The relationship between the Remission of Sins, the Blood of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost

[Ogom]

@2ndTimothyGroup , #78


the Bible tells us to , "come out from among them" if we get too invested or too much with those not leading to light -- more and more -- it could affect us too.


James 1:27, 2 Corinthians 6:14, 17

 

[Ogom]

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬


lol yeah “grace means we don’t have to do anything God said will save us “

yay !!!! And “faith means don’t do anything and doing anything he said is a work of the law just say grace instead woohoo ! “

not my kind of doctrine sorry I’m a believer in Jesus so I do
My best to hear his word and have faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Simplicity for you faith doesn’t ignore what God said it can’t because that’s The source of faith

I think it’s important to hear what Jesus the savior said of salvation and not omit and deny and argue against it because Joseph prince or Paul Ellis or modern grave teachers can’t compete with the truth of this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24

Ill keep My faith in the savior and Lords word

not everything is about the same things - as decided, learned by us in our reading the Bible or by taking on doctrines of others -- with or without realizing it. God's understanding is vast -- ours is much smaller.

and not everything talked about in the Bible may be at our level of understanding - and if we do not progress much in understanding over time, we could take meat concepts and turn them in our mind to match up with milk, and possibly an understanding of milk or herbs not completely correct. we must learn from God to really learn -- undoctrified, correctly - real truth... and going beyond Milk and herbs and everything that might be Incorrect.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

@2ndTimothyGroup , #78


the Bible tells us to , "come out from among them" if we get too invested or too much with those not leading to light -- more and more -- it could affect us too.


James 1:27, 2 Corinthians 6:14, 17

I should definitely walk away from certain "altercations" earlier than I have been. The BIG lesson of lately!!! Thanks for the confirmation, my friend.

 

[Wansvic]

Where does the Spiritual Circumcision, instituted in the lives of Abraham and Sarah come into play?

Romans 4:11-12 NLT - "Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous--even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."
...

Abraham had to obey God as well as believe God. For God said, "...And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Gen 17:10-14)

As in the case of Abraham and his descendants, those born in the New Testament/Covenant era are required to believe the entire gospel message, and obey the associated commands. (Acts 2:21-41)Those who say they believe yet refuse to obey God's specific instructions (repentance and being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus) have broken God's covenant.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Abraham had to obey God as well as believe God. For God said, "...And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Gen 17:10-14)

As in the case of Abraham and his descendants, those born in the New Testament/Covenant era are required to believe the entire gospel message, and obey the associated commands. (Acts 2:21-41)Those who say they believe yet refuse to obey God's specific instructions (repentance and being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus) have broken God's covenant.

I hear you, but the Circumcision of Christ CAUSES a person to obey.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 NLT - "And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

This is what happened to Abraham. Abraham didn't make a request of Abraham, that he would obey, but he CAUSED Abraham to live a life of Blamelessness. This is why Righteousness, Holiness and Purity comes FROM God, and not through our actions.

Genesis 17:1 NLT - "When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am El-Shaddai--'God Almighty.' Serve me faithfully and live a blameless life."

Again the above is not a request, but an edict . . . this is an installment of a general way of life that WILL be executed in the life of the ones the Lords choose to "Grace." And again, Circumcision of the Heart is the greatest Grace one can receive. Grace is the removal of the Curse of the Lord, the Purpose of Christ.

Galatians 3:13 NLT - But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

 

[Wansvic]

I hear what you're saying. Hey, let me run this past you . . . the Baptism of John. Check out these verses (I hope I can present this in a way easy to understand . . . it isn't easy even for me).

Acts 19:2-6 NLT - 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." 4 Paul said, "John's baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus." 5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied."

Compare this with:

Luke 7:28-30 CSB - "I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John, but the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." 29 (And when all the people, including the tax collectors, heard this, they acknowledged God's way of righteousness, because they had been baptized with John's baptism. 30 But since the Pharisees and experts in the law had not been baptized by him, they rejected the plan of God for themselves.)"

My notes:

The Luke passage absolutely indicates, and quite clearly, that the Baptism of John the Baptist represented a Spiritual change of some kind, and that would likely be the lifting of the Sinful Nature, so that Spiritual Blindness would be lifted so that they could understand, believe, and [see].

What is significant about John's Baptism? Perhaps the Baptism of John is a Holy Baptism that lifts the Sin Nature. Wouldn't this explain why no one is greater than John? Wouldn't this explain what it means to "prepare the way?" Preparing the way? How? By lifting the Sin Nature first? It was because of the Baptism of John that all who received it were enabled to believe. And, it wasn't until AFTER they believed they received the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 11:10 NLT - "John is the man to whom the Scriptures refer when they say, 'Look, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, and he will prepare your way before you."

I submit that the Baptism of John actually lifted the Curse of the Lord. And yes, this would mean that Jesus had authored this right through John's Baptism. We know, for sure, that there was a difference in John's Baptism and the simple water Baptism of others, thus, he Prepared the Way. The way to what? The ability to possess True belief.

If anything, these passages show that Circumcision of Heart and Repentance certainly came before the reception of the Holy Spirit. Those baptized by John believed, but they had not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19, long after Luke 7). So, the road-work was completed . . . all who had received John's Baptism were Enabled, meaning, their Hearts were Circumcised of the Curse of the Lord. There was an entire body, or group of people that had been prepared to establish the New Church on and after the Day of Pentecost. Thousands were ready and Enabled (to receive the Holy Spirit)! But those who did NOT receive John's Baptism . . . they rejected the Plan of God. No doubt, there was something about John's Baptism that was remarkable not only in evidence but by the Words of Christ . . . "there is no one greater than John."

So unbelievable . . . I love this Bible!

John the Baptist introduced water baptism for the remission of sin that would later be modified to include the need to use the name of the Lord Jesus after His death, burial and resurrection. Jesus prophesied that this would begin in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) And it did in fact come about just as Jesus said it would on the Day of Pentecost. It was the first time people were commanded to repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Sorry, I don't have the time to paraphrase myself. Studying for the Real Estate Brokers exam. But, the answers are in the first post.

If I understood I would not have asked.

I am sorry but nothing you said makes any sense to me.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

John the Baptist introduced water baptism for the remission of sin that would later be modified to include the need to use the name of the Lord Jesus after His death, burial and resurrection. Jesus prophesied that this would begin in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) And it did in fact come about just as Jesus said it would on the Day of Pentecost. It was the first time people were commanded to repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38)

True. But what about the content of my post?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬


lol yeah “grace means we don’t have to do anything God said will save us “

No. Grace means you CAN’T DO ANYTHING for God to save you.

If you could do something to save yourself. Jesus would never have had to die. Saying you must ad your work to his completed work is basically the same as saying he died for no reason. And his death was not enough.

yay !!!! And “faith means don’t do anything and doing anything he said is a work of the law just say grace instead woohoo ! “

You don’t say you trust someone, then NEVER do anything they say. That shows LACK OF FAITH. Not faith.

faith is the ROOT or PRODUCER of works. Works are not the root or the produce of faith.

You have it backwards

Grace is unmerited favor. If you have to work. you are merited favor. Merited favor is not grace.

not my kind of doctrine sorry I’m a believer in Jesus so I do
My best to hear his word and have faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Simplicity for you faith doesn’t ignore what God said it can’t because that’s The source of faith

I think it’s important to hear what Jesus the savior said of salvation and not omit and deny and argue against it because Joseph prince or Paul Ellis or modern grave teachers can’t compete with the truth of this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24

Ill keep My faith in the savior and Lords word

yes, You believe in faith plus works.

That will not save you my friend.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If I understood I would not have asked.

I am sorry but nothing you said makes any sense to me.

LOL - I told you that it's difficult to put into words!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This leads to the question . . . .what is a "Work"? I would submit that Love is a Work.

1 John 3:14 NLT - "If we love our Christian brothers and sisters, it proves that we have passed from death to life. But a person who has no love is still dead."

What is concerning is all of the aggression that is shared between "believers" in these kinds of forums. This form of aggression is reflective of a lack of genuine Love. And, that equates to a lack of Salvation having been granted.

Work is what one does to

1. Earn a wage,
2. Earn a reward
3. Earn a prize

It is the opposite f grace, which is given at the expense and work of the owner

 

[KelbyofGod]

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
I think we need to realize in the very beginning of the church things did not always happen the same. But after the church got established everything happened the same.

The KJV says "after that ye believed, ye were sealed" ... which I've heard some interpret as "at some point after" and others interpret as "as soon as".

That's why I appreciate the God-given examples so much. Examples show the chronological order that may still be easily ignored/discounted/written-off/thrown away, but not so easily misunderstood.

-- -- -- -- --​

And I disagree with the proposal that "in the very beginning of the church things did not always happen the same. But after the church got established everything happened the same." I see that as a doctrine that God very clearly does NOT support with examples

The book of Acts is the only book that provides play by play accounts of what actually happens when people receive the Holy Ghost. So we either trust the examples God gave us, or start adopting doctrines that are contrary to them.

Plus I think it preposterous to suggest that God needed a "learning curve".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The KJV says "after that ye believed, ye were sealed" ... which I've heard some interpret as "at some point after" and others interpret as "as soon as".

That's why I appreciate the God-given examples so much. Examples show the chronological order that may still be easily ignored/discounted/written-off/thrown away, but not so easily misunderstood.

-- -- -- -- --​

I disagree with the proposal that "in the very beginning of the church things did not always happen the same. But after the church got established everything happened the same." I see that as a doctrine that God very clearly does NOT support with examples

The book of Acts is the only book that provides play by play accounts of what actually happens when people receive the Holy Ghost. So we either trust the examples God gave us, or start adopting doctrines that are contrary to them.

Plus I think it preposterous to suggest that God needed a "learning curve".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Well

In the begining we have some get the HS after water baptism

We have others getting it before

So if you can;t see that things were not always the same. I am not sure how to help you.

If I tell you that after you do somethign you will recieve something, and it takes time after you do what I ask. Then I have not proven to be trustworthy.

We recieve the spirit after faith because he is the seal of our salvation. No one is saved until they have been baptised and anointed with the spirit. They are still dead in their sin.

 

[Wansvic]

Work is what one does to

1. Earn a wage,
2. Earn a reward
3. Earn a prize

It is the opposite f grace, which is given at the expense and work of the owner

God has always required obedience to His commands. And partial obedience is not obedience. King Saul learned this the hard way. To refuse to obey God's commands in there entirety frustrates the purposes of God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

God has always required obedience to His commands. And partial obedience is not obedience. King Saul learned this the hard way. To refuse to obey God's commands in there entirety frustrates the purposes of God.

Dude I am no longer responding to your self righteous gospel I told you that before. In another thread. So this is all I wills ay to you in this thread.

God requires perfection. If your not perfect. He made a way for you to be saved. But you must meet him at the cross.

Watering down the law so you can appear to be good enough to save yourself and adding all these works does not help you. Your taking away from the cross. And putting Christ to shame.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It is the opposite f grace, which is given at the expense and work of the owner

Biblical Grace produces Work. Without Grace, Work cannot become manifest. That is, if Grace = Circumcision of the Heart. For, Circumcision of the Heart is Effectual. Why? It leads to the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life, thus the Laws of Moses became outdated, or, fulfilled.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

King Saul learned this the hard way.

king Saul had an evil spirit placed upon him . . . his path was determined.

1 Samuel 16:14 NLT - "Now the Spirit of the LORD had left Saul, and the LORD sent a tormenting spirit that filled him with depression and fear."

From that point onward, Saul sought to kill David.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I love our Bible.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Biblical Grace produces Work. Without Grace, Work cannot become manifest. That is, if Grace = Circumcision of the Heart. For, Circumcision of the Heart is Effectual. Why? It leads to the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life, thus the Laws of Moses became outdated, or, fulfilled.

I still do not understand this at all my friend. Probably never will

Circumcision of the heart happens when we are cleansed by the spirit.

That can not happen until we come to faith.. The washing and new birth of the HS (titus 3)

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I still do not understand this at all my friend. Probably never will

Hey . . . I could be wrong!

The good news (to me) is that I've found a way for all of Scripture to make reasonable, logical sense. And as I said yesterday, if would could sit down and have amazing discussions, I think we'd both walk away as more knowledgeable. Believe me, I'm paying attention to what you write . . . looking for things that would help me to change my thinking. I am more than eager to change my thinking, and believing if it means that I have been wrong. I detest the idea of believing things that our Powerful God does not intend that we believe.