TONGUES false teaching.
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Jesus went to a place where they didn't believe Him, and He couldn't do miracles. I can just imagine the people that lived there. "The water You turned into wine, that was just grape juice from concentrate, right?" "That leper You healed two towns over, You got any medical reports to go with that?" "Come talk to our linguist expert, see if he understands You."
Those seeking worldly proof of Spiritual things will see neither. For them the gifts have indeed ceased.
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Those seeking worldly proof of Spiritual things will see neither. For them the gifts have indeed ceased.
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Your response is dishonest. Do you deny that you were "warning" me not to call the Holy Spirit a liar? Just where is this coming from, if not from a slanderous prejudice? So, yes you did, and yes it was directed at me. Why not be honest and forthcoming about it?
Your P/C interpretation and tradition is the background for your responses. The P/C bias is easily seen in those responses. So your denial is invalid.
You still seem to have a vested interest in keeping people in the dark about it. I've no doubt that you sincerely believe what you say here. But your agenda in conversing with me was dishonest. You purported to want to work with me to solve the problem of disunity, but your agenda was to convert me to your belief system (obviously). When I stood my ground about how to reveal the truth about tongues and expose the counterfeit, you tried to dissuade me by redirecting the conversation. It just appears to me the more you talk, the more I am convinced that you have a vested interest in keeping your tongues a mystery. How can I conclude anything other than you're just yet another Charismatic with a Big Fish story?
Your P/C interpretation and tradition is the background for your responses. The P/C bias is easily seen in those responses. So your denial is invalid.
You still seem to have a vested interest in keeping people in the dark about it. I've no doubt that you sincerely believe what you say here. But your agenda in conversing with me was dishonest. You purported to want to work with me to solve the problem of disunity, but your agenda was to convert me to your belief system (obviously). When I stood my ground about how to reveal the truth about tongues and expose the counterfeit, you tried to dissuade me by redirecting the conversation. It just appears to me the more you talk, the more I am convinced that you have a vested interest in keeping your tongues a mystery. How can I conclude anything other than you're just yet another Charismatic with a Big Fish story?
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Your examples are invalid, because there is no real comparison. I believe the stories in the Bible, because those are obviously miraculous. You keep on harping that I don't believe in miracles even though I told you and others I do. Even modern miracles have been documented as such. But all I hear about tongues makes me believe they are just Big Fish stories. P/Cs are notorious for them.
I proved you wrong about the scripture you quoted. Why haven't you responded to that? Are you too proud to admit that you were wrong about it? Does your belief in modern tongues depend on that wrong interpretation, and so you want to act as if you weren't proved wrong?
Finally, why won't you respond to my request for evidence? Are you afraid that if you actually do what I ask that you'll find your tongues is not a language, and then that will force you to revisit your practice? Or, will you just blindly go along with the tradition just because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy?
Are you courageous enough to have your tongue examined? After all, if you have the authentic gift like Acts 2, you should want it proved out. You then could rejoice in the truth of it, and I would rejoice with you. But if you refuse, then what am I to think, except that it's not up for evaluation because it's probably a Big Fish story?
I proved you wrong about the scripture you quoted. Why haven't you responded to that? Are you too proud to admit that you were wrong about it? Does your belief in modern tongues depend on that wrong interpretation, and so you want to act as if you weren't proved wrong?
Finally, why won't you respond to my request for evidence? Are you afraid that if you actually do what I ask that you'll find your tongues is not a language, and then that will force you to revisit your practice? Or, will you just blindly go along with the tradition just because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy?
Are you courageous enough to have your tongue examined? After all, if you have the authentic gift like Acts 2, you should want it proved out. You then could rejoice in the truth of it, and I would rejoice with you. But if you refuse, then what am I to think, except that it's not up for evaluation because it's probably a Big Fish story?
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K
I know more than you do. That is not what AoG teaches, period. If you, and I mean if, you attended a church that was doing that then the pastor should and could have lost his licence. I have no vested interest in you or anyone else here. This is a discussion forum, nothing more. Stop being paranoid. No one is trying to "get" you. What we do here is discuss. That's it, you need to calm down.
Ask a stupid question, expect to be answered in kind.
There are about 10 million Pentecostals in the US. You say "many" are teaching false tongues. How many? How many were in the church you were in? I love how people come in here and have an experience with a handful of people they know and they judge everyone by the people they met. You're generalizing. So if every single person in your church was speaking in tongues falsely, so what? That puts them in error, not tongues themselves. smh
I'm rubber you're glue...?
Yep, already been said here. Your ideas are not new.
Which people?! Based on what? What authority do they have to judge a persons heart and intent?!
Yes, well clearly Youtube is the place to take your spiritual issues to.
I'm beginning to see the problem.
I had a friend like you who didn't believe in tongues. We never argued about the issue, but he flat out did not believe. He played guitar and we asked him to travel with us one morning in ministry. When we were singing someone spoke in tongues in the service and someone interpreted what was said. When the service was over and we were in eating at the restaurant we started to try to explain to him what had happened. He said," I know" We continued to explain and he said " No, you don't understand, I knew what the interpretation was before it was spoken". He was Baptist but he never again doubted tongues. This one thing I know, once I was blind, now I see.
Nor will you. You'll find what you're looking for based on your own bias.
And it doesn't make it not so. No where in the Bible does it say tongues will cease on this day at this hour. If you don't believe Gods Word , I can't change your mind.
How is it that everyone that disagrees with your POV is taking you out of context?
I don't need to prove anything, you do. And proving and debating is not the same thing.
You haven't gotten off step one. You haven't proved that tongues have stopped. Or are you saying the tongues in the NT were fake?
Every single leader is saying that everyone that speaks in tongues is fake??! See this is why people like you can't be taken seriously. You're making generalized statements. Out of 10 million people you're trying to assert that every single one of them is a fake? I've been in literally hundreds of Pentecostal churches in 20 yrs of ministry. How many have YOU personally been in? How many Pentecostal pastors do YOU know personally? Wanna take a guess at how many I know? You're making generalized statments with no facts to back up a single thing you say. If this were an actual debate class you'd have failed already. It's nonsense.
Opinion
And what would these "experts" have said on the day of Pentecost? Exactly.
So because satan can fake tongues, all that speak in tongues are fake? Makes perfect sense.
I don't have to give you proof, the burden is all on you. You've not proven that tongues have ceased. So there are experts that are "scoffers" nothing new.
If you're going to continue using generalizations, outside secular opinions over the Bible and your own bias, then yes, this is pointless.
I do not think you know what that word means. You're making sweeping comments and generalizations. You have secular people saying miracles don't happen, big surprise, and you have a church you attended one time. Out of this you're calling 10 million people fakers. smh How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?[/QUOTE]
Ask a stupid question, expect to be answered in kind.
There are about 10 million Pentecostals in the US. You say "many" are teaching false tongues. How many? How many were in the church you were in? I love how people come in here and have an experience with a handful of people they know and they judge everyone by the people they met. You're generalizing. So if every single person in your church was speaking in tongues falsely, so what? That puts them in error, not tongues themselves. smh
I'm rubber you're glue...?
Yep, already been said here. Your ideas are not new.
Which people?! Based on what? What authority do they have to judge a persons heart and intent?!
Yes, well clearly Youtube is the place to take your spiritual issues to.
I'm beginning to see the problem.I had a friend like you who didn't believe in tongues. We never argued about the issue, but he flat out did not believe. He played guitar and we asked him to travel with us one morning in ministry. When we were singing someone spoke in tongues in the service and someone interpreted what was said. When the service was over and we were in eating at the restaurant we started to try to explain to him what had happened. He said," I know" We continued to explain and he said " No, you don't understand, I knew what the interpretation was before it was spoken". He was Baptist but he never again doubted tongues. This one thing I know, once I was blind, now I see.
Nor will you. You'll find what you're looking for based on your own bias.
And it doesn't make it not so. No where in the Bible does it say tongues will cease on this day at this hour. If you don't believe Gods Word , I can't change your mind.
How is it that everyone that disagrees with your POV is taking you out of context?
I don't need to prove anything, you do. And proving and debating is not the same thing.
You haven't gotten off step one. You haven't proved that tongues have stopped. Or are you saying the tongues in the NT were fake?
Every single leader is saying that everyone that speaks in tongues is fake??! See this is why people like you can't be taken seriously. You're making generalized statements. Out of 10 million people you're trying to assert that every single one of them is a fake? I've been in literally hundreds of Pentecostal churches in 20 yrs of ministry. How many have YOU personally been in? How many Pentecostal pastors do YOU know personally? Wanna take a guess at how many I know? You're making generalized statments with no facts to back up a single thing you say. If this were an actual debate class you'd have failed already. It's nonsense.
Opinion
And what would these "experts" have said on the day of Pentecost? Exactly.
So because satan can fake tongues, all that speak in tongues are fake? Makes perfect sense.
I don't have to give you proof, the burden is all on you. You've not proven that tongues have ceased. So there are experts that are "scoffers" nothing new.
If you're going to continue using generalizations, outside secular opinions over the Bible and your own bias, then yes, this is pointless.
I do not think you know what that word means. You're making sweeping comments and generalizations. You have secular people saying miracles don't happen, big surprise, and you have a church you attended one time. Out of this you're calling 10 million people fakers. smh How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?[/QUOTE]
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O
I used to think that falling over in church was ridiculous. I was embarrassed to the nth degree by it.
One day at church I went for prayer after the service. A guy lightly touched my shirt with his finger. It was like a full-grown man drop-kicked me in the chest. Over I went. And then I couldn't get back up for awhile. I was so embarrassed.
I've since changed my opinion about it. But it took God's intervention for that to happen.
One day at church I went for prayer after the service. A guy lightly touched my shirt with his finger. It was like a full-grown man drop-kicked me in the chest. Over I went. And then I couldn't get back up for awhile. I was so embarrassed.
I've since changed my opinion about it. But it took God's intervention for that to happen.
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it is not good to judge a large group based on the behavior of a few within that group.
i will give an example- i have interacted with s.ome ellen white following seventh day advents.
if we met in real life, we would most likely get into a fist fight,
they are nasty false teachers , saying that anyone who doubted ms. white as a prophet and did not keep the Sabbath are the ones who will get the mark of the beast.
does that mean all s . d . a. 's are like that ?
no, of course not.
this applies across the whole Christian faith...
i will give an example- i have interacted with s.ome ellen white following seventh day advents.
if we met in real life, we would most likely get into a fist fight,
they are nasty false teachers , saying that anyone who doubted ms. white as a prophet and did not keep the Sabbath are the ones who will get the mark of the beast.
does that mean all s . d . a. 's are like that ?
no, of course not.
this applies across the whole Christian faith...
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K
He doesn't, he had an experience with one church. The pastor, if he knew it was going on, should have put a stop to it. He can lose his licence for it. I was in AofG all my life, I have family that are pastors in their churches, I have family that worked in the local head office. I know what they do and do not teach. And I know what can get a pastor in trouble.
Lol yes and anyone who calls out his POV has a "vested interest", he seems to like that word a lot!
He can babble on all he wants to. I have experience when it comes to churches that few others have because I traveled for so long in so many different denominations. So when someone tries to generalize, I can set them straight. You've been in one or two churches? That's nice, I've been in a hundred. You know a couple pastors? Cute, I know a hundred. He's got nothing to say. Heard it all before. The burden of proof is on him to prove when tongues are to cease. He can't.
Lol yes and anyone who calls out his POV has a "vested interest", he seems to like that word a lot!
You provided a biblical context in which he just mocked and scoffed. I am shocked he has not too you to be quiet because you are a woman.
I am shocked he has not too you to be quiet because you are a woman.
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A while back I was an online acquaintance of a guy who was very angry at God, and questioning if God even existed. He eventually told me that he and his fiancé were thinking about becoming Christians, but before they could make that decision she died. He was angry that God could take her and consign her to hell knowing she was considering becoming 'saved'.
One night I'm praying in the Spirit about him, and I get this vision of legions of angels rushing into what I interpreted as a cave or tunnel. When I told him about this, he was taken aback.
Turns out his girl was killed in an auto accident under a freeway overpass.
I then told him to not be so sure she didn't make her decision. That softened his stand against God.
If meaningless babble can bring someone closer to God, then babble away my friends!
One night I'm praying in the Spirit about him, and I get this vision of legions of angels rushing into what I interpreted as a cave or tunnel. When I told him about this, he was taken aback.
Turns out his girl was killed in an auto accident under a freeway overpass.
I then told him to not be so sure she didn't make her decision. That softened his stand against God.
If meaningless babble can bring someone closer to God, then babble away my friends!
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K
And there's the point. If tongues are bringing people closer to God how can they be of satan, or secular. As Jesus said, how can satan cast out satan. A friend of the family became a pastor because of tongues. These fake tongues that are jibberish. I got to minister in that church that I had heard about from my parents for many years. He had a church of around 1000 people. This man had come from another country to Canada. He wasn't saved. One day he was walking down the street and he thought he heard someone speaking his language. He followed the voice inside a church. He sat and listened till the service was over. He went to the pastor of the church and asked who there spoke his language. Come to find out, it was a message in tongues, a message for him specifically. It told him in his own language how to be saved. I ask you, is a church full of over a thousand members not proof?! I bet our Baptist friend will disagree, just like my Baptist friend did till it happened to him !
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