"Among The"

[Edify]

Notice these verses with the words "among the" in them:

Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Luke 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?
Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:
Acts 21:34 And some cried one thing, some another, among the multitude: and when he could not know the certainty for the tumult, he commanded him to be carried into the castle.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

You will find that where "among the" is, the noun after it means 'they were a part of them'. Men, princes of Juda, gentiles, Jews, it doesn't matter. The noun after these words are always the group they are a part of.

Are we all in agreement of this? Yes or no? Isn't this the general rule in the NT?

 

[Edify]

Nearly every translation uses the word "among" to lock in it's accuracy.

 

[GaryA]

You will find that where "among the" is, the noun after it means 'they were a part of them'. Men, princes of Juda, gentiles, Jews, it doesn't matter. The noun after these words are always the group they are a part of.

It seems you are applying 'them' to what follows "among the"...

Grammatically speaking - who are 'they'?

 

[Nehemiah6]

You will find that where "among the" is, the noun after it means 'they were a part of them'.

Not necessarily "a part" of them but simply in close proximity to them. Let's say you are the sole Christian out shopping among those who are not saved. You are in proximity to them but definitely not a part of them.

 

[Gardenias]

Wicked
Living
Dispersed
Least
Mystery
Mover of sedition
Multitude
Redeemed
Wicked.
"They" are these nouns b4 prepositional phrase for identifying which!

 

[Edify]

What I see is that when they are used together, it always means they are a part of that group: Jews, Gentiles, princes of Juda, etc.
So whatever the subject is before them, they are a part of that group. See?

 

[Edify]

Definition of among

1: in or through the midst of : surrounded by //hidden among the trees
2: in company or association with //living among artists
3: by or through the aggregate of //discontent among the poor
4: in the number or class of //wittiest among poets //among other things she was president of her college class
5: in shares to each of //divided among the heirs
6a: through the reciprocal acts of //quarreling among themselves
b: through the joint action of //made a fortune among themselves
Synonyms

Each definition generally says that the subject is a part of the group after "among".

 

[Edify]

There is an important reason why I'm trying to lock this meaning down, but I won't get into that until this is established.

 

[Edify]

Ok.... I'll get to the point.
Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
Junia is a woman's name.

 

[GaryA]

Your supposition is wrong. But, I will have to explain later, as I do not have time right now...

You are not reading the 'grammar of the language' correctly.

It is not so much as even suggesting that Junia is/was an apostle.

The phrase 'who are of note' tells the story...

 

[Edify]

I will be looking foward to it.

 

[GaryA]

I will be looking foward to it.

I haven't forgotten - Real Life is changing how much time I spend on CC.

Please be patient.

 

[GaryA]

You will find that where "among the" is, the noun after it means 'they were a part of them'. Men, princes of Juda, gentiles, Jews, it doesn't matter. The noun after these words are always the group they are a part of.

It seems you are applying 'them' to what follows "among the"...

Grammatically speaking - who are 'they'?

Wicked
Living
Dispersed
Least
Mystery
Mover of sedition
Multitude
Redeemed
Wicked.
"They" are these nouns b4 prepositional phrase for identifying which!

I was really preferring for @Edify to answer my question so as to help him better understand why his premise is incorrect.

BTW - some of the words in your list are incorrect.

I intend to explain why in a future post...

 

[GaryA]

Ok.... I'll get to the point.
Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
Junia is a woman's name.

Your supposition is wrong. But, I will have to explain later, as I do not have time right now...

You are not reading the 'grammar of the language' correctly.

It is not so much as even suggesting that Junia is/was an apostle.

The phrase 'who are of note' tells the story...

The word 'who' (both) does refer to "Andronicus and Junia" ('kinsmen' and 'fellowprisoners' do also).

However...

The verse is not identifying them as being "among the apostles"; rather, it is saying that [there are those] among the apostles [who consider] Andronicus and Junia [to be] 'of note'.

That is what it is [actually] saying.

 

[GaryA]

Definition of among

1: in or through the midst of : surrounded by //hidden among the trees
2: in company or association with //living among artists
3: by or through the aggregate of //discontent among the poor
4: in the number or class of //wittiest among poets //among other things she was president of her college class
5: in shares to each of //divided among the heirs
6a: through the reciprocal acts of //quarreling among themselves
b: through the joint action of //made a fortune among themselves
Synonyms

Each definition generally says that the subject is a part of the group after "among".

Sorry - wrong again.

You are attempting to "cherrypick" from a modern definition that matches neither your supposition nor the Strongs definitions of the greek words used in the verses you posted.

A better "general approximation" is expressed in post #4 by @Nehemiah6.

When trying to understand what "bible words" mean, I highly recommend Strongs Concordance.

At the very least, don't be too quick to trust modern word definitions - Satan is changing them as fast as he can...

 

[GaryA]

Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

In this verse, 'wicked' is determinant - but, by no means are the wicked a subset of the just. It is talking about removing the wicked from the 'midst' of the just.

Luke 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

In this verse, 'living' is determinant - but, by no means are the living a subset of the dead. The meaning here is 'amid'.

John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

In this verse, 'dispersed' is determinant - and, does allow for a subset.

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

In this verse, 'least' is determinant - and, does allow for a subset.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

In this verse, 'make known' is determinant - and, nothing indicated [even] can be a 'candidate' for being a subset.

Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

In this verse, 'mover' is determinant - and, does allow for a subset.

Acts 21:34 And some cried one thing, some another, among the multitude: and when he could not know the certainty for the tumult, he commanded him to be carried into the castle.

In this verse, 'cried' is determinant - and, nothing indicated [even] can be a 'candidate' for being a subset.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

In this verse, 'These' is determinant - and, does allow for a subset.

 

[Edify]

Ok. Let's look again how these two minister so well that they are "of note" among the Apostles. Epathroditus never has such a thing said about him, even though he nearly died to help Paul distribute money & supplies to the churches.

 

[GaryA]

Ok. Let's look again how these two minister so well that they are "of note" among the Apostles. Epathroditus never has such a thing said about him, even though he nearly died to help Paul distribute money & supplies to the churches.

You seem to think that "of note" means "just barely worth mentioning"; however, that is not the case at all.

In this context, it means the apostles thought highly of them.

modern definition: important; significant; famous

1828 definition: reputation; consequence; distinction

Strongs definition: remarkable

 

[Edify]

You seem to think that "of note" means "just barely worth mentioning"; however, that is not the case at all.

In this context, it means the apostles thought highly of them.

modern definition: important; significant; famous

1828 definition: reputation; consequence; distinction

Strongs definition: remarkable

You've got me all wrong, Gary. Here I believe just as you do.
You can't be "of note" among the apostles because the bacon you fried is excellent.
The real point here is they were so highly thought of because of the reputation/value of their ministries.
Thank you for helping me point that out.

 

[Edify]

One of my pet peeves about the church is we have a horrible bad habit of putting "superstar" status on names/ministries in the Bible.
The name "apostle" basically means "one who is sent", yet the church thinks they are head & shoulders spiritually above everybody else & their "office" can no longer be attained. Yet we have these people called "missionaries" who are 'sent' to start churches, train leaders, install pastors & regularly visit all the churches in their area they were called to. Funny how their calling & ministry closely resembles that of an "apostle", yet doesn't have the same "importance" in our eyes.