Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

[KrisWampler]

Hey everyone, here’s an example of OP pulling verses out of context which he denies doing:

“Second, Ecclesiastes 9:5 cannot contradict Ecclesiastes 4:2. There, Solomon states that the dead are “happier than the living.” However, when a person is dead, the opportunities to enjoy things on earth no longer exist.”

He is a liar and heretic.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I literally provided a link proving you took Solomon’s words from Ecclesiastes out of context. Of course you didn’t read it. You are a heretic and a liar.

I don't engage spiritually immature, emotionally unstable children. Have a blessed day.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

View attachment 235436

It has no meaning to me as I consider the rich man and Lazarus a parable. But if Luke 16 is a real hell convo, Abraham never said a ghost cannot go back to living. Just that it was unfruitful to do so. Hellraisers believe in ghosts.

Luke 16:27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Goose bumps all over now!

 

[KrisWampler]

I like making him squirm. JK. I think @Phoneman-777 is actually a well meaning SDA advocate. He will probably extract himself one day.

The good thing is it takes little more than a five minute Google search to refute him. The sad thing is he’s peddling lies. Nothing will convince him but the Holy Spirit.

 

[Amanuensis]

How about you just watch the video, maybe?

Videos take too long. I can read theological statements much faster. Videos drive me nuts with their excessive talking. I hate listening to 20 minutes of video that could have been stated in one concise paragraph. It is so rude.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Hey everyone, here’s an example of OP pulling verses out of context which he denies doing:

“Second, Ecclesiastes 9:5 cannot contradict Ecclesiastes 4:2. There, Solomon states that the dead are “happier than the living.” However, when a person is dead, the opportunities to enjoy things on earth no longer exist.”

He is a liar and heretic.

It doesn't say the dead are "happier" than the living. Solomon says it is HE who regards the dead as better off than the living. Reading comprehension is a must when studying Scripture.

 

[KrisWampler]

I don't engage spiritually immature, emotionally unstable children. Have a blessed day.

Weak. But not surprising.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I already posted from Jewish Encyclopedia, Abraham's' Bosom was not symbolic.

And I already told you that Jewish tradition is just that: Jewish tradition.

You remember what Jesus said about the traditions of men, right?

 

[KrisWampler]

It doesn't say the dead are "happier" than the living. Solomon says it is HE who regards the dead as better off than the living. Reading comprehension is a must when studying Scripture.

Lol who do you think wrote Ecclesiastes?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Videos take too long. I can read theological statements much faster. Videos drive me nuts with their excessive talking. I hate listening to 20 minutes of video that could have been stated in one concise paragraph. It is so rude.

This guy packs more information in 19 minutes that you will barely be able to keep up.

 

[KrisWampler]

Anyway, I’m done with this liar. Folks, don’t let satanists like this mislead you with his false and easily refutable teachings.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I think Paul spoke of three parts somewhere, forget where and don't have time to look it up.

"With this in mind, is humanity dichotomous (“cut in two”) or trichotomous (“cut in three”)? In other words, do we have two parts (body and soul-spirit), or do we have three parts (body, soul, and spirit)? It is impossible to be dogmatic. Theologians have differed over this issue for centuries, and there has never been a decisive orthodox declaration of which is true. " https://www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.html

"

• Scripture clearly teaches trichotomy: (1) 1 Thessalonians 5:23; (2) Hebrews 4:12; (3) 1 Corinthians 3:14 – 3:4; and (4) 1 Corinthians 14:14

" https://biblearchive.com/blog/man-as-body-soul-spirit-or-trichotomy/

https://bible.org/seriespage/2-man-trinity-spirit-soul-body

Basically, Scripture is progressive revelation. In Genesis Man was body and soul. In the N.T. three parts of man.

Yes, man is Body, Spirit, and Soul - the two parts which make up the whole. I think it's in 1 Thessalonians 5 around 20.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Demon worms and unquenchable hell fire are Scriptural (see (b)!!!
"Mark 9:42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. (a)
43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (b)
49For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. 50Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another."(c)

Wait maybe Matthew never got the memo on demon worms!!! But at least has unquenchable ... er.. everlasting fire (what the hey they mean the same - see (b))
"Matt 18:7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!(a)
8Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. (b)"

Uh oh. Luke was totally of the grid. No memos whatsoever!!! No demon worms and no unquenchable...er.. eternal hell fire. What happend to the body part immolation stuff?!?!
"Luke 17:1Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!2It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. (a)
3Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."

oh... nevermind.

 

[Diakonos]

Can't seem to find the verse where the inner Earth is called "Abraham's Bosom".

Sorry that you're having trouble. Let me help you:

Abraham's bosom is within earshot of Hades (proper) (Luke 16).
People in Hades (proper) can see and hear and talk to people in Abraham's bosom. My last post tells you that this whole region is under the earth.

Abraham's bosom is located within a geographical region that is well documented throughout the Bible.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I apologize. And, thanks for showing I am right by attacking me friend.

Are you saying Doctors and Nurses should not work on Saturday? when they are needed? How about Police? How about Pastors? How about those who drive people to the Hospital? Do you drive on the Sabbath? Those defending their country in War? Was Jesus wrong to heal on the Sabbath? Do you turn off your furnace? Cook? We both know he was not wrong. How about the 613 Torah laws, do you keep all of them? Did not someone say, if you break one law you are guilty of breaking them all?

"You shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations on the sabbath day. "

A Motor vehicle is a temporary habitation and many engines use fire.

That's a very legalistic way of looking at things. What God desires is our attention on Sabbath, which we can't render if we're running around gathering kindling, sticks, and logs, and then sitting there rubbing and rubbing until there's smoke. Now, is turning a key to start an engine the equivalent?

Of course, medical care, emergency services, religious services, etc. are acceptable on Sabbath, but "routine" work is what God desires we lay aside and come together with Him and His people. Are you against setting aside 24 hours of sanctified time to pray, minister, fellowship?

 

[Amanuensis]

And I already told you that Jewish tradition is just that: Jewish tradition.

You remember what Jesus said about the traditions of men, right?

But wouldn't Jewish tradition be more likely that which was the "familiar content" of the parable than any Greek pagan idea?

The SDA and yourself has suggested that Jesus was using a common Greek pagan idea they had. That does not make sense. Wouldn't he be using a Jewish tradition they had?

Are you saying Jesus would not use a Jewish tradition but he would a Pagan tradition to teach a parable?

 

[Phoneman-777]

We have a general resurrection and judgement in Matthew 25. Thus all who are raised get the same kind of body described in I cor 15.

Matthew 25:31-46
Easy-to-Read Version
The Son of Man Will Judge All People
31 “The Son of Man will come again with divine greatness, and all his angels will come with him. He will sit as king on his great and glorious throne. 32 All the people of the world will be gathered before him. Then he will separate everyone into two groups. It will be like a shepherd separating his sheep from his goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made. 35 It is yours because when I was hungry, you gave me food to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I had no place to stay, you welcomed me into your home. 36 When I was without clothes, you gave me something to wear. When I was sick, you cared for me. When I was in prison, you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the godly people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you food? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you with no place to stay and welcome you into our home? When did we see you without clothes and give you something to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and care for you?’

40 “Then the king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you did for any of my people here,[a] you also did for me.’

41 “Then the king will say to the evil people on his left, ‘Get away from me. God has already decided that you will be punished. Go into the fire that burns forever—the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 You must go away because when I was hungry, you gave me nothing to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me nothing to drink. 43 When I had no place to stay, you did not welcome me into your home. When I was without clothes, you gave me nothing to wear. When I was sick and in prison, you did not care for me.’

44 “Then those people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty? When did we see you without a place to stay? Or when did we see you without clothes or sick or in prison? When did we see any of this and not help you?’

45 “The king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you refused to do for any of my people here, you refused to do for me.’

46 “Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever. But the godly people will go and enjoy eternal life.”

Yes, although there's some who have already been resurrected like the "saints which slept", Moses, etc., the general resurrection of the Just is at the Second Coming, followed by the resurrection of the wicked 1,000 years later.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Symbolic or literal, the language still teaches that the dead are aware, alive and sleep like we do on earth.

The passage is symbolic. Neither trees nor the dead can communicate.

 

[Phoneman-777]

But wouldn't Jewish tradition be more likely that which was the "familiar content" of the parable than any Greek pagan idea?

The SDA and yourself has suggested that Jesus was using a common Greek pagan idea they had. That does not make sense. Wouldn't he be using a Jewish tradition they had?

Are you saying Jesus would not use a Jewish tradition but he would a Pagan tradition to teach a parable?

I don't trust ANYTHING the Jews say - they crucified my Lord, and to this day call Him "the great imposter" and "son of a whore". They were the most stiffnecked race to ever grace the topside of the Earth. Time and time again, we read, "And the children of Israel DID EVIL in the sight of the Lord". Why should they be trusted as authoritative on anything except church history?

 

[Phoneman-777]

"In the New Testament and in Jewish writings a term signifying the abodeof bliss in the other world. According to IV Macc. xiii. 17, the righteous who die for their faith are received by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in paradise (compare Matt. viii. 11: "Many shall come from the east and the west and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven"). In Ḳid. 72b, Adda bar Ahaba, a rabbi of the third century, is said to be "sitting in the bosom of Abraham," which means that he has entered paradise. With this should be compared the statement of R. Levi (Gen. R. xlviii.): "In the world to come Abraham sits at the gate of Gehenna, permitting none to enter who bears the seal of the covenant" "
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/362-abraham-s-bosom

I appreciate the info, but I'm also familiar with how Judaism willingly distorts the truth so as to advance themselves and block Christianity. For instance, their absolute disdain for anyone who attempts to find Jesus in Daniel 9.