How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

I do not deny his words.


I deny neither the words of the Lord nor his power over death.


I do not deny the power of God. Jesus Christ conquered death, and dead people will be raised from the dead.

You are a false accuser.

You're really quite the study in human nature, David. I know I haven't posted much here until recently, but I read here almost every day, and I've seen how you respond to people who do not agree with you. Your fake religious "sweetness" goes to hell in a handbasket and the people you disagree with become antichrist.

Quite the contrary = you who like to deny God's words or add to them and take away will all attack me for i do not do those things.

Disagreeing with me is irrelevant to disagreeing with the word's of Christ.

pre-trib is a lie because it never came out of the Mouth of God

'soul sleep' is another lie that God never spoke. God only spoke of the physical body going to sleep = never the soul of man.

Here is another Word of God that you deny = Matthew 10:28

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[DavidTree]

Sigh. How long do you plan to falsely accuse me, David?

You accuse yourself by denying the words of Christ.

Here is another Word of God that you deny = Matthew 10:28

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[VARob]

Quite the contrary = you who like to deny God's words

This is not true.

or add to them and take away

This is not true.

will all attack me for i do not do those things.

You're the one on the attack, David.

Disagreeing with me is irrelevant to disagreeing with the word's of Christ.

Agreed. I disagree with you. I do not disagree with the words of Christ.

pre-trib is a lie because it never came out of the Mouth of God

Not in those exact words, but the pretrib rapture is there for those with eyes to see.

'soul sleep' is another lie that God never spoke.

"Soul sleep' is a derogatory term Calvin came up with because he believed the human soul was immortal, as you do. But the Bible defines death, and in death the person is dead, all of him.

God only spoke of the physical body going to sleep = never the soul of man.

That is simply not true.

Here is another Word of God that you deny = Matthew 10:28

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

I don't deny it at all. In fact that verse disproves the idea of the immortal soul. The soul can die.

 

[VARob]

You accuse yourself by denying the words of Christ.

You're a broken record. I do not deny the words of Christ.

Here is another Word of God that you deny = Matthew 10:28

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

See above.

 

[DavidTree]

This is not true.


This is not true.


You're the one on the attack, David.


Agreed. I disagree with you. I do not disagree with the words of Christ.


Not in those exact words, but the pretrib rapture is there for those with eyes to see.


"Soul sleep' is a derogatory term Calvin came up with because he believed the human soul was immortal, as you do. But the Bible defines death, and in death the person is dead, all of him.


That is simply not true.


I don't deny it at all. In fact that verse disproves the idea of the immortal soul. The soul can die.

PERFECT = Thank You for the evidence from your own mouth = PERFECT

 

[VARob]

PERFECT = Thank You for the evidence from your own mouth = PERFECT

That's a little vague, David. What are you talking about?

 

[DavidTree]

You're a broken record. I do not deny the words of Christ.


See above.

Your words of denial again "I don't deny it at all. In fact that verse disproves the idea of the immortal soul. The soul can die."

Where does God say the soul dies? God says "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul."

 

[VARob]

Your words of denial again "I don't deny it at all. In fact that verse disproves the idea of the immortal soul. The soul can die."

Where does God say the soul dies? God says "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul."

Finish the verse...

Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Hell in that verse is gehenna, and it's referring to the lake of fire. People who wind up in the lake of fire will burn up. They will perish.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The unsaved will perish, not live forever. In some places the OT refers to the fate of the wicked as being "cut off". They will perish.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Your heresy has been exposed for what it is = a lie because you deny His words.

Your whole argument is for one purpose to deny the words of the LORD and His Power over death.

"having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! "

So, the use of proper names in a passage demands the story told therein must be literal - without exception?

"Bramble", "Olive", and "Fig" are all proper names.

Therefore, in Jotham's story of the trees in Judges chapter 9 where Mr. Olive said he was unwilling to leave his fatness and rule over them, Mr. Fig said he was unwilling to leave his sweetness and rule over them, and Mr. Bramble said, "Aw shucks, fellas, I'll do it if ya want me to" ..we must conclude this story is literal, and that trees can talk, right or wrong?

 

[ewq1938]

Finish the verse...

Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Hell in that verse is gehenna, and it's referring to the lake of fire. People who wind up in the lake of fire will burn up. They will perish.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The unsaved will perish, not live forever. In some places the OT refers to the fate of the wicked as being "cut off". They will perish.

You and David are both annihilationists, as am I.

 

[VARob]

You and David are both annihilationists, as am I.

Which David? DavidTree, it seems, is NOT an annihilationist.

 

[GaryA]

Okay. Nothing really worthwhile in this thread.

"I'm out."

 

[DavidTree]

So, the use of proper names in a passage demands the story told therein must be literal - without exception?

"Bramble", "Olive", and "Fig" are all proper names.

Therefore, in Jotham's story of the trees in Judges chapter 9 where Mr. Olive said he was unwilling to leave his fatness and rule over them, Mr. Fig said he was unwilling to leave his sweetness and rule over them, and Mr. Bramble said, "Aw shucks, fellas, I'll do it if ya want me to" ..we must conclude this story is literal, and that trees can talk, right or wrong?

Thank you for the free laughter as it is crystal clear that Jotham told a parable just as the LORD did often.

Trees and bushes are were not created in the Image of God and God did not breath into their nostrils to become a Living Soul.

Whereas Lazarus and Abraham in fact were and still are Living Souls = Amen

 

[ewq1938]

Which David? DavidTree, it seems, is NOT an annihilationist.

I may have confused him with another member, sorry.

 

[VARob]

Thank you for the free laughter as it is crystal clear that Jotham told a parable just as the LORD did often.

Trees and bushes are were not created in the Image of God and God did not breath into their nostrils to become a Living Soul.

Whereas Lazarus and Abraham in fact were and still are Living Souls = Amen

Lazarus and Abraham are dead as doornails and will remain so until either the rapture (for Lazarus, assuming he lived past the day of Pentecost) or the resurrection of the just.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul in his day specifically said no one should be expecting to happen any time soon the glorious coming of Jesus in the clouds and our gathering together to Him

Quite the opposite. The apostolic churches believed in the imminent coming of Christ for the saints. Let's start with James: Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. (Jas 5:8)

Since all the apostles were of one mind, Paul concurred" For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Phil 3:20,21)

Paul himself personally said -- in the present tense -- "from when also WE LOOK for the Saviour". And this was the apostolic teaching in all the churches. Therefore when the Thessalonians were being misled into thinking that the Day of the LORD (period of judgment) was already upon them (though it is not for the saints), he calmed them down and told them that first they must be gathered to Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture. Only after that would the Antichrist be revealed, following which the day of the LORD would come.

When Christ comes "in the clouds" that will be at His Second Coming WITH His saints and angels (Rev 1:7) These clouds are not what we see sailing in the sky. These are metaphoric clouds of saints and angels surrounding Christ in their whiteness and brilliance. See Revelation 19. From a distance (on the surface of the earth) they give the appearance of clouds. And at this time Christ comes to pour our the wrath of God. Hence the mourning, weeping, and wailing on earth.

 

[DavidTree]

Lazarus and Abraham are dead as doornails and will remain so until either the rapture (for Lazarus, assuming he lived past the day of Pentecost) or the resurrection of the just.

Then you are, again, calling the Lord either a liar or accusing HIM of speaking a faslehood in Luke 16:19-31.

Even if we say that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable then it still is a falsehood, according to you.

For even as a parable Jesus clearly teaches full awareness and conciousness after physical death and that the soul of man does not die after death.

 

[VARob]

Then you are, again, calling the Lord either a liar or accusing HIM of speaking a faslehood in Luke 16:19-31.

It's a parable. Parables are stories told to make a point.

Even if we say that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable then it still is a falsehood, according to you, because Jesus clearly teaches full awareness and conciousness after physical death.

It's a parable. The point Jesus was making in the parable is verse 31.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Don't forget that the Lord specifically mentions Abraham by name as well.

And Abraham had a conversation with the rich man. The Lord mentions as well the brothers of the rich man, and Moses and the prophets in that conversation. Parables take ordinary earthly things to represent heavenly truths. But here we have an actual narrative to which only God and Christ were privy. This is the reality of Sheol/Hades. And Christ went there and preached to the spirits in prison.

 

[DavidTree]

It's a parable. Parables are stories told to make a point.


It's a parable. The point Jesus was making in the parable is verse 31.

That was not the only point and for you to say that is very telling.

Denying the words of Christ is not safe and i urge you to hide and protect yourself in the fear God.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6