Cessationism and Continuationism

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S

SophieT

Guest
#41
#41
CS1 said:
You know I am not FAN of the man, however, I disagree he is speaking against the Holy Spirit. He is trying to show those on our side of the aisles :) to stop the foolishness. And he is doing it the wrong way.
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I certainly agree that the egregious behavior of certain people is not the Holy Spirit

however, have you read MacArthur's book 'Strange Fire' or heard excerpts from his Strange Fire Conference?

he crosses the line big time
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#42
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#42
DavidTree said:
John McArthur is a liar and is in danger of judgment for speaking against the Holy Spirit.
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I wouldn’t call him a liar. That’s a broad brush to stroke a man with. Can you give any credible evidence that such things are still in place? That’s essentially what I am looking for. Many claim this, but there is no clear indication this still occurs since we have have God’s full revelation(As far redemption is concerned).
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#43
May 23, 2012
12,976
4,302
113
#43
DavidTree said:
i did not watch the video and am not referencing the video but McArthur's statements and standing on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and his 100% Lie which he refers as "cessation of Gifts".

McArthur is is grave danger of the same sin of the Pharisees in claiming that the Gift of Speaking in Tongues has ceased and therefore is of the devil.

Go tell McArthur to be a man, come on here at christianchat and present his case against the Holy Spirit.
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Listen, I am a pentacostel minister, and many times we cry blasphemy of those who disagree. Cessationists are wrong :).

Yet the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not forced on anyone. We are told to desire them, seek them use them, but if you are not comfortable with it God is not going to make you do anything.

saying the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12 through 14 are not for today is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. it is a wrong statement :).

Just stay with the Bible I as my friend to sure in the word of God where it says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped


they answer I get :

  • I have not seen them
  • if they happen they would be on the news
  • millions would be flocking to that place
  • a scientist would have substantiated the miracle

Again Where in the word of God does it say the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped? Where in the word of God does it say we are needing your validation they happen?


Those who claim to be so Biblical failed to see while there were multitudes who followed Jesus there were multitudes who rebuked his works and healing. there were just as many saying HE healed by the devil as there were fewer saying he healed by GOD.

feeding 5000, the day of pentacostel 3000 saved great and wonderful miracles worked by God YET, they were a drop in the bucket in that day.

The word of God Prophesied that Jesus would do this as Jesus readout of the book of Isiah found in luke chapter 4:18.

Did they believe it? No, same thing today. Show me in the Bible where it states they are not for today and have stopped. You not seeing it doesn't make the word of God to no effect. Move on.

 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#44
#44
SophieT said:
Aerials:

I asked you if you believe anyone who speaks in tongues does so by a demonic spirit as does Mac Arthur

will I get an answer here?
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Apprears we're not going to get that answer...
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#45
May 23, 2012
12,976
4,302
113
#45
DavidTree said:
Charismaniacs and their false manifestations are = FALSE

1 Corinthians = TRUTH

Stay away from the False and embrace the TRUTH

i believe you know this - amen
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FYI I am charismatic as I have been used and will be so used in the gifts God has called me to.

correction is the responsibility of the mature.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#46
#46
Aerials1978 said:
I wouldn’t call him a liar. That’s a broad brush to stroke a man with. Can you give any credible evidence that such things are still in place? That’s essentially what I am looking for. Many claim this, but there is no clear indication this still occurs since we have have God’s full revelation(As far redemption is concerned).
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Credible evidence, no one who believes in cessionism wants credible evidence. They believe there is such a thing. So as another poster said, each believes what they believe, why cause division?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#47
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#47
kaylagrl said:
Two currently running on the very same topic, what's your point?
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Maybe I’m taking a different approach on the topic. It’s obviously a popular(and controversial) point among Christians. The other OP’s seem to divulge in a bickering contest. I was hoping to avoid that and have a real discourse about it.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#48
#48
Aerials1978 said:
Maybe I’m taking a different approach on the topic. It’s obviously a popular(and controversial) point among Christians. The other OP’s seem to divulge in a bickering contest. I was hoping to avoid that and have a real discourse about it.
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Alright, then your answer to the question asked of you is? Do you believe tongues is done by demonic power?
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

Banned
#49
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#49
CS1 said:
Listen, I am a pentacostel minister, and many times we cry blasphemy of those who disagree. Cessationists are wrong :).

Yet the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not forced on anyone. We are told to desire them, seek them use them, but if you are not comfortable with it God is not going to make you do anything.

saying the gifts of the Holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12 through 14 are not for today is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. it is a wrong statement :).

Just stay with the Bible I as my friend to sure in the word of God where it says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped


they answer I get :

  • I have not seen them
  • if they happen they would be on the news
  • millions would be flocking to that place
  • a scientist would have substantiated the miracle

Again Where in the word of God does it say the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped? Where in the word of God does it say we are needing your validation they happen?


Those who claim to be so Biblical failed to see while there were multitudes who followed Jesus there were multitudes who rebuked his works and healing. there were just as many saying HE healed by the devil as there were fewer saying he healed by GOD.

feeding 5000, the day of pentacostel 3000 saved great and wonderful miracles worked by God YET, they were a drop in the bucket in that day.

The word of God Prophesied that Jesus would do this as Jesus readout of the book of Isiah found in luke chapter 4:18.

Did they believe it? No, same thing today. Show me in the Bible where it states they are not for today and have stopped. You not seeing it doesn't make the word of God to no effect. Move on.
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When McArthur and others who have studied the Scriptures say "speaking in tongues is of the devil" they commit egregious sin.

Saying the Gifts have ceased for today is complete ignorance and from a hardened religious self righteous heart of unbelief.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#50
#50
Aerials1978 said:
In some denominations “Word of Faith” has become a central doctrine. In that I mean they teach that unless one has the gift of tongues, healing, prophecy, etc they do not have the Holy Spirit. This of course is a fallacy and unbiblical. That misrepresentation of faith is what I am alluding to.
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I'm not a fan of Word Of Faith, in fact I'm not a fan of denominations.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#51
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
#51
Isaskar said:
Furthermore, knowledge has not ceased, if anything it has increased.
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Should it not be obvious that Paul was not writing about common knowledge? He was writing about knowledge or revelations given by God. Since the Bible is now complete, and the last book of the Bible forbids any additions to Scripture, SUPERNATURAL knowledge has ceased. So have the other two gifts associated with Scripture as mentioned by Paul.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#52
#52
kaylagrl said:
Apprears we're not going to get that answer...
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well it's one thing to post a video by MacArthur and another to declare we are all of a demonic spirt as he does

the op most likely enjoys MacArthur's teaching but should be aware he holds extremist views on certain things
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

Banned
#53
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#53
CS1 said:
FYI I am charismatic as I have been used and will be so used in the gifts God has called me to.

correction is the responsibility of the mature.
Click to expand...
You and i are Brothers, we are both washed in the Blood, Born of the Spirit of God and have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

We love each other because Christ first loved us and therefore His Love moves in our hearts for each other.

We are both 'charismatic' in the Holy Spirit and in Truth.

Charismaniacs are those who are false and/or abuse the Word of Truth.

We are not charismaniacs
We are not pharisees
We are not those who oppose the Spirit of God
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

Banned
#54
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#54
Nehemiah6 said:
Should it not be obvious that Paul was not writing about common knowledge? He was writing about knowledge or revelations given by God. Since the Bible is now complete, and the last book of the Bible forbids any additions to Scripture, SUPERNATURAL knowledge has ceased. So have the other two gifts associated with Scripture as mentioned by Paul.
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You are speaking against the Word of God, you have not that authority as you are not an apostle to even make such a claim.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#56
#56
Aerials1978 said:
Maybe I’m taking a different approach on the topic. It’s obviously a popular(and controversial) point among Christians. The other OP’s seem to divulge in a bickering contest. I was hoping to avoid that and have a real discourse about it.
Click to expand...
why would it be avoided?

further you post a video by someone who has been the author of some of the most savage attacks on other Christians, while at the same time spouting some very questionable offerings himself such as you can still be saved after accepting the mark of the beast

please explain that one....there is proof of that in many places on the net...I saw plenty...so maybe do a little homework and see if what I just said is so
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#57
Apr 21, 2021
8,201
3,553
113
#57
Aerials1978 said:
This is just a short 8 minute video clip of John MacArthur explaining why he believes(As I do) that certain gifts of the Spirit ceased with Apostles.

I know this is a touchy subject and I do expect some disagreement, but I am interested in what other Christians thoughts on the matter are.
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I'm not a hardcore cessationist; however, I'm still waiting for a genuine sign or wonder to be performed by someone. I see a lot more evidence that there are no more miracle workers than that there are.

If all the people who claim to have the gift of healing would go to the hospitals and just heal a few people what a miracle that would be. But you don't see them doing that; instead you find them in their "churches" collecting tithes.

I hear a lot of stories but in the end that's all it amounts to—stories and more stories.
 
DavidTree

DavidTree

Banned
#58
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#58
Aerials1978 said:
I wouldn’t call him a liar. That’s a broad brush to stroke a man with. Can you give any credible evidence that such things are still in place? That’s essentially what I am looking for. Many claim this, but there is no clear indication this still occurs since we have have God’s full revelation(As far redemption is concerned).
Click to expand...
Dear Aerials1978,
Peace and Love in Christ Jesus our Lord.

i can show you, beyond any shadow of doubt, if you open your heart to faith & complete trust in the Word, the Truth as it is written.

Do you desire Truth above 'respect of persons' or do yo see christian churches and their appointed leaders as Truth???
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#59
May 23, 2012
12,976
4,302
113
#59
SophieT said:
I certainly agree that the egregious behavior of certain people is not the Holy Spirit

however, have you read MacArthur's book 'Strange Fire' or heard excerpts from his Strange Fire Conference?

he crosses the line big time
Click to expand...
I agree and yes I have read strange fire. I have formulated a good argument for that which many have not been able to answer.

IN the end two things we must do just two



1. leave him alone
2. correct ourselves


That it. I don't like using names now I will and do think it is right to address the wrong understanding.


1. they say the gifts have ceased.
Please show in the word of God

2. in 1cor 13:8-10.
It does say that

3. yes it does you need to study more and no about the canonization the gifts are no longer needed.
Can't you show me in the bible?

4. well, it is clear if you look at pagan practices like kunnduni Hindu praying this is something.
Why are you looking outside the word of God to disprove what is in the word of God? can't you show me where in the bible the gifts are not for today?

5. well, k. Copeland, and this guy and that lady are demonized.

Ok, so because they are in error the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not real or for today? So you want me to look at the foolishness of those who are abusing the gifts and not HOLD YOUR FEET TO the FIRE that you can't show me in the word of God where the Gifts are not for today BE you have not seen it. Even IF the Word of God doesn't say they have stopped?

That is the same thing you are doing they you accuse others of doing, that is unbiblical.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#60
#60
ResidentAlien said:
I'm not a hardcore cessationist; however, I'm still waiting for a genuine sign or wonder to be performed by someone. I see a lot more evidence that there are no more miracle workers than that there are.

If all the people who claim to have the gift of healing would go to the hospitals and just heal a few people what a miracle that would be. But you don't see them doing that; instead you find them in their "churches" collecting tithes.

I hear a lot of stories but in the end that's all it amounts to—stories and more stories.
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nice

do you have an aversion to the actual topic?
 
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