The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[FreeGrace2]

Sick heretics

Definition of a "sick heretic": Those who claim a belief is biblical EVEN THOUGH they have NO EVIDENCE of it in Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

garbage
Trash
Not worth the paper that fool writes on.
You got such a nack for positioning yourself with the wrong teachers and positions

If you could only provide some clear evidence that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, you'd have a point.

Not until then.

 

[FreeGrace2]

how stupid can you get and still breathe?

Speaking of which, what about the opinion that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, but there is zero evidence from Scripture showing that?

 

[Absolutely]

109. aér ►
Strong's Concordance
aér: air
Original Word: ἀήρ, ἀέρος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aér
Phonetic Spelling: (ah-ayr')
Definition: air
Usage: air, the lower air we breathe.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from aémi (to breathe, blow)
Definition
air
NASB Translation
air (7).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 109: ἀήρ

ἀήρ, ἀέρος, ὁ (ἄημι, ἄω (cf. ἄνεμος, at the beginning)), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Homer, Iliad 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts 22:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; Revelation 9:2; Revelation 16:17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Ephesians 2:2 signifies 'the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air,' i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Meyer at the passage; (B. D. American edition under the word ; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139f)). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Homer, Iliad 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polybius 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv, to σκότος — the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Ephesians, the passage cited ἀέρα δέρειν, (cf.verberat ictibus auras, Vergil Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Corinthians 9:26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) 'to speak into the air' i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Corinthians 14:9.


THE WHOLE PREMISE OF PRE TRIB IS IT IS SECRET COMING IN WHICH NO ONE WILL SEE

YET EVERYONE WILL JUST DISAPPEAR (for some of the believers, for others it isn't). Just as some believe it is 'just the gentile church' others just parts of the church, others just the really good ones. Some are going for a wedding. Some are going for a wedding feast. Some are the bride. Some are the body. Some PROUDLY BOAST of being THE APOSTASY. Some say it isn't even a gathering. Some say the Lords Day began thousands of years ago and Satan has been bound. Some say Christ is ruling here on earth right now. Some say read it as to who it was written in the day it was written.

ALL OF US HAVE ONE TRUTH. IT IS WRITTEN AND THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADS TO THAT TRUTH.

IF IT IS, HATH GOD SAID? Then THAT ISN:T what is written.



1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

HE WILL BE HERE,

IN THE AIR

FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE.

IT IS THE DAY OF VENGEANCE.

HE IS COME TO SET UP THE KINGDOM THAT WAS REJECTED THE FIRST TIME HE CAME TO EARTH

TO SIT ON THE THRONE OF DAVID

ON EARTH.

FOR A THOUSAND YEARS

WHILE SATAN IS BOUND


THE CLOUDS

ARE THE ARMIES THAT HAVE RETURNED WITH CHRIST, OUR BRETHREN, the angels, WHO HAVE RETURNED WITH CHRIST TO RULE AND REIGN on the earth FOR THE LORDS DAY, WHICH IS AS A THOUSAND YEARS.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


That is how Paul thinks.

Pure baloney

 

[Absolutely]

PAUL DIDN’T BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE. NEITHER DID JESUS. NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
In Theology by Kurt Willems

The rapture.
This is still one of the most influential beliefs in pockets of Christianity.
The old mantra goes, “this world is not my home, I’m just passing through.”
But is that true? Are we just sort of stuck here until something apocalyptic happens like the second coming of Christ, the rise of the anti-Christ, and a rapture?
Of course, this belief is usually combined with something that gets referred to as the Great Tribulation.
Although I won’t have time in a single article, I want to demonstrate what I’ve come to understand of bothJesus and Paul: neither of them taught or believed in something like a rapture.[clickToTweet tweet=”Neither Jesus or Paul taught or believed in something like a rapture.” quote=”Jesus and Paul: neither of them taught or believed in something like a rapture”]
I’m going to invite you to consider whether or not you should believe in the rapture either.
PAUL’S “RAPTURE”
The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:

According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.​

This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny?
Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth. Not an escape into the sky (on this point, see especially 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 8).
“AIR” DOESN’T MEAN “WAY UP IN THE SKY”
Nowhere does this passage make a claim about an escape into the sky. In fact, the Greek word for “air” (which many Christian interpreters have associated with “sky”) that Paul uses is interesting in and of itself. It looks like this—ἀήρ—and means in Greek:

1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]​

Notice the important point: this sort of “air” is the “lower” region of the atmosphere, specifically differentiated from the “higher and rarer air.” The Greek word οὐρανός (often translated “heaven”) has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ.
Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:

1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it​

1. a. the universe, the world
2. b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
3. c. the sidereal or starry heavens

2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[2]​

Just for fun, I want to break down this word a bit. [By the way, I’m not using any fancy books to do this. These sorts of tools can be used online, even for folks with little familiarity with Greek. I link this stuff below.]

• Acts 22:23
  …εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
  …dust into the air,
• 1Co 9:26
  …ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
  …one that beateth the air:
• 1Co 14:9
  …γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
  …shall speak into the air.
• Eph 2:2
  …ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
  …power of the air, the spirit that…
• 1Th 4:17
  …κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
  …the Lord in the air: and so shall…
• Rev 9:2
  …καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
  …sun and the air were darkened by…
• Rev 16:17
  …ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
  …vial into the air; and there came…

It seems that the difference between these two words matters for our study. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218).
In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.
This should already make us wonder.
But, it isn’t enough to win us over yet. Because there remains a series mixed metaphors that need to be addressed. Even more than the word “air,” these are what contribute to a “rapture” reading of Paul.
We will find that Paul never had in mind a future event where Christians would be evacuated out of this planet. And this has nothing to do about the timing of such an event.
Paul never imagined a pre-, mid-, or post- Tribulation rapture. Why? Well, because just like Jesus, he had no concept of a way distant future Great Tribulation. More on that in a moment. Let’s consider Paul’s challenging language before we jump ahead, briefly, to Jesus.

You use kurt willems to teach you?
He is teamed up with biologos.

A group of heretics that push evolution and the covid vaccine.

Deep state devils in the church.

A grizzly mix

Sad

 

[Absolutely]

Are you referring to just NT believers or to all believers throughout history?

At first glance i thought you were getting real and actually entering the debate.

 

[kleronomos]

Pure baloney

Thank you, you have answered any and all questions I would have ever asked or answered.

Next will just be the witnessing of YOUR FRUIT.

 

[Absolutely]

Speaking of which, what about the opinion that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, but there is zero evidence from Scripture showing that?

Do you get all that omission dynamic naturally ,or do you intentionally work at it?


Yes of course.
If you omit and pull in your selective verses....POOOOF! You can easily make it up.

Just convince yourself and go for it.

I am not here to play your games.

 

[Absolutely]

Thank you, you have answered any and all questions I would have ever asked or answered.

Next will just be the witnessing of YOUR FRUIT.

Go judge someone else you don't know.
I am not here to play games.

 

[Absolutely]

If you could only provide some clear evidence that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, you'd have a point.

Not until then.

There is no "point" to make that you would take to heart.
You tirelessly troll me with nonsense.

You have your deal which is not in any way successfully defended by you, and The words of Jesus have no influence.
Hence you get pulled off ignore and responded to sparingly.

You are here to troll.
That is what you do.

 

[Absolutely]

The trolls are busy today.
Why are they in here????

 

[Absolutely]

Speaking of which, what about the opinion that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, but there is zero evidence from Scripture showing that?

Do you ever trade doctrine back and forth?
( present what YOUR position is and challenge rebuttal?)
All i see from you is "prove it".
Then we both know 50 verses are going to be met with some scoffing "prove it further".

I am 100% ready to mix it up with ANYONE ANYTIME.

But it they are playing games...go do it somewhere else.

 

[Absolutely]

Thank you, you have answered any and all questions I would have ever asked or answered.

Next will just be the witnessing of YOUR FRUIT.

Anytime you want to debate, go for it.
Get a bible and lets go.

 

[peldom10]

I posted this, not because I believe what this Theologian claims about certain opinions towards Christ and Paul, but because He caught the difference between the Greek usage of AIR vs SKY.

Stick with God's word. KJV 1611 edition suggested.

 

[cv5]

If you could only provide some clear evidence that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven, you'd have a point.

Not until then.

So where exactly is John 14 the Father's house located? Brooklyn?

 

[peldom10]

Agreed, but it means we go up to where the Clouds are. And Clouds range on average at lowest peek to the 8,000 feet mark, except for Fog.

Nothing in the Bible tells us the exact height. So, it could be at 8,000 feet we are gathered to.

In any event, during the rapture, I have full faith that Christ knows what we need to travel with Him and how far.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

You started trying to deny a rapture is even biblical but now you are agreeing, just saying it will be lower than most assume?


Let's actually look at the Greek definitions:

G3507
νεφέλη
nephelē
Thayer Definition:
1) a cloud
1a) used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3509
Citing in TDNT: 4:902, 628

Most clouds are pretty high up. I'm sure Paul is not talking about some obscure weather pattern.

G109
ἀήρ
aēr
Thayer Definition:
1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air
2) the atmospheric region
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow)
Citing in TDNT: 1:165, 25

So, the word is not limited to breathable air but can refer to high up in the atmospheric region where most clouds are.

Air alone would be harder to pin point but air and clouds, that is something we can all look up and see on certain days.

You are NOWHERE as bright as a Theologian or Scholar!

I've seen your posts in several topics and you are off as far as left to right is.

And i NEVER claimed there was never a Rapture!

I said the Second Coming is the Rapture.

I posted the Article for definition of the Greek word we use for Heaven is actually defined as AIR.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

In any event, during the rapture, I have full faith that Christ knows what we need to travel with Him and how far.

AMEN!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

how stupid can you get and still breathe?

Stupid would be YOU for trying to define a word that has no meaning to what you are claiming it to be!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

garbage
Trash
Not worth the paper that fool writes on.
You got such a nack for positioning yourself with the wrong teachers and positions

Why don't you address my posts that explain why i posted this?