How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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DavidTree

DavidTree

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peldom10 said:
You can full fill your ego and disregard scriptures presented to you. No one can prevent that.
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Not one 'pre-trib' scripture has been presented - i cannot lie to the Lord or to myself to please men.

Bring forth the clear scripture that shows Christ has taken His Church to heaven via rapture and this occurs before His Coming.
 
P

peldom10

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ewq1938 said:
That doesn't come from bible though. The bible has tribulation first, then second coming, then the resurrection first and the rapture after that. While you cannot prove your order of events, I can prove mine because mine came from the bible.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.
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That is your interpretation...but, it is not biblical.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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peldom10 said:
That is your interpretation...but, it is not biblical.
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It's no interpretation, it's quite straightforward. That's why you cannot show how it's wrong. You only make a false claim that it's wrong with nothing to support the empty claim. You know I have proven post-trib but your belief in pre-trib is strong and it's hard to let go but the scriptural position is the only one we should accept. This is the time where you pray for God to show you the right way to believe regarding this.
 
GaryA

GaryA

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:LOL::(

is too

is not

is too

is not

is too

is not

is too

is not

:rolleyes:

Y'all sound like a bunch of kids on the playground of primary school.

:p
 
oyster67

oyster67

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DavidTree said:
YES , with you perverting 1 Thess 4:13-18 by saying the rapture ccurs before the Resurrection
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No, the Rapture marks the beginning of the First Resurrection. You have not progressed one inch all day. All you have been listening to is the noise of your own wheels spinning in the mud.:poop: Wipe it out of your eyes and see, my friend.(y)
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

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oyster67 said:
No, the Rapture marks the beginning of the First Resurrection. You have not progressed one inch all day. All you have been listening to is the noise of your own wheels spinning in the mud.:poop: Wipe it out of your eyes and see, my friend.(y)
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Bring forth the scripture that declares what you say: "the rapture is the beginning of the First Resurrection"
 
ZNP

ZNP

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GaryA said:
There is no contradiction.

The idea of prevailing against the saints is not the same thing as hell prevailing against the Church.

Consider:

If the Church ceases to be present on the earth - and, one more soul passes through the gates of hell - then, the gates of hell will/would have prevailed against the Church.

Jesus told Peter that would never happen.

It also means that the Church will not cease to be present on the earth until hell is thrown into the lake of fire.

Which completely invalidates pre-trib rapture entirely.

The Daniel and Revelation verses above are referring to past history - and, while the HRE did prevail against the saints, the Church never went out of existance.
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That is one interpretation.

Another is this: God blessed believing Abraham and one of the blessings was that the entire world would be blessed because of him. Think of the church as a covering for the entire world that is protecting the Earth. Then when the Holy Spirit steps aside it is like removing this covering and at that time the lawless one is revealed.

This is like what God told Noah when He said my Spirit will not always strive with man. Right now those who are one with the Holy Spirit are striving with the lawlessness preventing them from doing what they want to do.

This also is like what happened when Adam and Eve sinned and then were naked. They were covered with the Holy Spirit and after sinning that covering was removed.
 
oyster67

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DavidTree said:
Bring forth the scripture that declares what you say: "the rapture is the beginning of the First Resurrection"
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1 Thessalonians
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 
DavidTree

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ZNP said:
That is one interpretation.

Another is this: God blessed believing Abraham and one of the blessings was that the entire world would be blessed because of him. Think of the church as a covering for the entire world that is protecting the Earth. Then when the Holy Spirit steps aside it is like removing this covering and at that time the lawless one is revealed.

This is like what God told Noah when He said my Spirit will not always strive with man. Right now those who are one with the Holy Spirit are striving with the lawlessness preventing them from doing what they want to do.

This also is like what happened when Adam and Eve sinned and then were naked. They were covered with the Holy Spirit and after sinning that covering was removed.
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This is very good.
Know this, that the Holy Spirit steps aside but does not leave - the Saints victoriously endure the Tribulation by the power of the Holy Spirit in them.

This was made specifically clear by the Lord in Matthew 25:1-13
 
DavidTree

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oyster67 said:
1 Thessalonians
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
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AMEN - the dead in Christ rise first, this is the First Resurrection = Revelation chapter 20

After the Resurrection of the dead, those alive/remaining Saints are gathered and caught up with the Resurrected Saints
 
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