 1:22, But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23, For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24, For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

A contradiction?

I think not.

For Galatians 3:10 is speaking of those who are attempting to be justified by the law (see also Galatians 5:1-4).

But in James 1:25 it is speaking of those who know that they have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ and have moved onward and forward in their walks into "obedience to the faith" (Romans 1:5) and "the obedience of faith" (Romans 16:26).

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

No contradiction.

You just have to learn what the perfet law of liberty is. And how being dead to the law and not being entangled, again, with the yoke of bondage means.

 

[justbyfaith]

So. Your here to judge people. Not to actually discuss the word?
How do you get this from what I said to you

I only gave you the same treatment that you gave to me previously.

 

[justbyfaith]

You need to preach love my friend. Not law. Preach Christ. Not moses

The law is not going to help anyone become a better christian

Okay...here is what I am saying in different words.

The love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart of believers (Romans 5:5) and this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10).

As we bear the fruit of love; joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance; there is no just law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Psalms 94:20, Galatians 5:22-23). Thus, in bearing the fruit of the Spirit (which is primarily love) we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven.

By the law, therefore, is the knowledge of sin. And sin is any behaviour that is lacking the love of Christ.

So, if I commit adultery with my neighbor's wife, kill my neighbor, steal from my neighbor, bear false witness against my neighbor, covet what belongs to my neighbor, or violate any other commandment concerning my neighbor, I am not loving my neighbor as myself.

Therefore, the law is the specifics of the love of God for those who have the love of the Lord dwelling in their hearts. And of course there is also a New Testament law that speaks to proactive means of loving my neighbor as myself.

If I look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it, I will be blessed in what I do...

Jas 1:22, But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23, For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24, For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

I will here change my mind and say that the law of liberty is not the ten commandments.

For it is clear that we will be condemned by the law of Galatians 5:19-21 if we violate it.

So, the law of liberty has to do with doing away with the vices spoken of in that passage (Galatians 5:19-21) and in living by the virtues that scripture proclaims as its opposites (Galatians 5:22-23). And of course we can only do this in the power of the Spirit.

If we live by the Spirit, we will not walk according to the dictates of the flesh (Galatians 5:16); and there is no law against such behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23).

Therefore, as I bear the fruit of the Spirit, I will become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven by virtue of my faith through which I have received the Holy Spirit.

Again, this righteousness is apart from the law but is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

As I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4).

If I am spiritually-minded, I have peace with God, because I am subject in my mind to the law of God, and cannot be otherwise (Romans 8:7).

 

[justbyfaith]

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

No contradiction.

You just have to learn what the perfet law of liberty is. And how being dead to the law and not being entangled, again, with the yoke of bondage means.

By all means give us your take on what the law of liberty is.

I have given a changed point of view on the subject in a post above (#379, https://christianchat.com/threads/our-new-relationship-to-the-law.201671/post-4675373).