Devotion to the Apostles' Teaching

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Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
1,573
113
#1
“They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching...”

The apostles have a special and particular place within the church. Contemporary churches attempt to feed themselves. We've largely become consumers and preachers have largely become marketers, and all the more so if they, themselves, create the items to consume (books, videos, etc.). The deciding factor that determines what is preached and taught, who is hired or promoted, tends to answer the question "what do the people want?"

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers..."

There is no supervision of the growth of the average church member. We are, for all intents and purposes, unpastored. Today, the pastor is typically someone who attends to the administration of the facility and this is increasingly problematic.

The church members did not gather to vote on what should be taught or what should be studied. Their direction did not come from a popularity configuration, or a democratic configuration, or the latest book written by the head pastor. There were men in their midst who were specifically gifted with knowing what the Lord was saying to the church and were empowered to speak it to the believers. Those words and its relevance came through the apostolic and it still comes through to us, today, in the same way. Which means that there are apostles today. Many churches have dispensed with the apostolic in their decision and their desire to avoid hierarchies and to act more 'democratically'. Today, churches have made themselves to be places where people can come under any pretext and get as much or as little as they want to and are encouraged to give some money to keep that function going. (By the way, this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitans referenced in Revelation 2; whereby the people decide, by majority rule, what is best for the church. Their deeds included the eating of food given to idols but their mindset was that they were no different than the people; they were not sanctified by God.)

All of this activity bears no relevance to truth. It's the psychology of competition and the "group think" that is the foundation of most of what calls itself church today. The early church experienced a genuine transformation in the thinking of the people because there was a genuine transformation in the culture of those people when they made contact with the kingdom. And the first cultural change centered around apostles, “The people continued steadfastly...” not 'casually', not 'occasionally', not by happenstance, not when they wanted to, not when it was convenient, “They continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine.”

They had been transferred from one kingdom into another, from darkness into the love of His Son, and sent ones from the new kingdom were required to represent and install the new culture among the people. They had to unlearn how to have dominion over themselves for their own benefit and to come under the rule of the King and His sent ones so that they, too, can mature enough to take up the business of their Father, the Living God. This happened through relationship and connection BECAUSE THE SON SENT THEM OUT IN THE SAME MANNER IN WHICH THE FATHER SENT THEM!

"As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."

So how were they given to the church? In the same manner in which Jesus was given to the disciples: as their teacher, friend, elder, and in the same Spirit as the Father. To the church, they were the representatives of the One who sent them. And that's how they knew how to instruct the church: they were cared for by Jesus in the same way they were to care for the saints. And for those they cared for, how would they be sent? In the same manner in which Jesus sent them which was in the same manner in which the Father sent Jesus. In this way the House of God would be built, just like a family lineage is built: from one generation to another... the bond of which is stronger than that of flesh or DNA: in the bond of the Spirit.

Do you want to know why the church is in its condition today? It is because we have abandoned the need for the sent ones, those who become the grace that God send to the people. And just so we're clear: this is not an office. This is not the Roman Catholic idea of succession from Peter. That is wrong. This is built through relationships, careful attention, and in the fear of the Lord, as those who must give an account. Those who are sent do not inhabit an office (necessarily) they are those filled with the grace to be sent because they know the one who sends them: namely Christ. And it is this part of the body I want to focus on. When you receive this, you'll see it all throughout scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. I'll return later.

This is part one.

Grace and Peace to You,
Aaron56
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
1,573
113
#2
So this: BECAUSE THE SON SENT THEM OUT IN THE SAME MANNER IN WHICH THE FATHER SENT THEM!

Should read: BECAUSE THE SON SENT THEM OUT IN THE SAME MANNER IN WHICH THE FATHER SENT HIM!

To continue...

"Most assuredly, I say to you, (this is Jesus) he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.”

This is the language of the Kingdom. Generally, it is the language of a kingdom. This sort of arrangement, one sending another as representative of the sender, would have been common to the people. It is not so common to us who grew up in Democracy, but the Kingdom is not democratic. The Kingdom operates on the principle of representation. Only those who will faithfully do the will of the king will be sent by the king. In the Kingdom of God, only those who will faithfully do the will of Christ will be sent by Christ. This is a function of character and maturity; one must be grown up, mature, to handle the affairs of the Kingdom of God. But when they are sent by the Lord we have the assurance of the scriptures that account for others who have, likewise, been sent.

So, on this principle, Jesus would say "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." Democracy has invaded the kingdom, has invaded the peoples thinking about the kingdom, to state it more precisely. And there are many purveyors of a democratic ideal who think that that somehow empowers and enables the people. What it does is that it enslaves them to the commonality of 'group think' without materially altering their understanding of the truth. We're not in a democracy when we come to the kingdom; we are in a kingdom that has a King.

He knows the end from the beginning, whereas we are just in our day. But He knows what came before, He knows what is now and He knows what is coming. So He knows exactly how to position His people, He knew that before He created the worlds, so that's why He doesn't have to accommodate to the whim of changing societies.

We know that "faith comes by hearing" but we are not so familiar with the setting of that jewel.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

"So then"... some versions read "Consequently..." Consequently what? It means the consequence of what came before. So, here's what comes before:

"For 'whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent?"

The consequential order is this: call on the Lord > believe in Him > hear the preacher > the preacher must be sent.

To write it in orderly fashion: the preacher is sent > the people hear the preacher > the people believe in Him who is preached > the people call on the Lord

The preacher cannot preach unless he is sent. According to the standard above: he will not be sent unless he is sent by Christ.
The word for sent is apostellō.

It is the same word Paul used when he wrote "And Tychicus I have sent to Ephesus." and "Did I take advantage of you by any of those whom I sent to you?" and the apostolic letter to Antioch this "We have therefore sent Judas and Silas..."

This is the Kingdom expanding through the One who was sent by God, through those who were sent by the One, and through those who were sent by the sent ones. And on and on... Many sent ones, with the grace of instruction in Kingdom culture. To teach people to obey, in their day, all the Lord commands.

The people have faith because they hear the word, and the word is preached because the preachers are sent: apostellō.

This is part two. Part three will focus on the original sent one, Adam, and how his account informs us about how God builds His House today.

Grace,

Aaron56
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,643
6,836
113
#3
There is no supervision of the growth of the average church member. We are, for all intents and purposes, unpastored. Today, the pastor is typically someone who attends to the administration of the facility and this is increasingly problematic.
Tens of thousands of Congregations world wide, and you have visited and judged all of them in order to come up with your criticisms?

FIX YOUR EYES ON JESUS, and lean not on your own understanding, for the wisdom of man is foolishness to God; as are your assumptions
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#4
I would suggest that you stay away from those big fancy buildings and seek out those thousands of small congregations out there.
You will quickly see just how wrong you are.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#5
“They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching...”

The apostles have a special and particular place within the church. Contemporary churches attempt to feed themselves. We've largely become consumers and preachers have largely become marketers, and all the more so if they, themselves, create the items to consume (books, videos, etc.). The deciding factor that determines what is preached and taught, who is hired or promoted, tends to answer the question "what do the people want?"

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers..."

There is no supervision of the growth of the average church member. We are, for all intents and purposes, unpastored. Today, the pastor is typically someone who attends to the administration of the facility and this is increasingly problematic.

The church members did not gather to vote on what should be taught or what should be studied. Their direction did not come from a popularity configuration, or a democratic configuration, or the latest book written by the head pastor. There were men in their midst who were specifically gifted with knowing what the Lord was saying to the church and were empowered to speak it to the believers. Those words and its relevance came through the apostolic and it still comes through to us, today, in the same way. Which means that there are apostles today. Many churches have dispensed with the apostolic in their decision and their desire to avoid hierarchies and to act more 'democratically'. Today, churches have made themselves to be places where people can come under any pretext and get as much or as little as they want to and are encouraged to give some money to keep that function going. (By the way, this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitans referenced in Revelation 2; whereby the people decide, by majority rule, what is best for the church. Their deeds included the eating of food given to idols but their mindset was that they were no different than the people; they were not sanctified by God.)

All of this activity bears no relevance to truth. It's the psychology of competition and the "group think" that is the foundation of most of what calls itself church today. The early church experienced a genuine transformation in the thinking of the people because there was a genuine transformation in the culture of those people when they made contact with the kingdom. And the first cultural change centered around apostles, “The people continued steadfastly...” not 'casually', not 'occasionally', not by happenstance, not when they wanted to, not when it was convenient, “They continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine.”

They had been transferred from one kingdom into another, from darkness into the love of His Son, and sent ones from the new kingdom were required to represent and install the new culture among the people. They had to unlearn how to have dominion over themselves for their own benefit and to come under the rule of the King and His sent ones so that they, too, can mature enough to take up the business of their Father, the Living God. This happened through relationship and connection BECAUSE THE SON SENT THEM OUT IN THE SAME MANNER IN WHICH THE FATHER SENT THEM!

"As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."

So how were they given to the church? In the same manner in which Jesus was given to the disciples: as their teacher, friend, elder, and in the same Spirit as the Father. To the church, they were the representatives of the One who sent them. And that's how they knew how to instruct the church: they were cared for by Jesus in the same way they were to care for the saints. And for those they cared for, how would they be sent? In the same manner in which Jesus sent them which was in the same manner in which the Father sent Jesus. In this way the House of God would be built, just like a family lineage is built: from one generation to another... the bond of which is stronger than that of flesh or DNA: in the bond of the Spirit.

Do you want to know why the church is in its condition today? It is because we have abandoned the need for the sent ones, those who become the grace that God send to the people. And just so we're clear: this is not an office. This is not the Roman Catholic idea of succession from Peter. That is wrong. This is built through relationships, careful attention, and in the fear of the Lord, as those who must give an account. Those who are sent do not inhabit an office (necessarily) they are those filled with the grace to be sent because they know the one who sends them: namely Christ. And it is this part of the body I want to focus on. When you receive this, you'll see it all throughout scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. I'll return later.

This is part one.

Grace and Peace to You,
Aaron56
For 300 years the church took their questions for answers from either the apostles or men taught by them. In 313 Constantine decided to help the church by using the world's ways to manage an organization and questions were handled by a council of many men. The church so changed that now we study the church of the apostles during the first 300 years, and the church after the church of the apostles. The church grew tremendously in numbers but lost its power.

People in the first church lived what they believed with faith in that life style. Today's church often preach against what they call law keepers, saying that to try to keep the law could only be to use the law for salvation, they say it is impossible for repentance of sin to mean they follow Christ with faith in all Christ says.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#6
I prefer small church because everyone is much more close and relationships flourish. I think it is true that the church is in a fallen state but to think that all have become corrupt or fallen is simply wrong not all who are labeled pastor or leader is what many have become.

Anyone who is a pastor or desires to be one must understand the tole and responsibility they are taking. it is more than just teaching a sermon on sunday it is a vital but heavy role because you are all the more accountable for what you say and preach you are guiding his sheep and thus are more accountable

it is the same as prophets many want to be prophets yet fail to understand they are all the more accountable for what they say a pastor is in the same boat. I believe those who are called to leadership show certain qualities and have a good understanding of how important it is that they understand the absolute responsibility that coimes with it.
Those who would call themselves pastors or leaders yet only lust after themselves and take money will be held accountable for every person every lamb that God has cherished they have lead astray or deceived. I have been to many churches and I am very sensative to the spirits presence and voice and in most of them when I sat there listening to the pastor I would look around and see everyone and it seemed as if they were dead the pastors sermon was well written very scriptural yet his words had no life in them.
A true pastor is used by God to create that spark in peoples hearts to ignite that fire he is used by God to bring them closer to God to deepen the relationship but for the most part I have not seen this except for one small church I attended one time

The spirit was alive they were all close and held each other up in their struggles they kept each other in a straight line not letting each other waver from the path of GGod it was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
1,573
113
#7
I would suggest that you stay away from those big fancy buildings and seek out those thousands of small congregations out there.
You will quickly see just how wrong you are.
You mean the congregations Paul spoke against in 1 Corinthians 3:4? Who taught you that this was okay?

The only allowable division of the church is location. They gathered as households within a city but all believers were considered members of that location’s church.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#8
You mean the congregations Paul spoke against in 1 Corinthians 3:4? Who taught you that this was okay?

The only allowable division of the church is location. They gathered as households within a city but all believers were considered members of that location’s church.
The spirit speaks to the spirit and confirms what the spirit says the division in the church is a tactic of the devil he is a master at the art of war divided then conquer.

The division in the church has always bothered me everyone seems to be against each other each beleif and doctrine opposing one snother yet if everyone was lead by the spirit would not these things being void?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#9
I prefer small church because everyone is much more close and relationships flourish. I think it is true that the church is in a fallen state but to think that all have become corrupt or fallen is simply wrong not all who are labeled pastor or leader is what many have become..
I think it is correct to say all churches today have fallen. If you follow the posts here objecting to the idea of Christ changing the way we live, objecting to following any instructions given by Christ calling it "law keepers" you would have to agree with me. Few people choose feeding their spirit with what is of God, what is of the world of TV, movies, books, is much more pleasing to them.

A small church in Portland Oregon became a mega church because they divided their congregation into small groups. However, many of the small groups were not centered on God. I went there for awhile, but I wash assigned to a small group whose leader taught politics rather than living a life for Christ. His politics consisted of gossiping about the evil in government instead of the way Christ would have it--to do good. When I found I could not change their way I left the church.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
1,573
113
#10
The spirit speaks to the spirit and confirms what the spirit says the division in the church is a tactic of the devil he is a master at the art of war divided then conquer.

The division in the church has always bothered me everyone seems to be against each other each beleif and doctrine opposing one snother yet if everyone was lead by the spirit would not these things being void?
"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

Heresies are required so that those who are approved by the Lord may be seen. When heresies are folded into the doctrines of a church that church is cut off.

There are few who will judge these matters, this is somewhat my point.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#11
I think it is correct to say all churches today have fallen. If you follow the posts here objecting to the idea of Christ changing the way we live, objecting to following any instructions given by Christ calling it "law keepers" you would have to agree with me. Few people choose feeding their spirit with what is of God, what is of the world of TV, movies, books, is much more pleasing to them.

A small church in Portland Oregon became a mega church because they divided their congregation into small groups. However, many of the small groups were not centered on God. I went there for awhile, but I wash assigned to a small group whose leader taught politics rather than living a life for Christ. His politics consisted of gossiping about the evil in government instead of the way Christ would have it--to do good. When I found I could not change their way I left the church.
To be honest I think the main issue is that many call themselves Christians but are Christian by title only, I think many start off on the right path but the seed was not planted on good soil. A lack of love and that fire for God is a dangerous thing in the church because it only produces fake believers who are easily manipulated by the world and build their beliefs on the things of the world such as politics
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#12
"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

Heresies are required so that those who are approved by the Lord may be seen. When heresies are folded into the doctrines of a church that church is cut off.

There are few who will judge these matters, this is somewhat my point.
Yes this is true and it seems not many have the discernment to see the difference between them. It is exaclt like wheat and tares they seem the same from far away but wheat produces more seeds and can be eaten while tares may look the same it is more fragile and it's seeds are poisonous
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#13
To be honest I think the main issue is that many call themselves Christians but are Christian by title only, I think many start off on the right path but the seed was not planted on good soil. A lack of love and that fire for God is a dangerous thing in the church because it only produces fake believers who are easily manipulated by the world and build their beliefs on the things of the world such as politics
It was pointed out to me that when scripture tells us what Christ came to do it says he came, not to tell us he saves because that was already told to everyone, but to tell us to repent for the kingdom of heaven is near. It pointed out that there are 128 references in the gospels of the KJV that speaks of this kingdom and how to live in it.

This book said that scripture speaks of three kingdoms. There was the kingdom of Moses that used fleshly commands and fleshly rewards that Christ replaced by spiritual in our hearts. The other kingdom is the kingdom of the world, and all three kingdom have their laws and rules for living in them. We are to live and obey the rules of the kingdoms of the world until they conflict with the laws and rules of the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of heaven is where the true Christian lives.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
1,573
113
#14
To be honest I think the main issue is that many call themselves Christians but are Christian by title only, I think many start off on the right path but the seed was not planted on good soil. A lack of love and that fire for God is a dangerous thing in the church because it only produces fake believers who are easily manipulated by the world and build their beliefs on the things of the world such as politics
Imagine if the church (people) developed relationships with others and recognized their change of heart (" Zacchaeus, I am dining at your house today.") before they were invited to the meetings....None of the "Say these words and you're in" nonsense. Here, all unbelievers are invited "into the church". In the time of the early church there was no such thing. Preaching to the unbelievers occurred in public forums for the most part. Sometimes it occurred in the Jewish temple because the people were there, not because the temple was special (the Most Holy Place had been violated by the Holy Spirit by that time). The saints knew that God ordained the steps of the righteous and that the people they knew were, primarily, those to whom they were called to minister, sometimes with words.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,210
690
113
#15
the pastors sermon was well written very scriptural yet his words had no life in them.
Churches preach a living God, yet so many of them leave me feeling like I've been to His funeral.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#16
Imagine if the church (people) developed relationships with others and recognized their change of heart (" Zacchaeus, I am dining at your house today.") before they were invited to the meetings....None of the "Say these words and you're in" nonsense. Here, all unbelievers are invited "into the church". In the time of the early church there was no such thing. Preaching to the unbelievers occurred in public forums for the most part. Sometimes it occurred in the Jewish temple because the people were there, not because the temple was special (the Most Holy Place had been violated by the Holy Spirit by that time). The saints knew that God ordained the steps of the righteous and that the people they knew were, primarily, those to whom they were called to minister, sometimes with words.
I think the church needs a revival some havr said a revival is coming and I pray this true because the church is in fact asleep we have lost that passion and love we have lost the connection to the spirit that once moved us. There was a time when the spirit was alive in all of us when every person could just radiate the spirit of God when we hungered and thirsted without quenching. What happened to that hunger? what happened to that thirst? Have we forgotten what it is like to hunger and thirst for him so badly that it is almost tortture? To be so hungry yet fed only enough to be sated yet still hunger for more? Have we forgotten the way the spirit would flow and we would just instinctively follow it and speak and act on it?

I have come across a person once at walmart he had severe burns and scars all over his body yet when he spoke to the lady at the counter there was actual joy in him and I could feel the spirit just being around him. I have never come across anyone else like that but this man reminded me of what we used to be people can tell there is something different even if they are unbelievers and those who know the spirit can feel it radiating from them.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#17
I think the church needs a revival some havr said a revival is coming and I pray this true because the church is in fact asleep we have lost that passion and love we have lost the connection to the spirit that once moved us. There was a time when the spirit was alive in all of us when every person could just radiate the spirit of God when we hungered and thirsted without quenching. What happened to that hunger? what happened to that thirst? Have we forgotten what it is like to hunger and thirst for him so badly that it is almost tortture? To be so hungry yet fed only enough to be sated yet still hunger for more? Have we forgotten the way the spirit would flow and we would just instinctively follow it and speak and act on it?

I have come across a person once at walmart he had severe burns and scars all over his body yet when he spoke to the lady at the counter there was actual joy in him and I could feel the spirit just being around him. I have never come across anyone else like that but this man reminded me of what we used to be people can tell there is something different even if they are unbelievers and those who know the spirit can feel it radiating from them.
When you people tell us how bad the church is and what it needs, it would be good if you included the number of local churches you have been in.
I will bet you have been in less than 1% , yet you make these judgments on all.
No credibility in such statements.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#18
When you people tell us how bad the church is and what it needs, it would be good if you included the number of local churches you have been in.
I will bet you have been in less than 1% , yet you make these judgments on all.
No credibility in such statements.
I'm not saying all are like this however there is a vast difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart and just to further make my point here the world views Christians as judgemental hypocrites who preach on love but show anything but that and for good reason.

Religion has taken over and the love of God has waxed cold I have been to many different churches spoken with many other believers and I can testify how one puts on the form of Godliness but has a lack thereof
I am sorry if I offend you but I have seen the problem and am merely stating the problem if you disagree that is fine but make no mistake it is an actual problem.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#19
I'm not saying all are like this however there is a vast difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart and just to further make my point here the world views Christians as judgemental hypocrites who preach on love but show anything but that and for good reason.

Religion has taken over and the love of God has waxed cold I have been to many different churches spoken with many other believers and I can testify how one puts on the form of Godliness but has a lack thereof
I am sorry if I offend you but I have seen the problem and am merely stating the problem if you disagree that is fine but make no mistake it is an actual problem.
I am not offended.
Just because you believe the love of God has waxed cold in the many churches you have visited does not mean that is true in all or most.
Just how Christian is it for you or me to make a judgment of all based on a very limited knowledge of all?
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#20
You mean the congregations Paul spoke against in 1 Corinthians 3:4? Who taught you that this was okay?

The only allowable division of the church is location. They gathered as households within a city but all believers were considered members of that location’s church.
I have no idea what 1 Corinthians 3:4 has to do with what I said.