THE RAPTURE/END OF DAYS

[Absolutely]

They are waiting for the AoD to occur which is the start of the GT.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.



There's no rapture here. The people he says will watch for the AoD are on Earth and have to go hide in the mountains. They are there when false Christ is there which is why he warns not to believe anyone that says He has returned. That's the church who is promised to enter the GT and see the AoD and hear the false claims of the second coming having already happened.

Want to see the rapture? Here it is:


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


The rapture is there in red. No gathering of anyone before or during the GT.

The gt is kicked off by the 4 horsemen.

It is jacobs trouble

Not for the bride.

 

[Evmur]

THE RAPTURE/END OF TIME

I believe we are living now in the Tribulations. These are the "end times" spoken of by Jesus, and I believe every day the "end of days" draws nearer when Jesus shall return for His Church! I believe this will be the "end of time," and there will be NO second chances, no "do overs," or any such. When the Eastern Sky splits and Jesus descends to gather His Church and rapture them up to be with Him forever, that will be it! All that will remain will be the Judgement........

Below are Scriptures concerning the rapture..........


1 Thessalonians, Chapter 4:

14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17_ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 15:

34) Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37) And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38) But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58) Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

John, Chapter 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Mark, Chapter 13:

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Matthew 24:27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I do not believe this.

Paul is the only apostle who speaks about the rapture. The others spoke about Christ's coming to judge the living and the dead. Both doctrines are correct but they are different events.

The resurrection is in 3 stages. 1st Christ the Firstfruits, 2nd those who are His at His coming [already divided by 2, 000 years] and 3rd the resurrection of the living and the dead for He must reign until until He has put all His enemies under His feet 1. Corinthians 15.

So His reign comes before the 3rd resurrection of the living and the dead. And during that reign when He is putting down all rule and authority the rest of mankind will have their opportunity through the Jews who share the earthly reign with Christ [having been converted]

This is what the book of Revelations is all about after the opening few chapters.

 

[Absolutely]

To add to that, I believe it's possible the five virgins who ran out of oil are fakers with ulterior motives. They clearly wanted to go through with the wedding, but their hearts weren't in it anymore. I think that's obvious. Ever been in a relationship where you're trying harder than the other person? It can be one of the most dissatisfying experiences.

Furthermore, consider this verse:

Song of Solomon 8:6
6Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.

Can the oil be love and the extinguished flame a symbol of love that has died? This requires more investigation. Just consider it and mull it over. Let me know what you think, please. Thank you.

If the wise were only wise because of the extra oil , then that is all we can say about Wise/ foolish dynamic of the parable.

Virgin stays as virgin
Oil stays as oil
Lamp stays as lamp
Light stays as light
Impartation was asked for.

Impartation of something they had a few hours ago.
The foolish asked for what they had an hour or so ago.

Amazing how i am seeing such a need to make oil into so many things and virgin mean heathen.

 

[Runningman]

If the wise were only wise because of the extra oil , then that is all we can say about Wise/ foolish dynamic of the parable.

Virgin stays as virgin
Oil stays as oil
Lamp stays as lamp
Light stays as light
Impartation was asked for.

Impartation of something they had a few hours ago.
The foolish asked for what they had an hour or so ago.

Amazing how i am seeing such a need to make oil into so many things and virgin mean heathen.

Oil being Holy Spirit is most likely not plausible. Since the Holy Spirit is God Himself, infinite in capacity. People don't fall asleep and suddenly wake up void of Holy Spirit, as if He is some commodity that can be continually replenished with our effort.

It's much more likely the oil is something else. I'm exploring how the oil is possibly love, endurance, or patience.

 

[Runningman]

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

What do you think?

In that case, the five foolish virgins also trusted in the bridegroom at some point and clearly He believed them since He was prepared to marry them. So had the five foolish virgins heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation, and were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, a guarantee of their inheritance, and were still rejected by God? 😳

Think that over for a moment. Do you see how the oil is probably not the Holy Spirit of God? To be fair, this is a parable so we have to interpret it. I'm seeing there are inconsistencies with making God into oil. Oil is something that needs to be refilled, so the oil could be faith, hope, love, patience, endurance, etc.

Those are my thoughts.

 

[pottersclay]

In that case, the five foolish virgins also trusted in the bridegroom at some point and clearly He believed them since He was prepared to marry them. So had the five foolish virgins heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation, and were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, a guarantee of their inheritance, and were still rejected by God? 😳

Think that over for a moment. Do you see how the oil is probably not the Holy Spirit of God? To be fair, this is a parable so we have to interpret it. I'm seeing there are inconsistencies with making God into oil. Oil is something that needs to be refilled, so the oil could be faith, hope, love, patience, endurance, etc.

Those are my thoughts.

It's because they were not sealed that they were not taken.
The Lord had spoken..let us make man in our image.
The lantern represents God carrying the lantern represents God's word but no oil shows no Holy Spirit.

 

[Runningman]

It's because they were not sealed that they were not taken.
The Lord had spoken..let us make man in our image.
The lantern represents God carrying the lantern represents God's word but no oil shows no Holy Spirit.

Yeah, but they had oil so they had the Holy Spirit, then, right? How did they become unsealed, lose their guarantee, and have their Holy Spirit of promise revoked?

 

[Absolutely]

It's because they were not sealed that they were not taken.
The Lord had spoken..let us make man in our image.
The lantern represents God carrying the lantern represents God's word but no oil shows no Holy Spirit.

Show me in the parable.

If it is " sealed" then the wise could have "sealed"them.

The wise refused to give/ impart oil because of timing, and timing only.

The parable illustrated the normal activity of sharing oil.

It is recorded in acts that the Holy Spirit was imparted by others full of the Holy Spirit.

"Giving others oil."

 

[Absolutely]

In that case, the five foolish virgins also trusted in the bridegroom at some point and clearly He believed them since He was prepared to marry them. So had the five foolish virgins heard the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation, and were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, a guarantee of their inheritance, and were still rejected by God? 😳

Think that over for a moment. Do you see how the oil is probably not the Holy Spirit of God? To be fair, this is a parable so we have to interpret it. I'm seeing there are inconsistencies with making God into oil. Oil is something that needs to be refilled, so the oil could be faith, hope, love, patience, endurance, etc.

Those are my thoughts.

There is a clue in acts.
Those that recieved the baptism in the Holy Spirit in acts via laying on of hands, were already saved. Already had a small measure of the Holy Spirit.
Hence some with oil, others with extra vessels of oil.

 

[Absolutely]

Oil being Holy Spirit is most likely not plausible. Since the Holy Spirit is God Himself, infinite in capacity. People don't fall asleep and suddenly wake up void of Holy Spirit, as if He is some commodity that can be continually replenished with our effort.

It's much more likely the oil is something else. I'm exploring how the oil is possibly love, endurance, or patience.

Oil fits easily.

Love? The wise could not " give/ impart"love?
They ran out of love?
The wise could impart patience? Patience is imparted to one another?
Endurance? I can give endurance to a brother or sister?
I can impart endurance?

Only the Holy Spirit fits

 

[Absolutely]

I will never understand the tireless need to change the parable.

 

[Absolutely]

second chance????
So not you are preaching " second chance"

How dare God give us a second chance

"now"

 

[DavidTree]

The wise had extra oil.
Why

You never noticed did you?

Extr

According to your doctrine and beliefs they are resurrected in rev 20 which shows no resurrection a day after the second coming.

They get resurrected as they are martyred because we see martyrs in heaven that are so many they cannot be counted.

They are innumerable

The 144k are also in heaven with no direct explanation.
They are either raptured or they martyred and resurrect. But they are definitely in heaven and that is during the tribulation as depicted in Revelation 14, the first Fruit jews gathered

First thing i noticed is the Oil for i know what the LORD is speaking of - You should know that i know - did i not start a Thread on this most important Elemement for Godly Living in "Cessation of Gifts"

 

[DavidTree]

Yes
Basically the anointing is the equipping for a job. Power to do.

BINGO - You hit the 'Big Haul'

And the Job is the 'Big Haul' = reel in your Nets = 'we can't, the boat will sink, too many fish'

 

[pottersclay]

Many believe that when they are saved (baptised) that they automatically receive the Holy Spirit.
Some do but scripture points out not in all cases.
Jesus breath on them and said receive the Holy Spirit.
Latter on he told them to wait as he would send the Holy Spirit.
In his ministry he said..
Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

To those that ask...wow

The Lord God said this...Let us make man in our image.

Now let's be truthful here. Some say they lacked love.
All of us lack the love we are to have if you look at what jesus said.
Love the Lord with all your heart..soul, mind, can you honestly say you do.
This word love is a poor translation. What jesus was saying is serve.
Serve the Lord with all your heart, soul ,mind, serve with all your strength, all your might.

Love if you haven't learned from life its self comes from relationship.
Did you love your spouse when you first ment them? Above and beyond anything in your life.
Did you command them to love you? or did they command you to love them? Could you?

John the disciple was first known as a person with a short fuse, asking to call down fire on people.
Later on with his walk with jesus and throughout his Epistles he's known as the disciple of love.

Peter referred to in the book of acts as a un learned man, denied knowing jesus, walked away from him.
Yet he is the most mentioned in the gospels . And was called back specifically by Jesus to feed the sheep.

We love God because he first loved us. And that love compels us to walk with him and as we walk with him we are transformed not conformed but transformed by the renewing of our minds.

You can't carry love....you hold it.. you express it...

 

[pottersclay]

the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[Absolutely]

Many believe that when they are saved (baptised) that they automatically receive the Holy Spirit.
Some do but scripture points out not in all cases.
Jesus breath on them and said receive the Holy Spirit.
Latter on he told them to wait as he would send the Holy Spirit.
In his ministry he said..
Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

To those that ask...wow

The Lord God said this...Let us make man in our image.

Now let's be truthful here. Some say they lacked love.
All of us lack the love we are to have if you look at what jesus said.
Love the Lord with all your heart..soul, mind, can you honestly say you do.
This word love is a poor translation. What jesus was saying is serve.
Serve the Lord with all your heart, soul ,mind, serve with all your strength, all your might.

Love if you haven't learned from life its self comes from relationship.
Did you love your spouse when you first ment them? Above and beyond anything in your life.
Did you command them to love you? or did they command you to love them? Could you?

John the disciple was first known as a person with a short fuse, asking to call down fire on people.
Later on with his walk with jesus and throughout his Epistles he's known as the disciple of love.

Peter referred to in the book of acts as a un learned man, denied knowing jesus, walked away from him.
Yet he is the most mentioned in the gospels . And was called back specifically by Jesus to feed the sheep.

We love God because he first loved us. And that love compels us to walk with him and as we walk with him we are transformed not conformed but transformed by the renewing of our minds.

You can't carry love....you hold it.. you express it...

I think you are assuming there is no measure of the Spirit. ( more/ less)

 

[Runningman]

Oil fits easily.

Love? The wise could not " give/ impart"love?
They ran out of love?
The wise could impart patience? Patience is imparted to one another?
Endurance? I can give endurance to a brother or sister?
I can impart endurance?

Only the Holy Spirit fits

Oil being Holy Spirit doesn't neatly fit though and for good reasons.

1. The five wise virgins said to go buy more oil:

Matthew 25:9
9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

2. Attempting to buy the Holy Spirit with money is a sin:

Acts 8:18
18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

So the five 'wise' virgins telling them to go purchase more Holy Spirit would have been a sin, which would mean they aren't wise. Oil being Holy Spirit doesn't make sense. Though I'll give it to you that love, patience, endurance, etc doesn't fit well either. Hence why I'm researching.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[pottersclay]

I think you are assuming there is no measure of the Spirit. ( more/ less)

What I have found in scripture is that without the Holy Spirit we are incomplete.
Jesus told us of the Holy Spirit that he comes to and fro from where we do not know.
Many believe it's a one and done thing. Not according to scripture. It's a daily filling we need.
Jesus taught in the temple and throughout with authority (power) .
He emptied himself daily and asked to be filled again..notice he was seen many times praying to the father.
We are in desperate need of Gods free gifts without them we are incomplete and not excepted.
The Lord said "let us make man in our image.
All that I have posted here should be good news to many as I had hoped for.
Many may think that they need to be more faithful ....more faith.
But it may be lack of the Holy Spirit in there lives and all they need to do is ask.
There have been many teachers and preachers with a good knowledge of scripture who could preach and teach a great sermon. But without that power and authority that comes from the Holy Spirit it soon falls on deaf ears.
God through out the bible always witnessed by him, jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
All of creation was created by these 3.
If we lack let him ask Paul said.
I believe that some cannot see the mysteries in the new testament because they lack the Holy Spirit.
Yes there are I believe 13 possibly more in the new testament other than the rapture event.
Jesus is faithful to complete his good work in us untill the day of redemption.
Make sure you are filled. If not you are incomplete.
If we are living sacrifices to the Lord but are incomplete are we accepted?
Paul said make sure we are spotless, blameless, he told us to examine ourselves.
And if we find a lack...ask.

 

[Absolutely]

What I have found in scripture is that without the Holy Spirit we are incomplete.
Jesus told us of the Holy Spirit that he comes to and fro from where we do not know.
Many believe it's a one and done thing. Not according to scripture. It's a daily filling we need.
Jesus taught in the temple and throughout with authority (power) .
He emptied himself daily and asked to be filled again..notice he was seen many times praying to the father.
We are in desperate need of Gods free gifts without them we are incomplete and not excepted.
The Lord said "let us make man in our image.
All that I have posted here should be good news to many as I had hoped for.
Many may think that they need to be more faithful ....more faith.
But it may be lack of the Holy Spirit in there lives and all they need to do is ask.
There have been many teachers and preachers with a good knowledge of scripture who could preach and teach a great sermon. But without that power and authority that comes from the Holy Spirit it soon falls on deaf ears.
God through out the bible always witnessed by him, jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
All of creation was created by these 3.
If we lack let him ask Paul said.
I believe that some cannot see the mysteries in the new testament because they lack the Holy Spirit.
Yes there are I believe 13 possibly more in the new testament other than the rapture event.
Jesus is faithful to complete his good work in us untill the day of redemption.
Make sure you are filled. If not you are incomplete.
If we are living sacrifices to the Lord but are incomplete are we accepted?
Paul said make sure we are spotless, blameless, he told us to examine ourselves.
And if we find a lack...ask.

I believe you are a true man of God. And I agree with most all that you say and what comes out of your heart.
I see in God's word a measure of the holy spirit that men are operating in because it says, "Stephen Full of the Holy Ghost ...."
and in Revelation it says that John was in the spirit on the Lord's Day.
And in Romans 1 it says "....who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit."