Saved by Water

[KelbyofGod]

FreeGrace2 said:
In fact, there are NO verses that teach that believers can become sin-free during this life.

John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (<--that means the sins would be gone)

Acts 22:16 KJV
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (<--That also means the sins would be gone)

Have you considered that "Being sin-free" is NOT the same as "Being able to STAY sin-free"?

And to go even further... "Being sin-free" is NOT the same as "Being saved". Adam was sin free before he sinned... did you consider Adam "saved"? I'm guessing you don't. People need to stop using these terms as if they are directly interchangeable.

Love in Jesus to all who read this,
Kelby

 

[justbyfaith]

you create an unbiblical doctrine when you say water baptism saves

It is an entirely biblical doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

classic nah nah nah nah nah post

congratulations on your 5th birthday

Mat 18:3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[justbyfaith]

which is why I refute your continued Oneness doctrine

You have never been able to refute Oneness doctrine.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Mat 18:3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Gotta like that reply.

 

[SophieT]

Mat 18:3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

behold. thou hast copy/pasted a verse from King James latest publication

thou hast done good. now thou knowest what thou must do but the Lord perhaps dost not want you shoving any of the other kingdom offspring away as thou are wont to do

 

[SophieT]

You have never been able to refute Oneness doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

behold. thou hast copy/pasted a verse from King James latest publication

thou hast done good. now thou knowest what thou must do but the Lord perhaps dost not want you shoving any of the other kingdom offspring away as thou are wont to do

I do find that those who reject the kjv are not enduring sound doctrine but are heaping to themselves teachers (in the translators of other versions) to tell them what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3).

Their excuse that they did not like the thee's and thou's is not going to cut it for them on their day of judgment.

 

[justbyfaith]

I see that you are laughing because you know that what I am saying is true and the Holy Spirit is convicting you that you have offered no sound refutation for anything Oneness; and yet continue to reject Oneness doctrine as though you had done so..

I obviously struck a nerve.

 

[SophieT]

I do find that those who reject the kjv are heaping to themselves teachers (in the translators of other versions) to tell them what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3).

Their excuse that they did not like the thee's and thou's is not going to cut it for them on their day of judgment.

since I was brought up on KJ, I probably know it better than you

and by the way, King James is not going to judge anyone but he is already judged

behold I shall now send you into the oblivion of those I ignore by choice from whence you came. that's twice now

 

[SophieT]

Wrong again.

one of the most bizarre things said yet by these oneness people

saying that Hearts being purified and sins being remitted are two different things.

the entire doctrine would have the cart pulling the donkey

 

[KelbyofGod]

behold. thou hast copy/pasted a verse from King James latest publication

thou hast done good. now thou knowest what thou must do but the Lord perhaps dost not want you shoving any of the other kingdom offspring away as thou are wont to do

I just quote out of the KJV. It's what I'm used to, and people are welcome to look up the references in their preferred versions.

I'm glad you continue to refer to yourself as kingdom offspring as you most assuredly are.

Even though I'm worried about offending the little ones, I'm not as worried about someone taking offense as I am about multitudes going care-free into destruction for lack of someone speaking the truth clearly. You may not agree with what I say now, but you've experienced some of what I talk about and I know you can pray and let God show you more.

And I still do not withdraw the compliments I gave you. Although... I will add that it wouldn't hurt if you were a little 'softer' in your mannerisms. However, I'd rather that you stay hot or cold over seeing you slip into "agreeably lukewarm"... blehh!

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

I just quote out of the KJV. It's what I'm used to, and people are welcome to look up the references in their preferred versions.

I'm glad you continue to refer to yourself as kingdom offspring as you most assuredly are.

Even though I'm worried about offending the little ones, I'm not as worried about someone taking offense as I am about multitudes going care-free into destruction for lack of someone speaking the truth clearly. You may not agree with what I say now, but you've experienced some of what I talk about and I know you can pray and let God show you more.

And I still do not withdraw the compliments I gave you. Although... I will add that it wouldn't hurt if you were a little 'softer' in your mannerisms. However, I'd rather that you stay hot or cold over seeing you slip into "agreeably lukewarm"... blehh!

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

@SophieT,
My apologies. I mistakenly thought you were replying to one of my postings.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
In fact, there are NO verses that teach that believers can become sin-free during this life.

John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (<--that means the sins would be gone)

Why would you think "takes away the sin of the world" means becoming sin-free??? John the baptist was referring to the judgment of sin. iow, the sin debt WAS GOING to be taken away when Jesus went to the cross.

Acts 22:16 KJV
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (<--That also means the sins would be gone)

Ditto here.

Have you considered that "Being sin-free" is NOT the same as "Being able to STAY sin-free"?

What the phrase means is to be free from the debt of sin.

Consider 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Since Jesus died for the sins of the world, God does NOT count people's sins against them.

Do you believe this?

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is an entirely biblical doctrine.

If water baptism saves people, then Paul was a total failure at evangelization.

1 Cor 1-
14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

If water baptism is a requirement, Paul would have been DERELICT in his commission.

If he thought water baptism was required, his answer to the jailer was also a total failure.

The jailer asked: Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
Paul answered: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE SAVED.

How is that not clear enough?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have never been able to refute Oneness doctrine.

Ha. Every verse that mentions God the Father and God the Son, shows that there are 2 Persons.

Oneness doctrine is a doctrine of schizophrenia.

Gen 1-
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Anyone who talks to himself, in the plural no less, has mental problems. Fact.

Eph 1:20 - he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

If you don't see 2 Persons next to each other, you just don't want to.

But it's clear nonetheless.

 

[justbyfaith]

If water baptism saves people, then Paul was a total failure at evangelization.

1 Cor 1-
14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

If water baptism is a requirement, Paul would have been DERELICT in his commission.

If he thought water baptism was required, his answer to the jailer was also a total failure.

The jailer asked: Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
Paul answered: believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE SAVED.

How is that not clear enough?

Paul baptized the Philippian jailer.

And in 1 Corinthians 1....it should be clear that while Paul baptized only Crispus and Gaius and Stephanas, in Corinth, that many were actually baptized in Corinth; which indicates that Paul may have adopted the same method as Jesus in John 4:2 when it came to baptizing his converts.

So, while Paul himself was not specifically sent to baptize, that did not preclude that baptism was not important when it came to his doctrine or even how he specifically dealt with people concerning baptism.

I am not sent specifically to baptize...I am an internet preacher...which does not preclude that I do not preach the necessity of baptism.

Paul preached that baptism would result in coming up out of the water to walk in newness of life, in Romans 6:1-4. So, baptism has something at least to do with sanctification, according to scripture...

 

[justbyfaith]

Ha. Every verse that mentions God the Father and God the Son, shows that there are 2 Persons.

Oneness doctrine is a doctrine of schizophrenia.

Gen 1-
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Anyone who talks to himself, in the plural no less, has mental problems. Fact.

Eph 1:20 - he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

If you don't see 2 Persons next to each other, you just don't want to.

But it's clear nonetheless.

I was talking about the aspect of Oneness doctrine that has to do with baptism in Jesus' Name.

I have a specific doctrine on the Trinity that does not contradict Oneness doctrine and neither does it contradict Trinitarianism (will post a link shortly).

It is that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not separate but they are distinct; in that the Father is a Spirit inhabiting eternity without flesh while the Son is the same Spirit inhabiting a body of human flesh.

That the Father is the only true God and that Jesus the Son is the only true God incarnated.

I don't think that these concepts can be refuted with anything in holy scripture.

You are welcome to try.

 

[justbyfaith]

The promised link:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said:
In fact, there are NO verses that teach that believers can become sin-free during this life.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Now, I think that you have to read into this text your belief that this cannot happen except at glorification of the body; because in context it is speaking of something that is to be related as a rebuke towards people who are contrary in their doctrine.

At any rate, the following settles it for me (because I accept the veracity of the kjv's rendering of the following verse).

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

I would mention also the teaching in scripture that Jesus is coming back for a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish (Ephesians 5:26-27).

This would indicate that when He returns, He will have accomplished entire sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24) in all those who will not be left behind..

Then there is 1 John 3:3.

If we have a certain hope in Christ, that when He comes back we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is, that He will do that work ahead of time in that as we have this hope in Him we purify ourselves even as He is pure.

Which begs the question, How pure is Jesus Christ?