A racist God?

[randyk]

Tennessee doctrine states that Canaan was cursed with black skin and that he would be subject to Shem and Japheth in slavery because of that curse.

God further indicates His prejudice against certain negroes when He says this:

Zec 14:21, Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

I am merely playing the devil's advocate here in order to provoke a response; not advocating prejudice.

Thoughts and/or opinions, anyone?

In the current environment that's really going to go over well! To start with, there are mixed blacks and asians in my family. I have no interest in showing an ounce of racial prejudice, for the simple reason that I love my relatives.

2ndly, racism certainly is a hot topic now, and well worth delving into. I do believe God puts curses on individuals and families, because He did this with the 1st man and woman. When they coveted something from the Tree of knowledge, and lusted after a life apart from God's control, they disseminated this nature down to their children, who were unfortunately brought up with the result of this spirit/flesh mixture. Since that time, all men and women have to struggle with--Should I obey God or should I follow after that evil compulsion within me?

I don't know what kind of curses may continue from Noah's time, or from his children and grandchildren? If the curse of sin extends today from Adam, then certainly the sin of Canaan could continue until today, to some extent.

But to characterize people as evil simply because they descend from someone who made a mistakes many thousands of years ago sounds silly. Let's just focus on who we are and what our weaknesses are, and deal with that. I don't believe that these curses and tendencies have to determine what we do. In Christ we can overcome all sins--not be perfect, but overcome the compulsion to make wrong decisions.

 

[justbyfaith]

In the current environment that's really going to go over well! To start with, there are mixed blacks and asians in my family. I have no interest in showing an ounce of racial prejudice, for the simple reason that I love my relatives.

2ndly, racism certainly is a hot topic now, and well worth delving into. I do believe God puts curses on individuals and families, because He did this with the 1st man and woman. When they coveted something from the Tree of knowledge, and lusted after a life apart from God's control, they disseminated this nature down to their children, who were unfortunately brought up with the result of this spirit/flesh mixture. Since that time, all men and women have to struggle with--Should I obey God or should I follow after that evil compulsion within me?

I don't know what kind of curses may continue from Noah's time, or from his children and grandchildren? If the curse of sin extends today from Adam, then certainly the sin of Canaan could continue until today, to some extent.

But to characterize people as evil simply because they descend from someone who made a mistakes many thousands of years ago sounds silly. Let's just focus on who we are and what our weaknesses are, and deal with that. I don't believe that these curses and tendencies have to determine what we do. In Christ we can overcome all sins--not be perfect, but overcome the compulsion to make wrong decisions.

I do believe that certain sins can be prevalent in certain "families" of people...

Stereotypes have some sort of basis in reality or they wouldn't exist.

 

[Lanolin]

tenessee doctrine..weird. Also rubbish
The curse was never 'black skin'. The Canaanites werent all one colour.

The curse was actually to be a servant or servants to his brothers. See Genesis 9:24-27

Why was Canaan cursed? Because Ham, his father watched his parents having sex, and told his brothers to go and watch! . God (and Noah) didnt approve of PORN.

 

[justbyfaith]

tenessee doctrine..weird. Also rubbish
The curse was never 'black skin'. The Canaanites werent all one colour.

The curse was actually to be a servant or servants to his brothers. See Genesis 9:24-27

Why was Canaan cursed? Because Ham, his father watched his parents having sex, and told his brothers to go and watch! . God didnt approve of PORN.

Have not black people traditionally been slaves to those who are white?

 

[Lanolin]

The Israelites would have had some Egyptian blood in them because Joseph had married an Egyptian, and Moses was also brought up in Egypt, He married a Midianite, Zipporah and while Hebrews were slaves in Egypt, they may have intermarried there.

But in general they were told to marry within their tribe. Many actually married their cousins.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

But to characterize people as evil simply because they descend from someone who made a mistakes many thousands of years ago sounds silly.

Hmmm . . . that "silliness" is the Purpose for Christ's being sent to earth. Moreover, this is the focus of His Work, which is Circumcision of the Heart, the removal of the Curse of the Lord.

The Purpose of Christ (To Redeem His Elect of the Curse)
Galatians 3:13-14 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith."

The Work of Christ (The Removal of the Curse)
Colossians 2:11-13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

The Effect of Christ (Once the Curse has been Cut Away and Removed Permanently)
Romans 12:2 NLT - "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

 

[Lanolin]

Have not black people traditionally been slaves to those who are white?

indont know you tell me, but skin colour is not what the Bible talks about...it doesnt say your skin changes colour when you are a slave lol

 

[Lanolin]

Hebrews were slaves in Egypt and its not mentioned their skin colour

 

[Lanolin]

In the Bible, slaves wore earrings to denote they were slaves to their masters.

 

[randyk]

I do believe that certain sins can be prevalent in certain "families" of people...

Stereotypes have some sort of basis in reality or they wouldn't exist.

I agree. My wife has a friend--don't see her often now--who is African American. The last time she came to our house there had been a tension between her and myself over politics, due to the current state of racial hostilities.

And so I tried to change the subject. I was trying to be polite and suggested Black athletes are known to be racially superior to White athletes in sports--I love sports.

She looked with me with hate in her eyes, gathered his kids, and said, "We're leaving this racist home!" I never understood that, but since then it's been explained to me that Blacks were told they were bred as slaves for hard labor. And that's why they're often so strong.

I guess somewhere in my education I'd heard something like that, but that's certainly not what I meant! Anyway, that's what we've come to here in the US--a barrage of hate towards White People from African Americans. Forget the fact all of my grandparents came to the US from other countries. Our family has had zero to do with American slavery or prejudice towards minorities here in the US.

I do agree that sin tendencies are passed down from family member to family member. Just like physical DNA is passed down, I believe there is a kind of "spiritual DNA" passed down.

It's something we all have to overcome from our forefathers. And yes, it doesn't hurt us to make ourselves aware of these weaknesses. We may have an alcoholic in our background, or people who are perverted. We need to know our own weaknesses so as to combat them through the power of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

indont know you tell me, but skin colour is not what the Bible talks about...it doesnt say your skin changes colour when you are a slave lol

The descendants of Ham were known to be black in history.

 

[justbyfaith]

But really, it is just a shade of melanin...

I think that people who make an issue of race today are really the ones who are racist.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

She looked with me with hate in her eyes, gathered his kids, and said, "We're leaving this racist home!"

My former, and last [Black] girlfriend from years ago absolutely berated me for saying the unthinkable "I love the Black community." Her cursing at me was shocking.

I've never had any support for caring for others who are not like me. Not from my own kind or from "theirs."

We are in some dark and crazy times.

 

[CherieR]

Tennessee doctrine states that Canaan was cursed with black skin and that he would be subject to Shem and Japheth in slavery because of that curse.

God further indicates His prejudice against certain negroes when He says this:

Zec 14:21, Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

I am merely playing the devil's advocate here in order to provoke a response; not advocating prejudice.

Thoughts and/or opinions, anyone?

I disagree. Black skin is not a curse. It is beautiful skin color. All other skin colors are beautiful too. God is not prejudice against anyone. God loves everyone.
We all are connected for we all come from Adam and Eve and are created by one God.

 

[Jon-E]

A racist God?
I've heard non-Christians accuse Christianity of being bigoted because our beliefs view gays as sinners, or non-Christians as lost. Things like that.

And then there are legitimate Christians who read about God killing everybody in the Flood, and killing all of Israel's enemies in Canaan. They don't blink an eye reading it, but they scarcely raise a question about it being "genocide" at a Bible Study!

So let me suggest that the OT quarantine of Israel against pagan influence was not bigotry, nor racism. It was not ethnic pride. Rather, God wanted to begin His testimony of Eternal Salvation among the nations by producing in Israel the initial example of it.

To do that, He had to separate His religion from all other religions, and provide a consistent set of beliefs, which were clearly incompatible with pagan religions. And so, He did not let the people of Israel fraternize and intermarry with these pagans, so as to maintain a true testimony to who God is and what His religion comprises among the nations.

Since God planned to expand the message of His Salvation to all nations out of the testimony of Israel's national history there would come a time when Israel could fraternize and intermarry among the nations. But that was only after God's true religion had been properly sent to, so as to be received by, the nations. Then, the Jews could intermarry and fraternize with those among the nations who shared the belief in the one true God and in the one true religion.

In this, there is consistency from OT to NT. Once it came time for Israel to send the testimony of their national history under God to the nations, and the nations started receiving it, then the door was opened to international partnership between godly people of all nations and races.

This is just being true to a religion, and has nothing to do with racism or bigotry. This is the consistent standard of the God of Israel, and also of the God of Jesus.
Jesus was the important point where Israel's historical testimony came to a head, and was ready to be delivered to the nations. And that's because that was the point where Israel had so failed that pagan nations became equally qualified to receive the mercy that Israel so sorely needed.

And Jesus became the focal point giving mercy both to Israel and to the nations. They came to be viewed as standing on the same ground, equally in need of mercy.

Paul did not fear being called a racist or bigot when he agreed with assigning certain sins to a particular people.

"For there are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped; men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are alway liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth." (Titus 1:10-14, ERV)

Paul did not hesitate to call a certain people, the Cretans, names in v12 when he says the Cretan prophet was true in his descriptions of the people of Crete. But, there is no question the three sins listed are clearly seen as sin in Scripture. But you list "gays" without any description whatever of the sin you see that fits the biblical definition of sin. All men are sinners, even gays; but gays are not specifically sinners because they love other males. So, Christians run the risk of being called "bigots" for that reason.

The word "bigot" in the oline Oxford -
"A person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

The word "reason" in the online Oxford -
"The power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic."

I do not see a noun "gay" anywhere in the Bible, nor condemnation of a male loving a male including physical intimacy. Paul went on to say in the above: "not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth."

That sounds like the Pharisee of old, "Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth". The wicked Cretans were listening to the Judaizers.

On the word "alway", the ISBE states: "ol'-way, ol'-waz (archaic and poetic): Properly applied to acts or states perpetually occurring, but not necessarily continuous."

 

[Magenta]

A racist God?
I've heard non-Christians accuse Christianity of being bigoted because our
beliefs view gays as sinners, or non-Christians as lost. Things like that.

Homosexuality and religious orientation are not races.

Reminds me of how some Christians here would accuse me of being a racist because
I spoke of what Islam actually teaches. Islam is not a race either! Of course, if those who
wish to oppose Christianity were honest about their beliefs, they would see that what they
call tolerance is really intolerant. However, their hypocrisy blinds them to the truth of their position.

 

[CherieR]

But really, it is just a shade of melanin...

I think that people who make an issue of race today are really the ones who are racist.

Depends on what you mean by make an issue of race. We all are created equal and no race is better than any other race. To say one race is better than another is racism in my view.

 

[randyk]

The Israelites would have had some Egyptian blood in them because Joseph had married an Egyptian, and Moses was also brought up in Egypt, He married a Midianite, Zipporah and while Hebrews were slaves in Egypt, they may have intermarried there.

But in general they were told to marry within their tribe. Many actually married their cousins.

Perhaps, but I don't think they were into "inbreeding," since incest was prohibited under the Law. This is a good case to show that God, even with His "separatist" Law, had no thought about preference for a particular race.

It was a religious matter, as well as a practical matter. Until true religion could get out into the masses, it was not wise to intermarry into a culture that is incompatible with the Law of Moses. Even if an individual in a pagan culture was essentially "godly," friends, relatives, and acquaintances likely would not be.

It is interesting to note that at various times, God's People, including Israel, Abraham, Ruth, Esther, etc. ended up having to live, for one reason or another, within a pagan culture. And they survived, religiously.

And Lot, even though he was "tormented in his righteous soul," and even though he eventually had to leave Sodom, was able to coexist there with his family for some time without personal compromise. Abraham himself took no thought in allowing his nephew Lot move into the valley, and outside of his own sacred grounds, to make a living near to the heathen.

Thanks.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Ezra chapter 3 talks about Israel being returned from Babylon as "one man to Jerusalem" and the number of Israel was quite small. No doubt, they had been Purified. Thus, the question is: Who, exactly, is Israel throughout the Bible . . . and this question should be applied to the Sadducees, Pharisees, and teachers of the law as described in the New Testament. Who, exactly were these people?

 

[Blik]

Most of these posts are speaking of the extremes of racism. God is a God of balance, the only extreme of God is about sin and rebellion.

God created a family from the beginning. The family is the base of all governments. The family becomes a city, and cities group into nations. The way of the Lord for the family is to support and help each other. These divisions of people result in certain characteristics that are common to that division.

It is extreme to say that all people of a certain nation or family has identical characteristics and that is the bases of racism. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure".—Php 2:12-13.

We are to listen to ALL of God's words, we are to see and understand the balance.