Are curses still relevant to the Christians?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. .
so can someone tell me how this is not a self imposed curse?
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. .
so can someone tell me how this is not a self imposed curse?
I believe we are as Adam descendant are under curse. But Jesus offer salvation from eternal curse if we believe His teaching.
I believe God not create a man to die, I think if Adam not fall in sin, he never die and not growth old like in the 30 forever because of sin he is under curse.
But because of sin he is mortal.
After believe Jesus, we still mortal, but not go to hell.
Jesus save us from hell, but not from mortal, there is exception for Elijah and henogh the rest of us still under the curse of mortal
I believe God not create a man to die, I think if Adam not fall in sin, he never die and not growth old like in the 30 forever because of sin he is under curse.
But because of sin he is mortal.
After believe Jesus, we still mortal, but not go to hell.
Jesus save us from hell, but not from mortal, there is exception for Elijah and henogh the rest of us still under the curse of mortal
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You just blew me away. Wow.
You know what? I began explaining my position and realized that what I was writing was wrong. Or, at least it seems to be.
As I understand, the removal of the Curse of the Lord is only one side of the entire Adamic Curse. As I understand, the two sides are:
1) The Curse of the decaying physical world. All of creation is groaning, and that includes our bodies. Are bodies are still subject to decay and death.
2) The Curse of the Lord, which is God turning, or handing the human heart over to Satan, who thus is the spiritual father of all when they are born. We are born with naturally hardened hearts, thus the need for Redemption; the need for the Circumcision of Christ.
Jesus Redeems us from the Curse of the Sinful Nature while we are alive. But, after we die, it seems that He Redeems us from physical death, for we will continue to Live with Him in Paradise, providing that we were made Right with God by believing in the Power of the Resurrection of Christ (while we were alive).
Colossians 2:12 NLT - "For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead."
But for those who had died in times past, they were given the chance to be made right with God after Christ had lived and died.
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."
So, perhaps that church WAS right about some of the things on that list.
What a great thread. You have really challenged me, and I appreciate that so much!!! You have just helped clarify some things in my mind. I love it when that happens. I cannot thank you enough, roughsoul!
You know what? I began explaining my position and realized that what I was writing was wrong. Or, at least it seems to be.
As I understand, the removal of the Curse of the Lord is only one side of the entire Adamic Curse. As I understand, the two sides are:
1) The Curse of the decaying physical world. All of creation is groaning, and that includes our bodies. Are bodies are still subject to decay and death.
2) The Curse of the Lord, which is God turning, or handing the human heart over to Satan, who thus is the spiritual father of all when they are born. We are born with naturally hardened hearts, thus the need for Redemption; the need for the Circumcision of Christ.
Jesus Redeems us from the Curse of the Sinful Nature while we are alive. But, after we die, it seems that He Redeems us from physical death, for we will continue to Live with Him in Paradise, providing that we were made Right with God by believing in the Power of the Resurrection of Christ (while we were alive).
Colossians 2:12 NLT - "For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead."
But for those who had died in times past, they were given the chance to be made right with God after Christ had lived and died.
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."
So, perhaps that church WAS right about some of the things on that list.
What a great thread. You have really challenged me, and I appreciate that so much!!! You have just helped clarify some things in my mind. I love it when that happens. I cannot thank you enough, roughsoul!
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Jesus did not remove or break any curses. Curses are an integral part of the Law.
Galatians 3:13 says:
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
Notice it does not say He broke the curse of the Law. It says He became the curse. Also, notice verse 13 is stated in the past tense. Compare this to three verses earlier:
“For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.””
Galatians 3:10
This is Paul, referring to the curse of the Law in the present tense. Therefore, this proves Jesus did not break it. Three verses later, Paul references the curse again. Does it seem likely he was discussing a different kind of curse in this singular discussion? Anyone trying to argue he was, has a hard row to hoe.
Jesus is the Word became flesh. The Law is the Word. The curses in the Law are the Word of God. Therefore, if Christ were to break the curses, He would be breaking His own Law and that would be a kingdom divided against itself.
The answer to why we are not subject to the curse of the Law is found in Romans Chapter 7:1-6,
“Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”
We died in Christ, therefore we died to the Law and its curses.
Now, we are still subject to the law of sowing and reaping as made clear in Galatians 6:7-8,
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”
Again, Romans 7 verse 6:
“But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”
We are under a New Covenant, not the Old Covenant of the written code. We have died to that and are buried in Jesus Christ.
Colossians 2:13-14 is an incredible passage that sheds light,
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
… he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
It doesn’t say a scroll of the Law and Prophets were nailed to the cross. Jesus is the Law. It was He that was nailed to the cross. Our legal indebtedness is to Him. We sinned against Him—The Word—and He saved us from the death we owed Him. Hallelujah!
Galatians 3:13 says:
“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
Notice it does not say He broke the curse of the Law. It says He became the curse. Also, notice verse 13 is stated in the past tense. Compare this to three verses earlier:
“For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.””
Galatians 3:10
This is Paul, referring to the curse of the Law in the present tense. Therefore, this proves Jesus did not break it. Three verses later, Paul references the curse again. Does it seem likely he was discussing a different kind of curse in this singular discussion? Anyone trying to argue he was, has a hard row to hoe.
Jesus is the Word became flesh. The Law is the Word. The curses in the Law are the Word of God. Therefore, if Christ were to break the curses, He would be breaking His own Law and that would be a kingdom divided against itself.
The answer to why we are not subject to the curse of the Law is found in Romans Chapter 7:1-6,
“Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”
We died in Christ, therefore we died to the Law and its curses.
Now, we are still subject to the law of sowing and reaping as made clear in Galatians 6:7-8,
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”
Again, Romans 7 verse 6:
“But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”
We are under a New Covenant, not the Old Covenant of the written code. We have died to that and are buried in Jesus Christ.
Colossians 2:13-14 is an incredible passage that sheds light,
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
… he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
It doesn’t say a scroll of the Law and Prophets were nailed to the cross. Jesus is the Law. It was He that was nailed to the cross. Our legal indebtedness is to Him. We sinned against Him—The Word—and He saved us from the death we owed Him. Hallelujah!
I think this is the key to protecting ourselves from curses. Scripture lists sin as our worst curse, it condemns us to death. It is only faith is Christ that protects us from this curse, and it protects us from all kinds of curses.
But faith in Christ alone does nothing. Demons have faith, they know all that Christ is and can do, but they act as an enemy. We are to put his word in our heart and minds and act on it, that proves our faith. Christ looks at our repentance to determine our belief in him.
But faith in Christ alone does nothing. Demons have faith, they know all that Christ is and can do, but they act as an enemy. We are to put his word in our heart and minds and act on it, that proves our faith. Christ looks at our repentance to determine our belief in him.
That's a bad translation. The Law of Moses is not a curse. Rather, the Law is good and Holy.
Romans 7:12 NKJV - "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."
Is "Thou shall not muder" a curse? "Love the neighbor" is a curse? Christ Redeems us of these things?
Instead, the NLT has Galatians 3:13 right. It reads this way . . .
Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
As you can see, it is quite the opposite of what you have offered. Sorry . . . but it's good to find out sooner than later. This will be a total game changer for your theology. It's huge. Now read Colossians 2:9-15 and those Seven amazing verses will come alive! BTW: Pastors don't teach Col 2:9-15 because they've got it totally screwed up. They don't even mention it . . . EVER!
Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
Romans 7:12 NKJV - "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."
Is "Thou shall not muder" a curse? "Love the neighbor" is a curse? Christ Redeems us of these things?
Instead, the NLT has Galatians 3:13 right. It reads this way . . .
Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
As you can see, it is quite the opposite of what you have offered. Sorry . . . but it's good to find out sooner than later. This will be a total game changer for your theology. It's huge. Now read Colossians 2:9-15 and those Seven amazing verses will come alive! BTW: Pastors don't teach Col 2:9-15 because they've got it totally screwed up. They don't even mention it . . . EVER!
Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
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Both are good translations. I don't think you are following the line of logic, and you proved it here:
"The Law of Moses is not a curse. Rather, the Law is good and Holy."
I might recommend you take a gander at Deuteronomy Chapter 28. Lost of curses are in there--all from God. All curses are from God therefore all are good and holy.
Sorry, better for you to find out now.
"The Law of Moses is not a curse. Rather, the Law is good and Holy."
I might recommend you take a gander at Deuteronomy Chapter 28. Lost of curses are in there--all from God. All curses are from God therefore all are good and holy.
Sorry, better for you to find out now.
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I would recommend you slow down and actually read the text. I know you want to be perceived as an expert but you're not. You are wrong on several points. I am happy to have a discussion with you but perhaps we can get rid of the adolescent, "Sorry...but it's good to find out sooner than later." Who knows, you may find you are way over your head and feel foolish later. Shall we discuss it civilly?
For instance it is Paul, who discusses the curse of the Law and this is borne out across all good translations. Moreover, the curse of the Law is good, and it is holy.
For instance it is Paul, who discusses the curse of the Law and this is borne out across all good translations. Moreover, the curse of the Law is good, and it is holy.
amen , the law could have been a blessing that would have made israel Gods nation and they would have ruled the earth.
or it could be a curse and would curse them first and part of that curse on them. Was to scatter them into the earth being a curse for all the nations they were scattered into. They fulfilled the curse by breaking the law covenant
“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
Deuteronomy 11:26-28 KJV
it’s hard for people to change what they think but the law is exactly what it states it wasnt blessing or curse. But based on what they did either obeying it completely or not obeying it and straying to other Gods it would determine either a blessing or curse on the earth.
“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and forgat the Lord their God, and served Baalim and the groves.
…. And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the Lord.”
Judges 3:7, 12 KJV
the ot is a record of that repeating itself until Gods forebearance ran out and the curse was set in place
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
Isaiah 24:5-6 KJV
it could have been a blessing or a curse they fulfilled the curse because they didn’t keep it all
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
or it could be a curse and would curse them first and part of that curse on them. Was to scatter them into the earth being a curse for all the nations they were scattered into. They fulfilled the curse by breaking the law covenant
“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
Deuteronomy 11:26-28 KJV
it’s hard for people to change what they think but the law is exactly what it states it wasnt blessing or curse. But based on what they did either obeying it completely or not obeying it and straying to other Gods it would determine either a blessing or curse on the earth.
“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and forgat the Lord their God, and served Baalim and the groves.
…. And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord: and the Lord strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the Lord.”
Judges 3:7, 12 KJV
the ot is a record of that repeating itself until Gods forebearance ran out and the curse was set in place
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
Isaiah 24:5-6 KJV
it could have been a blessing or a curse they fulfilled the curse because they didn’t keep it all
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
Thanks for the Amen.
I have been studying and writing about curses for a decade now, and have had to change my mind over and over again the more I have learned. I have found that people are remarkably committed to their ideas about curses. I have theorized this results from all the colloquial use of the word, and how they are portrayed in media. How many books, movies, TV shows all have curse in the title and or themes? I'll bet it is in the thousands. We hear the the word as children in cartoons. It is natural for us to impose our prejiduces upon the text. I know I have to constantly fight that. However, the text is the text.
I have been studying and writing about curses for a decade now, and have had to change my mind over and over again the more I have learned. I have found that people are remarkably committed to their ideas about curses. I have theorized this results from all the colloquial use of the word, and how they are portrayed in media. How many books, movies, TV shows all have curse in the title and or themes? I'll bet it is in the thousands. We hear the the word as children in cartoons. It is natural for us to impose our prejiduces upon the text. I know I have to constantly fight that. However, the text is the text.
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amen I think the ability to let scripture correct our prior thoughts is key. Of we let the scripture become how we think it always is going to change what we think and believe . Then how we act is the result
I have come to the conclusion that we need to come to Christ as children not already knowing anything so we can as children learn of the father
pride is the enemy of any Christian wanting understanding because as you state there one day we’re convinced we have it all figured then ten years later we realize how immature and misinformed our beliefs were beforehand because we’ve learned
the ability to be corrected by the scriptire is an enormous strength in Christian life
I have come to the conclusion that we need to come to Christ as children not already knowing anything so we can as children learn of the father
pride is the enemy of any Christian wanting understanding because as you state there one day we’re convinced we have it all figured then ten years later we realize how immature and misinformed our beliefs were beforehand because we’ve learned
the ability to be corrected by the scriptire is an enormous strength in Christian life