Our new relationship to the law.

[Ogom]

The motivation is not to save yourself through works. It is out of gratitude because He has saved you.

I believe it is a false teaching to discourage believers from being obedient to the moral tenets of the law.

this of course though is a milky teaching / and/ or only (1) oneway of looking at things.

God is light and light has many colors....... when ChristIan's get 'bogged down' on one point of view or another point of view...... a narrowed down view.(lens)...... one or a few chosen / decided on / figured out according to their (own currently held) views / and / or understandings [currently held -- with not much thought always / if any for the future of learning new things and what that might actually mean for here today -- right now -- in everything we think, say, believe, teach, expound, hold out as truth] and / or logic and possibly with help the of the Spirit also and in ways (though not always or all -ways)....... with less, far less light / far less Light than God and of Christ. but God / Christ / Spirit ---- is not so.......

the opposite of light is darkness. "for now we see through a glass darkly". Christ was obededient all the way unto death. He did not try to get out of obedience. therefore, God has exalted Him greatly.

....

proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seems right to aman, But its end is the way of death.

 

[Ogom]

YOU CAN”T KEEP THE LAW

Wake up my friend.

Look to Christ. Not to Moses

you have found the difficulty

don't stop there

but ask God to help



finding the difficulty is a beginning (step)

there is much to learn

God is light /we dwell in part (darkness)



seek......................... that......................... light

 

[Grandpa]

Is this not scripture, @Grandpa?

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

In saying that we are not justified by the law, God is not justifying disobedience to His word.

Yes, it is. Did you read it?

Then did you read the questions I asked you?

Do you not understand the questions?

 

[Grandpa]

They are dead to the law as concerning condemnation and the wet paint principle;

They are not dead to it as concerning obedience.

If anyone is born again, they do not violate any of the laws that are spoken of in Romans 13:8-10 as being the fulfillment of "love thy neighbor as thyself".

Circular reasoning that makes no sense and contradicts scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, it is. Did you read it?

Then did you read the questions I asked you?

Do you not understand the questions?

Yes...your reasoning falls apart because of the scripture that I quoted.

Circular reasoning that makes no sense and contradicts scripture.

Nope.

 

[Grandpa]

Yes...your reasoning falls apart because of the scripture that I quoted.



Nope.

My reasoning?

They were questions. That you didn't answer.

I suppose you CAN'T answer them and still hold to the same false philosophy that contradicts scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My reasoning?

They were questions. That you didn't answer.

I suppose you CAN'T answer them and still hold to the same false philosophy that contradicts scripture.

I lost count as to how many lawyers have entered this room with the same attitude. Same message and same blame shifting when they are unable to answer normal questions.

Its amazing.

 

[Grandpa]

I lost count as to how many lawyers have entered this room with the same attitude. Same message and same blame shifting when they are unable to answer normal questions.

Its amazing.

2 Corinthians 3 shows us that they have a vail over their minds.

I just didn't know that the vail extends to not being able to see faulty circular reasoning. I thought that was just an exercise of logic that would help people at least try to question and think.

 

[justbyfaith]

My reasoning?

They were questions. That you didn't answer.

I suppose you CAN'T answer them and still hold to the same false philosophy that contradicts scripture.

What scripture does my "philosophy" contradict and how does it do so?

Your philosophy contradicts scripture; specifically Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also 1 John 3:4; 1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26.

 

[justbyfaith]

I lost count as to how many lawyers have entered this room with the same attitude. Same message and same blame shifting when they are unable to answer normal questions.

Its amazing.

2 Corinthians 3 shows us that they have a vail over their minds.

I just didn't know that the vail extends to not being able to see faulty circular reasoning. I thought that was just an exercise of logic that would help people at least try to question and think.

You can both choose to be disobedient to the word of the Lord and see where it gets you.

My Bible tells me that those who "work" or "do" iniquity' shall be cast into the furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 25:41).

Jesus came to save His people from their sins (Matthew 1:21) and to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:13-15).

The definition of sin / iniquity is that it is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

While we are no longer bound by the oldness of the letter; but are set free to be obedient to the newness of the spirit, of what is written (Romans 7:6)..

Jhn 8:43, Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Corinthians 3 shows us that they have a vail over their minds.

I just didn't know that the vail extends to not being able to see faulty circular reasoning. I thought that was just an exercise of logic that would help people at least try to question and think.

It shows how satan has blinded them. So that they see wisdom which is not from God and thinks it is.

Satan comes as an angel of light

 

[justbyfaith]

It shows how satan has blinded them. So that they see wisdom which is not from God and thinks it is.

Satan comes as an angel of light

Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

correcting a persons doctrine is not trying to remove a splinter from their eye.

The truth hurts.. I am sorry if you can;t see that.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Grandpa and @eternally-gratefull,

I believe that satan has blinded you to certain scriptures that tell us that obedience is the sure result of being born again of the Holy Spirit.

I have referenced them time and time again, yet you continue to ignore them; as if they did not even exist in the context of holy scripture.

And then you want to turn around and say that I am blind.

That is you trampling over my pearls and turning again to rend me, impaho.

 

[justbyfaith]

correcting a persons doctrine is not trying to remove a splinter from their eye.

The truth hurts.. I am sorry if you can;t see that.

If you want to correct my doctrine, I invite you to do so using the holy scriptures.

Up until now, you have failed to do that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Grandpa and @eternally-gratefull,

I believe that satan has blinded you to certain scriptures that tell us that obedience is the sure result of being born again of the Holy Spirit.

I have referenced them time and time again, yet you continue to ignore them; as if they did not even exist in the context of holy scripture.

And then you want to turn around and say that I am blind.

That is you trampling over my pearls and turning again to rend me, impaho.

Deer sir

You have once again slandered both of us. As we have not stated anything about or against works being the result of being saved.

We actually believe this

once again, in your rage against anyone who dares to question you you just stick your foot in your mouth because you can’t hear a word anyone says to you.

 

[justbyfaith]

Deer sir

You have once again slandered both of us. As we have not stated anything about or against works being the result of being saved.

We actually believe this

once again, in your rage against anyone who dares to question you you just stick your foot in your mouth because you can’t hear a word anyone says to you.

However, that is all that I am preaching and you keep coming against me in that.

So, I believe that you are in fact preaching against what I am preaching which is what I said.

As Jesus said,

Jhn 8:43, Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[justbyfaith]

bump

 

[TMS]

wow.. i read the last 20 posts and the thing that stands out is that justbyfaith wants to talk about scripture and reason from scripture, but Grandpa and eternally-gratefull are just reassuring each other that they have it right.
The Bible is from God and does not contradict itself. Faith and works do not contradict each other, and the law which condemns us is not to be thrown away because we are not meeting it's standards. We are to look to the law and Jesus (who is the perfect example of obedience to the law) to see our need of Jesus's grace and ask Jesus by faith to perfect us each day.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Keeping the law will not make us righteous and I'm sure all agree on this point.. Jesus is our righteousness.. The law shows us our sins and points us to a saviour. The law is the perfect standard of sinlessness, and we should aim to live like Jesus because we love Jesus and desire to be sinless like Him. We haven't got the power to be free from the sins in us but by faith and by surrender (born again) we can be changed by Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. Like a ball of clay in Jesus 's hands Jesus wants to create in us His image which was perfectly obedient to the law. free us from sin.
Saved from sin = realizing our need = understanding the law.

No law = no sin.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.