Biblical Mary!

[infinitekhanol]

We believe Mary was righteous, but she was made righteous by offering the sin sacrifice prescribed by the law. She was poor so she could not afford a lamb so she offered up a pair of turtle doves.

There are things not worthy of response.

 

[Magenta]

The simple fact is that Paul, in his letters/Scripture said to hold fast to all that we have taught, orally and in writing. In fact, many haven't heeded Paul. Instead they've rejected all that he and the early church taught orally. One poster asked, where is the oral teaching of Paul today? For sure, it's not with you or your church, but it still exists, where is it taught? You've abandoned it in favor of the unbiblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Sola Scriptura is not taught in the bible. Simple as that. So go ahead and abandon Paul's scriptural teachings for Luther's false sola scriptura. PS Don't bet your soul on Luther.

Paul did not tell us to hold fast to false RCC teachings. He was speaking to Jews. Luke recorded that Paul preached to the Jews in the local synagogue, and if he was also preaching to Gentiles, they had more than likely come out of paganism. He also said, hold fast that which is good. Mariology is not good

 

[Evmur]

You are now saying what I did not say. I never said that the scripture is not authoritative neither did @ResidentAlien say so. We are saying that scripture is not the only source of God's word. Period. Are you a lawyer? Because lawyers like putting words into people's mouth without them not even having imagined such words.

No one has ever said that the sources contradict themselves. We are saying, as the scripture says, that there are many things Jesus and the Apostles did and said which were not written in the bible. Simple.

We KNOW what you are saying

You are saying the teachings of the pope are of equal authority to scripture.

The pope teaches that Mary is Co-Redemptor with Christ, another horrific doctrine.

 

[Evmur]

There are things not worthy of response.

You have no answer because if Mary offered two turtle doves for her sins it shows she was not immaculately conceived.

 

[Magenta]

... they pray it 10 times mind ... that ought to do it.

Ten times each set, five sets, plus the few at the beginning...

Not to mention however many are given for penance.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Probably oral teachings the likes of which Jesus had to say:

Matthew 15:9 "They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."

Mark 7:7 "They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules."

And also no doubt in relation to how many times Jesus said, "But I say unto you... "
which was always contrasted against, "Ye have heard that it was said... "

Well, these are all written in the scripture and therefore could not be said to be among the oral words.

 

[Magenta]

Well, these are all written in the scripture and therefore could not be said to be among the oral words.

And what are these elusive oral teaching (1st century) that keep being alluded to?

 

[Evmur]

Ten times each set, five sets, plus the few at the beginning...

Not to mention however many are given for penance.

tell me about it, our dear old dad had us all down on our knees as kids praying the rosary each night.

 

[Evmur]

Well, these are all written in the scripture and therefore could not be said to be among the oral words.

Again I must ask you why didn't Peter teach about Mary? why did he not have her carried through the streets on a chair? Rather he taught "there is none other name given among men whereby we must be saved than Jesus Christ"

 

[Jackson123]

Have you considered why St Paul was always asking his converts to pray for him and his fellow workers in the vineyard of God?

Paul ask earthly living Christian to pray for him, not ask people that is not living on earth anymore.
How you know your grandpa that already with the Lord still hear what your pray

 

[infinitekhanol]

I have also witnessed Catholics saying they do not pray to Mary, when the Hail Mary is the most predominant prayer on their rosary.

Can you show the words of this prayer so we can discuss further. Even if through a link.

 

[Magenta]

tell me about it, our dear old dad had us all down on our knees as kids praying the rosary each night.

Still some will tell us Catholics do not pray to Mary

 

[Magenta]

Can you show the words of this prayer so we can discuss further. Even if through a link.

Look it up for yourself, please.

Some dedicate the whole month of May to praying to Mary

 

[infinitekhanol]

Interesting, too, that their only ex cathedra dogmas concern Mary and not Jesus.

The Catholic is mandated to believe these dogmas, which try
as anyone may, cannot be found to have any basis in Scripture.

That is what you believe. Is that truth? Far from the truth.

 

[Magenta]

That is what you believe. Is that truth? Far from the truth.

Let me guess which part you believe untrue: you are saying that there is Biblical basis for
believing Mary was immaculately conceived, and bodily assumed to heaven. Let's see the verses.

 

[Jackson123]

They are saying it the way it is in the scripture. There is no ulterior motive.

It is wrong to malign or misrepresent others

A lot of catholic doctrine not the way scripture say
For example purgatory doctrine what in the scripture?

 

[infinitekhanol]

Many Catholics come to a true knowledge of salvation, most Protestants believe that. They are saved despite the RCC not because of it. I was raised a devout Catholic and am not anti Catholic people, I am anti Catholic doctrine. Which is a lie.

How is it a lie? it is a lie because it does not teach truth, it does not teach the truth that will save. It witholds the key truths concerning salvation because those who teach it i.e. the priests and bishops do not themselves know these truths.

Christ is neither the Founder or the Foundatf the Catholic church. The church leadership was usurped at the turn of the 1st century by the bishops, Ignatias taught that the bishop must be received and obeyed as though he were Christ in person.

No apostle would have claimed such a thing. Ignatias set the church upon a new foundation i.e the bishops.

And that's what you have .... you want to believe their doctrines, their musings, their dreamings, go ahead it's a free country ... we will follow Christ and His apostles.

Do you know that there are many Christians cutting across all denominations that do not know much about scripture? Same way, I believe there are people who call themselves RCC members, who do not know or understand the teachings of the Church. From what I have seen you post here, it seems to me that perhaps, you fall under this group when you were their member. Some in this group strive to know, even when they stopped being members, others run with what they have imagined in their thought to be the doctrine and practices of the Church whilst basing their judgment on perceptions or appearances alone. They end up misrepresenting or even maligning the Church.

Whose truth? Truth according to whose interpretation of the bible? Some school of Thoughts have said, which I agree with, that if the Reformists or is it Reformers were right, there would have been only two Christian denominations. Today the proliferation of denominations reveals how wrong these reformers were. Today, everyone has a different interpretation and run with it as the truth of the gospel just like in the church of Corinthians of old. (1 Corinthians 14:26).

Thank God, the holy Spirit guides the saints today and God knows who are his. These people of God cut across all denominations, and even all religions. It is not by appearance as we know God judges the heart.

 

[Jackson123]

I do not think that anybody has mentioned anywhere that she is God. No, she is not God and therefore not omnipresent.

Have you considered the way prayer works? Have you considered why St Paul was always asking his converts to pray for him and his fellow workers in the vineyard of God? Unity of purpose in prayer yields answers to petitions. He prays on his own, off course, but he understood the importance of unity in prayer or joint prayer. Was Paul present with each of the different churches at the same time they were all offering prayers on his behalf? or rather, were they present with Paul, all at the same time? Yes, spiritually, not that Paul or they are omnipresent.

When we truly pray ( not with wondering mind while we seem to be praying), we spiritually partake in heavenly things. right in the presence of God, his angels and saints. We unite in Spirit. Same thing that happens when we are continually walking in the light or in the Spirit. She does not need to be everywhere to hear us pray or join in our prayers. For, we have come unto Mount Zion, unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem and to the innumerable company of angels. To the general assembly and church of the Firstborn which are written in heaven and to God, the judge of all and the spirits of just men made perfect. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than of Abel. Hebrew 12:22 -24. When we commune with God with the right frame of mind, irrespective of where we dwell, even if all are praying at the same time, we are in his presence with the heavenly hosts. The RCC pray to God through our Lord Jesus Christ. They ask her and the saints for intercessory prayers. They understand Jesus is the only way and their prayers are directed through him.

In John's vision about the heavenly throne, he saw the importance of the prayers of the saints before the throne of the Lamb. Their prayers were so precious that they were placed in golden bowls (Rev5:7-9). That is, the prayer of those who have died in the Lord, together with the saints who are living in the world are like incense before the throne of God.

In Rev 8:1- 4, we see another vision of St John. He saw the prayers of the saints being offered on a golden altar before the throne, He also saw that the prayers of the saints were presented to God by angels who stood before the throne. Before the Lamb and God the Father, were seen the prayers of those who believe in Jesus Christ (both the dead and living) as giving glory to God.

If we can ask our Pastors or fellow believers for prayers, why can't we ask her or any of the saints? After all, when she was on earth, she interceded for people at the wedding at Cana and her Son obliged her. Why do you think he will not oblige her again?

It is not so. You believe when you pray every Christian unite in the sense able to understand what you want. Say I in Indonesia you in USA and I pray, are you able to understand what I pray?

Even if I want my living pastor pray for me I have to call him let him know what I need. I can't just pray from my room and my pastor understand what I need.

 

[infinitekhanol]

signing off for now. will resume some other time..

 

[Jackson123]

Pope Francis’s prayer to Mary during the Coronavirus Pandemic

https://stmarysimsbury.org/prayer-to-mary

Why not pray to Jesus?
Is Mary so powerful able to help stop corona virus?
Not only ask Mary pray but pray to mary