If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
So my thinking is Satan will be loosed when the anti-christ is revealed since Revelation says Satan is loosed to 'deceive the nations'--Satan will work thru him as he did with Hitler. This is an idea that is forming in my head--I need to study it further--so many things coming to mind because of this thread!

3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:3–10
So satan was let loose from prison sometime around 1930 and then was put back in prison again???

The Second Coming of Christ brings satan's earthly throne and deception to an end.

Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.
8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His Coming.
2 Thess ch2
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:3–10
So what is restraining him before The Return? ...The HOLY SPIRIT from Pentecost. "Bound" ..."Restrained" ...same thing.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
So what is restraining him before The Return? ...The HOLY SPIRIT from Pentecost. "Bound" ..."Restrained" ...same thing.
Restraining and Bound are not the same thing - Bound means satan is unable to do his evil bidding.

Restrain means to hold back and again is similiar to Barred.

The Holy Spirit will not allow satan to complete the Final Grand Deception until the Father says - now.
Which is directly connected to the LORD's Second Coming.

"But concerning that day and hour, no one knows, not even the angels of the heavens, nor the Son, except the Father only."
Matthew 24:36

PEACE
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
Restraining and Bound are not the same thing - Bound means satan is unable to do his evil bidding.

Restrain means to hold back and again is similiar to Barred.

The Holy Spirit will not allow satan to complete the Final Grand Deception until the Father says - now.
Which is directly connected to the LORD's Second Coming.

"But concerning that day and hour, no one knows, not even the angels of the heavens, nor the Son, except the Father only."
Matthew 24:36

PEACE
So you are going to ignore that 2 Thessalonians 2:3–10 just said satan is restrained before The Return? What you saying? that satan is restrained for a thousand years then The Return ...then another thousand years with satan "bound"?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
So you are going to ignore that 2 Thessalonians 2:3–10 just said satan is restrained before The Return? What you saying? that satan is restrained for a thousand years then The Return ...then another thousand years with satan "bound"?
Absolutely not - i fully agree with 2 Thess ch2

Satan is restrained, but not bound and the Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit is restraining satan so that he is revealed at God's timing of Order of Scripture.

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you?
And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

SEE Brother - satan is on earth working and deceiving the nations, now - today and up until the Second Coming of Christ.

It is all there in 2 Thess ch2
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
So satan was let loose from prison sometime around 1930 and then was put back in prison again???

The Second Coming of Christ brings satan's earthly throne and deception to an end.

Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.
8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His Coming.
2 Thess ch2
I've already stated that Satan and His cohorts are still 'princes of this world' and can influence and cause havoc on this earth.

"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour."--1st John 2:18

Hitler is one of many anti-christs that have arisen--he deceived a nation, the anti-Christ on the other hand will deceive many nations,

How will the anti-christ do this?

"The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,"--2 Thessalonians 2:9

"He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore."--Revelation 20:8
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
I've already stated that Satan and His cohorts are still 'princes of this world' and can influence and cause havoc on this earth.

"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour."--1st John 2:18

Hitler is one of many anti-christs that have arisen--he deceived a nation, the anti-Christ on the other hand will deceive many nations,

How will the anti-christ do this?

"The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,"--2 Thessalonians 2:9

"He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore."--Revelation 20:8
SEE Post #485

Revelation 20:8 is AFTER satan is loosed from prison which has not ocurred.

Satan has not been locked up in prison yet = only when the Second Coming of Christ will satan be bound, shut up, sealed and locked up.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
I've already stated that Satan and His cohorts are still 'princes of this world' and can influence and cause havoc on this earth.

"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour."--1st John 2:18

Hitler is one of many anti-christs that have arisen--he deceived a nation, the anti-Christ on the other hand will deceive many nations,

How will the anti-christ do this?

"The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,"--2 Thessalonians 2:9

"He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore."--Revelation 20:8
You cannot have satan loosed from prison until he is first locked up in prison.

Satan will not be locked up until the Second Coming of Christ = 2 Thess ch2 , 1 John ch2 , Revelation 20:1-6
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
I've already stated that Satan and His cohorts are still 'princes of this world' and can influence and cause havoc on this earth.

"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour."--1st John 2:18

Hitler is one of many anti-christs that have arisen--he deceived a nation, the anti-Christ on the other hand will deceive many nations,

How will the anti-christ do this?

"The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,"--2 Thessalonians 2:9

"He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore."--Revelation 20:8
i shouldn't even be typing this idea ...but could the two atomic bombs be considered Fire from Heaven?
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
You cannot have satan loosed from prison until he is first locked up in prison.

Satan will not be locked up until the Second Coming of Christ = 2 Thess ch2 , 1 John ch2 , Revelation 20:1-6
David your using the same verses I quoted to come to a different conclusion--I am confident in my position as evidently you are in yours--I think we've hit a wall at this point--I'll virtually shake hands and agree to disagree.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
David your using the same verses I quoted to come to a different conclusion--I am confident in my position as evidently you are in yours--I think we've hit a wall at this point--I'll virtually shake hands and agree to disagree.
Follow the Scripture - 2 Thess ch2 , 1 John ch2 , Matt ch24 , Revelation chapters 1,2, 6, 12, 13, 19-20

1.) satan is not bound, he is free to roam about and deceive the nations/world
2.) satan is restrain by the Holy Spirit unto th etime set forth from the Father for satan's revealing himself to the world
3.) shortly after satan is revealed to the world, the Father sends the Son = Second Coming of Christ
4.) Christ blasts satan with the Brightness of His Coming and satan is dethroned and locked up, bound and gagged for 1,000 years
5.) the Resurrection of the Just = Revelation 20:1-6, 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 John 3:1-3 , 1 Cor ch15, Hebrews 9:28
6.) After the 1,000 Years satan must be loosed one last time
7.) Fire comes out from God and devours Gog & Magog
8.) Resurrection of the Unjust - Death & Hell cast into the Lake of Fire - Revelation 20:7-14
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
David your using the same verses I quoted to come to a different conclusion--I am confident in my position as evidently you are in yours--I think we've hit a wall at this point--I'll virtually shake hands and agree to disagree.
Good Nite Sister - PEACE
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
i shouldn't even be typing this idea ...but could the two atomic bombs be considered Fire from Heaven?
No I don't think so--the fire from heaven is the same fire that God sent on Sodom and Gomorrah and the same fire He sent on the rebellious Israelites in the desert--if you read Isaiah and other OT prophecies, it speaks of the fire God will send on the earth--people usually mistake this fire as the Lake of Fire, .e.g 'the smoke of their torment goes up for ever, for those who WORSHIP (present tense) the beast'-- they are not the same thing-- God is going to send literal fire on the earth--to destroy both it and the ungodly.

"Then fire from the Lord burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp."--Numbers 11:1

"Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame."--Isaiah 13:8

"But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.--2nd Peter 3:7
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,929
1,258
113
Christ is not the "first resurrection" found in Revelation 20 but he is why it happens.

Rev 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrections separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,929
1,258
113
Revelation 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest of the dead have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This also proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrection separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

Part of the dead resurrect and then "the rest of the dead" will resurrect after a period of time. That's the dead resurrecting in two parts separated by a period of time.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.




Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"



What we learn from both verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt. Two resurrections! Never is there a single resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous at the same time.



We also see here that the saved/righteous are resurrected first, and at some time later the unsaved are resurrected and judged.

What these verses do not tell us is how much time is inbetween the two. For that we have to go to Revelation 20 where Christ tells John there is a thousand years inbetween. "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". There we have the dead separated into two groups. One who are saved and will be resurrected and judged first, like Dan 12:2 and Joh 5:29 show, and the other group that has to wait until the thousand years are finished before they are resurrected and judged.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Based on the other scriptures that speak of two resurrections we know Luke is not saying the just and unjust resurrect at the same time but just that both groups will experience a resurrection.



This is Premill through and through.

Amill errs on the first two passages because it ignores the information in Revelation 20 about the time inbetween and wrongly interprets that the saved and unsaved are resurrected and judged at the same time on the same day which simply isn't the case. This is why one needs to involve all passages that deal with the resurrections and judgments rather than focusing on some and not others, namely information found in Revelation. During the canonization process it was an Amill that did not want Revelation to be canonized. Revelation supports the Premill type of view so it's no surprise there was an effort to deny it's canonization.
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
how can satan be bound after The Return if JESUS is going to destroy him?

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
So what is restraining him before The Return? ...The HOLY SPIRIT from Pentecost. "Bound" ..."Restrained" ...same thing.

Was this meant for me or David?:unsure:

I was thinking about this as I was reading it--I think personally bound and restrained mean the same thing--since one verse uses the word restrain and one used bound--same, same.

What do you mean about the Holy Spirit at Pentecost? I might have missed a post--if I did please send # of post, thanks!