God wants us sober, not drunk

[reneweddaybyday]

Oh, do you work for him?
Is that why you answer for him?

I was not "answering for" studentoftheword. I merely clarified for you because it appeared you believed studentoftheword quoted "leaders associated with the Toronto blessing" when, in fact, studentoftheword quoted from gotquestions.org and it was gotquestions.org which quoted "leaders associated with the Toronto blessing".

Hope/pray you have a blessed day.

 

[RolloTamasi]

I was not "answering for" studentoftheword. I merely clarified for you because it appeared you believed studentoftheword quoted "leaders associated with the Toronto blessing" when, in fact, studentoftheword quoted from gotquestions.org and it was gotquestions.org which quoted "leaders associated with the Toronto blessing".

Hope/pray you have a blessed day.

Well that's very nice of you to do that for me.
Thank you.
But I'm still waiting to hear from him.

 

[RolloTamasi]

I was not "answering for" studentoftheword. I merely clarified for you because it appeared you believed studentoftheword quoted "leaders associated with the Toronto blessing" when, in fact, studentoftheword quoted from gotquestions.org and it was gotquestions.org which quoted "leaders associated with the Toronto blessing".

Hope/pray you have a blessed day.

Oh, by the way, did you listen to the video I put up in this thread?
What do you think of it?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Oh, by the way, did you listen to the video I put up in this thread?

No I did not listen to the video and I generally do not click on video links in any forum except the music forum.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Drinking from the well is a common phrase today.
This well is the Holy Spirit and drinking from it will make you drunk in the Holy Spirit.
I don't know of anyone who means this literally.
It means getting filled up to the max with the Holy Spirit.
If it is worded as being "drunk in the Holy Spirit", I don't see a problem with that.
Unless, of course, you are a legalist.

"Drunk" in the Spirit is an oxymoron. A truer figure of speech would be "sober in the Spirit." Nowhere in scripture are we taught to be drunk in the Spirit. Filled, yes; but not drunk.

 

[Blik]

For those people whose kingdom is the world, not the kingdom of heaven, alcohol is a huge part of it. There are businesses in every single town devoted to alcohol consumption and scripture does not rule out taking a glass of wine. For those of us whose true home is with the Lord, we need to be reminded that if we use alcohol, it must be done wisely.

I am a diet controlled diabetic, I have had to study nutrition. The Lord is very interested in what we choose to put in our bodies as we learn in the book of Daniel. The world has not only fed us alcohol, but unhealthy fleshly type foods. The world processes and changes almost every food we can buy, especially all grains. Our processed foods are wreaking havoc with our hormones that control our moods. It is a way of keeping us as drunks. It is important to the Lord that we choose whole grain bread and not bread from the ruined wheat of white bread.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Being filled with the Spirit is the exact opposite of being drunk; it means sobriety.

Correct. Paul was contrasting the effects of alcohol and the effects of the Holy Spirit. If one is "under the influence" of alcohol obviously one is not under the control of the Holy Spirit. And those who are Spirit-filled are indeed sober, watchful, wide awake, and always on guard against the wiles of the devil. All the craziness from the Charismatic Movement has simply made Christianity a joke. The meaning of Spirit-filled has been perverted.

 

[RolloTamasi]

Correct. Paul was contrasting the effects of alcohol and the effects of the Holy Spirit. If one is "under the influence" of alcohol obviously one is not under the control of the Holy Spirit. And those who are Spirit-filled are indeed sober, watchful, wide awake, and always on guard against the wiles of the devil. All the craziness from the Charismatic Movement has simply made Christianity a joke. The meaning of Spirit-filled has been perverted.

You do not sound like a happy, joyful person.
Are you a Christian?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are you a Christian?

Yes I am a Christian but not a crazy Charismatic.

 

[RolloTamasi]

Yes I am a Christian but not a crazy Charismatic.

Do you think there are other charismatics besides crazy charismatics?

 

[RolloTamasi]

Yes I am a Christian but not a crazy Charismatic.

By the way, did you listen to my video I posted in post #20?
I haven't gotten any response on it so I wonder if anyone listened to it?
You might wanna be careful, it is charismatic.

 

[RolloTamasi]

More news on my front, I attend Lakewood Church every Sunday morning via the internet on you tube.

 

[Lafftur]

The Holy Spirit Laughter is VERY REAL and is DEFINITELY The Holy Spirit. So much joy…cleansing and refreshing joy - absolutely FABULOUS!

I’m very familiar with this Holy Laughter and is the reason for my name “Lafftur.”

I’d rather be drunk in the Holy Spirit and called a fool by people then to speak against the Holy Spirit and be called a fool by God.

 

[1ofthem]

The Holy Spirit Laughter is VERY REAL and is DEFINITELY The Holy Spirit. So much joy…cleansing and refreshing joy - absolutely FABULOUS!

I’m very familiar with this Holy Laughter and is the reason for my name “Lafftur.”

I’d rather be drunk in the Holy Spirit and called a fool by people then to speak against the Holy Spirit and be called a fool by God.

That video shows complete blasphemy. Anyone who thinks that is the Spirit of God moving in that service on that video better hit their knees and pray that the Lord forgive them and enlighten them to have at least a little discernment.

The Spirit of God was nowhere near those people and was not in that service. However, Satan had a front-row seat there. I can assure you the devil was right there in the midst laughing with and at them.

 

[Nehemiah6]

By the way, did you listen to my video I posted in post #20?
I haven't gotten any response on it so I wonder if anyone listened to it?
You might wanna be careful, it is charismatic.

With all due respect, Rollo, I do not watch any posted videos anywhere. And lest you misunderstand, Charismatics are also believers. Just a little crazy. But the "Toronto Blessing" went overboard from the reports I read. Do you really think the Holy Spirit would have Christians barking like dogs?

"The Toronto Blessing is a supposed outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the people of the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship Church, formerly the Toronto Airport Vineyard Church. On January 20, 1994, a Pentecostal pastor named Randy Clark spoke at the church and gave his testimony of how he would get “drunk” in the Spirit and laugh uncontrollably. In response to this testimony, the congregation erupted in pandemonium with people laughing, growling, dancing, shaking, barking like dogs, and even being stuck in positions of paralysis. These experiences were attributed to the Holy Spirit entering people’s bodies. The pastor of the church, John Arnott, referred to it as a big Holy Spirit party. The moniker “Toronto Blessing” was given, and the church was soon in the international spotlight."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Toronto-blessing.html

 

[Aaron56]

Kenneth Copeland? He was the guy that “blew away COVID with hellfire“ in April 2020.

I assume he lost his “ministry” since then, right? [/sarcasm]

 

[justbyfaith]

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,"—Ephesians 5:17-18

I often hear these verses used to support the idea of getting "drunk in the spirit." However, it doesn't have anything to do with getting drunk; it means the opposite. Being filled with the Spirit is the exact opposite of being drunk; it means sobriety. We have so many scriptures that teach us to be sober and awake. I can't understand at all how some people insist God wants us to get "drunk" in the Spirit—unless they deliberately ignore all these scriptures:

"Be sober, be watchful; your adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour."—1 Peter 5:8

"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, stay sober, put your hope fully in the grace brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"—1 Peter 1:13

"Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober."—1 Thessalonians 5:6

"But we, since we are of the day, let us be sober,"—1 Thessalonians 5:8

"For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself too highly, beyond what you should think, but to think soberly, as God has imparted to each one a measure of faith."—Romans 12:3

Jesus speaks of the New Covenant as being new wine in new wineskins (Matthew 9:14-17)...

Also, I believe that this verse speaks to me of "the new wine of the Holy Spirit", so to speak...

Joe 1:5, Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

Then there is the fact that the people thought that the disciples were drunk on the day of Pentecost...

Act 2:13, Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14, But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15, For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

 

[justbyfaith]

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,"—Ephesians 5:17-18

I often hear these verses used to support the idea of getting "drunk in the spirit." However, it doesn't have anything to do with getting drunk; it means the opposite. Being filled with the Spirit is the exact opposite of being drunk; it means sobriety. We have so many scriptures that teach us to be sober and awake. I can't understand at all how some people insist God wants us to get "drunk" in the Spirit—unless they deliberately ignore all these scriptures:

"Be sober, be watchful; your adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour."—1 Peter 5:8

"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, stay sober, put your hope fully in the grace brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"—1 Peter 1:13

"Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober."—1 Thessalonians 5:6

"But we, since we are of the day, let us be sober,"—1 Thessalonians 5:8

"For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself too highly, beyond what you should think, but to think soberly, as God has imparted to each one a measure of faith."—Romans 12:3

When someone is drunk in the Spirit, for a brief moment in church, it lends to being very sober in your everyday life.

Because being drunk in the Spirit is passing; but the effects of it are very often the fruit of the Spirit...

And people I have known who have been drunk in the Spirit are normally very sober in everyday life.

 

[Jocund]

That video shows some stage hypnotism tricks. The power of suggestion, etc. The same type of technique was used in the Milgrim experiment (albeit in Milgrim's case for the application of pain rather than shared laughter).

I'm not sure what to think of it. Is it inherently bad? It's not dissimilar to the effects of going to a comedy show (though likely with more wholesome material being read). Sometimes people need a good laugh. Never understood the appeal of comedy shows myself, but goodhearted laughter is good.

The concept of "drunk on the Holy Spirit" does seem contradictory, but on a deeper look it seems to have parallels with Plato's Allegory of the Cave and can make sense if observed as a euphemism.

In Plato's Allegory of the Cave, people were tied down and made to watch shadows on the wall. Everything they experienced in life was through these shadows cast on the wall by a fire controlled by prison guards. At one point, someone escapes their chains and escapes the Cave. They see things as they truly are, and not merely as the shadows. The sunlight blinds them for a time but they adjust and learn to see. After returning to the Cave to try to convince the other prisoners to escape their bonds and experience the world as it actually is, their tale of the outside world is met with ridicule and skepticism. These chained people still only understand the world as shadows. And worse, as a result of seeing the sunlit world the freed person lost their finely attuned senses of the shadows. Their eyes haven't adjusted back and they appear disoriented and drunk as a result of being "recalibrated" to a different plane of existence.

To appear disoriented (or drunk) when reintegrating into the realm of shadows can make sense. We see Paul become literally blinded by his experience. Maybe there's room for something there? I'm still thinking on this one.

 

[soberxp]

If you can be sober , you will understand. it's not meaningful to argue about drunk. drink.