How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

This is just playing games with the passage. Where does it is say anything about the righteous being harvested at that time? "The harvest of the earth" means those who do not have their citizenship in Heaven.

There are two Harvests - One for the Righteous and one for the wicked.

Harvest of the Righteous started already = John 4:34
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. 35Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! 36And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labors.”

 

[Nehemiah6]

There are two Harvests - One for the Righteous and one for the wicked.

But not in Revelation 14. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the main harvest which takes place long before Revelation 14.

 

[DavidTree]

But not in Revelation 14. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the main harvest which takes place long before Revelation 14.

Where do you see the pre-tribulation rapture in Revelation?

 

[cv5]

Yes, and Paul and Jesus are in agreement. What Christ described in Matthew 13 is what Paul said in plain language in 2 Thessalonians 1. The harvest of the earth takes place at the rapture. Do you see Matthew 24:28 in a whole new light bow? There will be eagles gathered at corpses; it'll be a bloodbath. Also check Matthew 24:36-41... "As the days of Noe were..." and "one taken another left."

Dude I know Matthew 24 & Matthew 13 like the back of my hand in terms of end time eschatology. And the rapture event is not anywhere in those two chapters let me tell you.

 

[cv5]

I showed you above in Matthew 13.

The parable of the wheat and the tares, Matt. 13: 24-30 and 36-43, describes the harvest of the wicked and good as one event. Notice there no mention about a span of seven years separating the harvests.

“Gather ye together first the tares (the wicked).” According to Jesus, the wheat is not harvested before the tares.

That's because that particular phenomenon occurs DURING the DOTL (at the end of the seven year tribulation)...! The Church has been rapture before the DOTL commences.

 

[DavidTree]

Dude I know Matthew 24 in Matthew 13 like the back of my hand in terms of end time eschatology. And the rapture event is not anywhere in those two chapters let me tell you.

Only because you break the Eternal Commandment - Proverbs 30:5-6

You, willfully lie, when you say the 'Church' is not in Matthew 24.

Are you now saying that She is not in Matthew 13 either?

Have you repented from lieing about 2 Thessalonians 2:3 by attempting to change the 'falling away' as the departure/rapture?

The Apostle Paul, the Holy Spirit corrects your error = 1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith

The Holy Spirit and the Apostle Paul and John corrects your error = 1 John 2:18-19

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but their departure(strongs 2443) that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[Runningman]

Only because you break the Eternal Commandment - Proverbs 30:5-6

You, willfully lie, when you say the 'Church' is not in Matthew 24.

Are you now saying that She is not in Matthew 13 either?

Have you repented from lieing about 2 Thessalonians 2:3 by attempting to change the 'falling away' as the departure/rapture?

The Apostle Paul, the Holy Spirit corrects your error = 1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith

The Holy Spirit and the Apostle Paul and John corrects your error = 1 John 2:18-19

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but their departure(strongs 2443) that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I think some people love the pre-trib doctrine so much that, where the Bible debunks, it they scramble for an alternative interpretation. Centering their entire doctrine around the false pre-trib rapture is how dispensational premillennialists have come up with some rather strange interpretations. They use a variety of supporting doctrines used to prop up a rickety core doctrine of pre-trib rapture. Just doesn't stand to Bible scrutiny and in their hearts I believe they know.

 

[cv5]

I think some people love the pre-trib doctrine so much that, where the Bible debunks, it they scramble for an alternative interpretation. Centering their entire doctrine around the false pre-trib rapture is how dispensational premillennialists have come up with some rather strange interpretations. They use a variety of supporting doctrines used to prop up a rickety core doctrine of pre-trib rapture. Just doesn't stand to Bible scrutiny and in their hearts I believe they know.

Or people just don't get it. For example I have been telling people for years that Luke 21 does not match Mark 13 and Matthew 24. And they don't get it. You don't get it. You STILL don't get it.

TDW Has laid out his case in exquisite form and hardly anybody gets it. Too bad. Glad I get it.

 

[cv5]

Only because you break the Eternal Commandment - Proverbs 30:5-6

You, willfully lie, when you say the 'Church' is not in Matthew 24.

Are you now saying that She is not in Matthew 13 either?

Have you repented from lieing about 2 Thessalonians 2:3 by attempting to change the 'falling away' as the departure/rapture?

The Apostle Paul, the Holy Spirit corrects your error = 1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith

The Holy Spirit and the Apostle Paul and John corrects your error = 1 John 2:18-19

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but their departure(strongs 2443) that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Say what? I specifically said that the rapture event is not in Matthew 24 or Matthew 13.

I have to tell you that I think you just don't get it.....

 

[DavidTree]

Say what? I specifically said that the rapture event is not in Matthew 24 or Matthew 13.

I have to tell you that I think you just don't get it.....

Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b’

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 1:2

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,
Titus 1:1

His Elect are the Saints/His Church/His Bride = Rapture = Matthew 24:29-31

 

[DavidTree]

I think some people love the pre-trib doctrine so much that, where the Bible debunks, it they scramble for an alternative interpretation. Centering their entire doctrine around the false pre-trib rapture is how dispensational premillennialists have come up with some rather strange interpretations. They use a variety of supporting doctrines used to prop up a rickety core doctrine of pre-trib rapture. Just doesn't stand to Bible scrutiny and in their hearts I believe they know.

I use to believe in pre-trib until i went in depth, exhaustive study in the Word.

After many many discussions with Brethren over it, i have found out that it is a 'cult following' where those who hold unto it even refuse to research and accept Scripture that completely denies it, refutes it and condemns it.

Just as you said: "They use a variety of supporting doctrines used to prop up a rickety core doctrine of pre-trib rapture."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The parable of the wheat and the tares, Matt. 13: 24-30 and 36-43, describes the harvest of the wicked and good as one event. Notice there no mention about a span of seven years separating the harvests.

There is NO SPAN of seven years between the "WHEAT" and the "Tares"... they are harvested at the same time (His Second Coming to the earth Rev19).

The "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement); not so the EARLIER harvest (harvested by means of "TOSSING UP INTO THE AIR and BLOWING away the chaff)









[we / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is/are not the "WHEAT" harvest, which harvest is associated with the SECOND of the TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23... the one in verse 17, which says in connection with that-->"TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (<--that is not US...[know why??]... for it says so in the epistles. Saturate in the epistles for awhile so you can pick up what Jesus had to say FURTHER [Jn16:12 "I have YET MANY THINGS to say unto you..."])]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I use to believe in pre-trib until i went in depth, exhaustive study in the Word.

Except every time you "explained" what you used to believe (about it), what you said (you believed formerly) did not align with "pre-trib"

(such as saying "Rapture" is found in Matthew 24... when Jesus actually was not covering that Subject ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse). Many people take a mis-step just here, and thus go off in the wrong direction based off that...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Runningman said:
I showed you above in Matthew 13.

The parable of the wheat and the tares, Matt. 13: 24-30 and 36-43, describes the harvest of the wicked and good as one event. Notice there no mention about a span of seven years separating the harvests.

“Gather ye together first the tares (the wicked).” According to Jesus, the wheat is not harvested before the tares.

That's because that particular phenomenon occurs DURING the DOTL (at the end of the seven year tribulation)...! The Church has been rapture before the DOTL commences.

Yes.

And "the DOTL" is a VERY LONG period of time! [7-yr period, 2nd Coming to the earth, MK age--ALL OF THAT!]

And Paul agreed with Jesus that "the DOTL" ARRIVES [as Paul says] "EXACTLY LIKE"... the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (of the ones JESUS TALKED ABOUT[!] [same word, but in the PLURAL]) that COMES UPON a woman... And Jesus, in referring to those, was telling of things which will occur WELL-PRIOR to His OWN [Personal] "return" to the earth in Matthew 24:29-31 / Rev19...

And yes, "our Rapture" thus occurs even before [just before] "the beginning of birth PANGS" [1st one being the ARRIVAL of the DOTL, 1Th5:1-3!] which are equivalent to the "SEALS" at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1]" time period (i.e. 7 yrs in duration: SEALS / TRUMPETS / VIALS, those years, all together).




____________

P.S. @DavidTree , I think you are forgetting that the phrase in 2Th2:3 has a DEFINITE ARTICLE ("the"... which you did not include, when you said it is [as of now] already "fulfilled"). No, it is a definite event that marks something, providing one of two EVIDENCES which will be in play when it will actually be a true statement "that the DOTL *IS PRESENT / IS HERE*" (which it wasn't... and Paul is explaining WHY it is NOT SO "that the DOTL IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE [PERFECT indicative]" per the false claimants of v.2, in what he spells out following that...)

 

[ewq1938]

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Pre-tribbers correctly understand that this gathering of the saints is the rapture.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Yet, they somehow cannot see that this is same exact gathering/rapture. Both of these are addressing the one and only rapture of the church and it is after the end of tribulation just as Paul said it was:


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There are two Harvests - One for the Righteous and one for the wicked.

What I think you are referring to here is what Acts 24:15 is talking about:

"having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

...but... a couple things to consider here:

--what is being referred to here in Acts 24:15 ('resurrection')... those take place some 1000 yrs apart;

--whereas Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 is speaking of ppl who will be "still-living" at the time-slot surrounding Christ's Second Coming to the earth ("WHEAT" and "Tares" which will be "growing together"... i.e. still standing on the earth [as "still-living persons"], when the "harvesting" takes place); no one is being "resurrected" in this Matthew 13 passage re: "harvest" (and the "WHEAT" and "Tares" are being harvested AT THE SAME TIME-SLOT)

 

[DavidTree]

What I think you are referring to here is what Acts 24:15 is talking about:

"having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

...but... a couple things to consider here:

--what is being referred to here in Acts 24:15 ('resurrection')... those take place some 1000 yrs apart;

--whereas Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 is speaking of ppl who will be "still-living" at the time-slot surrounding Christ's Second Coming to the earth ("WHEAT" and "Tares" which will be "growing together"... i.e. still standing on the earth [as "still-living persons"], when the "harvesting" takes place); no one is being "resurrected" in this Matthew 13 passage re: "harvest" (and the "WHEAT" and "Tares" are being harvested AT THE SAME TIME-SLOT)

In the Gospels the Lord does not give us the 1,000 Year Reign - HE reserved that info for His Revelation.

 

[DavidTree]

Except every time you "explained" what you used to believe (about it), what you said (you believed formerly) did not align with "pre-trib"

(such as saying "Rapture" is found in Matthew 24... when Jesus actually was not covering that Subject ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse). Many people take a mis-step just here, and thus go off in the wrong direction based off that...

Matthew 24 is His Coming, for His Elect = His Body His Bride His Church the Saints

1 Peter , Ephesians, Titus , James, Romans and on all confirm we, who belong to Christ are His Elect.

 

[GaryA]

For example I have been telling people for years that Luke 21 does not match Mark 13 and Matthew 24.

Why would [all] three accounts of the same discourse not match?

 

[cv5]

Matthew 24 is His Coming, for His Elect = His Body His Bride His Church the Saints

1 Peter , Ephesians, Titus , James, Romans and on all confirm we, who belong to Christ are His Elect.

DT.....a little friendly advice:
Try handling the Scripture more like a scalpel instead of a blunt instrument. You are just not making a lot of headway there buddy....