The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Doesn't help. You added "over time" in your 'reding' of v.23. But that's not what the verse says.
It says plainly that "when He comes" THEN "those who belong to Him".
So, ALL believers from all time (Adam on) will be resurrrected "when He comes".
I asked in my previous response, how many times do you think Jesus "comes"?
How do you know there will be "those who belong to Him" during the Millennium? iow, where does the Bible indicate that there will be people coming to faith during the Millennium?
[QUORTE]Jesus comes to the air, then later He comes to the earth. That makes twice.[/QUOTE]
Nope. He comes once more. His First Advent was as a baby, to become the Suffering Servant. His Second Advent is when He comes back as King of kings and Lord of lords.
Fact: many OT leaders thought there were 2 Messiahs, from their reading of Scripture. A "lesser" and a "greater" Messiah. The lesser was the suffering servant who served the greater Messiah, the King of the Jews. Obviously they were sadly mistaken. What they were reading was about Jesus' TWO Advents.
So, there are only 2 "comings" of the Lord. One has already occurred and there will be ONE more, at the Second Advent.
Here's a verse that supports this:
Acts 3:21 -
New International Version
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
The previous edition of the NIV says "He must remain in heaven until the time comes..."
Here are some more translations:
New Living Translation
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Berean Study Bible
Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Amplified Bible
whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Contemporary English Version
But Jesus must stay in heaven until God makes all things new, just as his holy prophets promised long ago
Good News Translation
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets of long ago.
International Standard Version
He must remain in heaven until the time of universal restitution, which God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets.
Yes, I know many of these are paraphrased translations. However, in my lexicon, the Greek word for "receive" means "to retain, contain", so "remain" is a legitimate translation.
So, heaven will retain and contain Jesus "until the time comes for God to restore all things".
This verse prevents any notion of a pretrib trip to "the clouds" to gather believers, give them glorified bodies and take them all back to heaven.
Just saying.
Doesn't help. You added "over time" in your 'reding' of v.23. But that's not what the verse says.
It says plainly that "when He comes" THEN "those who belong to Him".
So, ALL believers from all time (Adam on) will be resurrrected "when He comes".
I asked in my previous response, how many times do you think Jesus "comes"?
How do you know there will be "those who belong to Him" during the Millennium? iow, where does the Bible indicate that there will be people coming to faith during the Millennium?
[QUORTE]Jesus comes to the air, then later He comes to the earth. That makes twice.[/QUOTE]
Nope. He comes once more. His First Advent was as a baby, to become the Suffering Servant. His Second Advent is when He comes back as King of kings and Lord of lords.
Fact: many OT leaders thought there were 2 Messiahs, from their reading of Scripture. A "lesser" and a "greater" Messiah. The lesser was the suffering servant who served the greater Messiah, the King of the Jews. Obviously they were sadly mistaken. What they were reading was about Jesus' TWO Advents.
So, there are only 2 "comings" of the Lord. One has already occurred and there will be ONE more, at the Second Advent.
Here's a verse that supports this:
Acts 3:21 -
New International Version
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
The previous edition of the NIV says "He must remain in heaven until the time comes..."
Here are some more translations:
New Living Translation
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Berean Study Bible
Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Amplified Bible
whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Contemporary English Version
But Jesus must stay in heaven until God makes all things new, just as his holy prophets promised long ago
Good News Translation
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets of long ago.
International Standard Version
He must remain in heaven until the time of universal restitution, which God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets.
Yes, I know many of these are paraphrased translations. However, in my lexicon, the Greek word for "receive" means "to retain, contain", so "remain" is a legitimate translation.
So, heaven will retain and contain Jesus "until the time comes for God to restore all things".
This verse prevents any notion of a pretrib trip to "the clouds" to gather believers, give them glorified bodies and take them all back to heaven.
Just saying.
ABSOLUTELY MISSED THE QUESTIONS, SO I'LL RE POST
then shall that Wicked be revealed,
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION IS REVEALED
BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD.
THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD REVEALS WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND THAT IS THE SON OF PERDITION. THE WHOLE WORLD IS BEING DECEIVED, ONCE EXPOSED BY THE BRIGHTNESS THE DECEPTION ENDS. ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD BECOME CHRISTS THE SECOND SATAN IS REVEALED AS BEING A FAKE, A LIAR.
Picture yourself waking up and finding yourself in a pitch black room. There is someone there telling you what the room looks like. As he describes all the details of the room you can in your mind imagine exactly what it will look like when the light comes on. The light comes on and what is revealed is the exact opposite of what you were told. It's dreadful.
Could anyone ever make you believe it again? Are there any words that could be said to make you believe it was a beautiful room? NO. Once the light has shown you the truth, no lie can be told.
The BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST coming to the earth can not be hid. Remember Moses, he had to wear a veil over his face because he shined so bright the people couldn't look at him. That was from being in THE PRESENCE of the Lord on the Mount. What if GOD would have not 'HID' himself? What if He would have been up in the sky? That is where the LORD will be. THESE ARE SOME of the facts THE WORDS DON'T DEAL WITH but for TRUTH to be told the words have to fit the facts.
Once that light shines on this earth there is NO TURNING BACK to make anyone ever believe anything else. Satan may have at one time been 'the morning star' but HE WAS CAST DOWN and there is no more light in him. These are the obstacles that must be over come for THE THEORY. You are going to have to overcome SUPERNATURAL activities with earthly words. It can't be done.
Satan will act wickedly. Satan will deceive. Satan will claim to be God. Satan will succeed UNTIL THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS.
THE LIGHT EXPOSES EVERYTHING. EVERY TRUTH AND EVERY LIE IS EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT. CHRIST IS THAT LIGHT. WHEN THAT LIGHT IS SEEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW.
How does pre trib overcome that? It can try and in earthly minds it will succeed. BUT in the spiritual realm it can not.
Christ CAN NOT come to the earth and the world not see or know. PERIOD. THAT is the SUPERNATURAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION.
You MUST stop being about the 'EARTHLY WORDS' and BE ABOUT THE REALITY of the SPIRITUAL WORLD.
So you are probably going to say it is before Satan and so nothing will be exposed. BUT you still can't change the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST. YOU CAN'T UNDO THE LIGHT. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE LIGHT NOT SHINE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE WORLD FORGET THE LIGHT. THE LIGHT CAN'T COME TO THE WORLD AND NOT EXPOSE ALL THE 'MYSTERY OF INIQUITY' THAT IS ALREADY WORKING.
Yes, you can CONVINCE others that is what the 'words' say, but those words will never tell the TRUTH of the situation.
AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING
When that happens
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, BROUGHT OUT OF HIDING, SHOWN TO BE WHO HE REALLY IS WHEN LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS. SATAN CAN REMAIN HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS BUT ONCE THE LIGHT SHINES THERE IS NO DARKNESS LEFT TO HIDE IN. HE CAN ONLY BE WHO HE IS and he is deception. And those who spread his lies are doing his work.
THIS VERSE IS SPEAKING TO 'THE ENDING' OF SATANS '7' YEARS RULE (not really 7 years though)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE LORD, CHRIST IS THE LORD. That day DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, IT WAS AND STILL IS yet FUTURE.
THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF SATANS TRIB (the world having been deceived) AND BEFORE GODS WRATH
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
WHAT SATAN IS DOING RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST SHOWS UP, (TWO WITNESSES ABOUT TO RISE UP, BEEN DEAD 3 1/2 DAYS)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
NOW WE KNOW WHAT IS HOLDING UP THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM - WAR IN HEAVEN -SATAN TRIB
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
PEOPLE ALREADY BEING LED ASTRAY - will be up until he is kicked out of heaven by Michael
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Again, Paul is going to say the exact same thing but add some details
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING
again PAUL MAKING SURE THE ORDER IS KNOWN. NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL ANYONE EVER SEE CHRIST
9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
then shall that Wicked be revealed,
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION IS REVEALED
BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD.
THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE COMING OF THE LORD REVEALS WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE GOD AND THAT IS THE SON OF PERDITION. THE WHOLE WORLD IS BEING DECEIVED, ONCE EXPOSED BY THE BRIGHTNESS THE DECEPTION ENDS. ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD BECOME CHRISTS THE SECOND SATAN IS REVEALED AS BEING A FAKE, A LIAR.
Picture yourself waking up and finding yourself in a pitch black room. There is someone there telling you what the room looks like. As he describes all the details of the room you can in your mind imagine exactly what it will look like when the light comes on. The light comes on and what is revealed is the exact opposite of what you were told. It's dreadful.
Could anyone ever make you believe it again? Are there any words that could be said to make you believe it was a beautiful room? NO. Once the light has shown you the truth, no lie can be told.
The BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST coming to the earth can not be hid. Remember Moses, he had to wear a veil over his face because he shined so bright the people couldn't look at him. That was from being in THE PRESENCE of the Lord on the Mount. What if GOD would have not 'HID' himself? What if He would have been up in the sky? That is where the LORD will be. THESE ARE SOME of the facts THE WORDS DON'T DEAL WITH but for TRUTH to be told the words have to fit the facts.
Once that light shines on this earth there is NO TURNING BACK to make anyone ever believe anything else. Satan may have at one time been 'the morning star' but HE WAS CAST DOWN and there is no more light in him. These are the obstacles that must be over come for THE THEORY. You are going to have to overcome SUPERNATURAL activities with earthly words. It can't be done.
Satan will act wickedly. Satan will deceive. Satan will claim to be God. Satan will succeed UNTIL THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS.
THE LIGHT EXPOSES EVERYTHING. EVERY TRUTH AND EVERY LIE IS EXPOSED BY THE LIGHT. CHRIST IS THAT LIGHT. WHEN THAT LIGHT IS SEEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW.
How does pre trib overcome that? It can try and in earthly minds it will succeed. BUT in the spiritual realm it can not.
Christ CAN NOT come to the earth and the world not see or know. PERIOD. THAT is the SUPERNATURAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION.
You MUST stop being about the 'EARTHLY WORDS' and BE ABOUT THE REALITY of the SPIRITUAL WORLD.
So you are probably going to say it is before Satan and so nothing will be exposed. BUT you still can't change the BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST. YOU CAN'T UNDO THE LIGHT. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE LIGHT NOT SHINE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE WORLD FORGET THE LIGHT. THE LIGHT CAN'T COME TO THE WORLD AND NOT EXPOSE ALL THE 'MYSTERY OF INIQUITY' THAT IS ALREADY WORKING.
Yes, you can CONVINCE others that is what the 'words' say, but those words will never tell the TRUTH of the situation.
AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING
When that happens
THE WICKED IS REVEALED, BROUGHT OUT OF HIDING, SHOWN TO BE WHO HE REALLY IS WHEN LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS. SATAN CAN REMAIN HIDDEN IN THE DARKNESS BUT ONCE THE LIGHT SHINES THERE IS NO DARKNESS LEFT TO HIDE IN. HE CAN ONLY BE WHO HE IS and he is deception. And those who spread his lies are doing his work.
THIS VERSE IS SPEAKING TO 'THE ENDING' OF SATANS '7' YEARS RULE (not really 7 years though)
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE LORD, CHRIST IS THE LORD. That day DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN, IT WAS AND STILL IS yet FUTURE.
THE VERY LAST MOMENT OF SATANS TRIB (the world having been deceived) AND BEFORE GODS WRATH
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
WHAT SATAN IS DOING RIGHT BEFORE CHRIST SHOWS UP, (TWO WITNESSES ABOUT TO RISE UP, BEEN DEAD 3 1/2 DAYS)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
NOW WE KNOW WHAT IS HOLDING UP THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM - WAR IN HEAVEN -SATAN TRIB
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
PEOPLE ALREADY BEING LED ASTRAY - will be up until he is kicked out of heaven by Michael
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Again, Paul is going to say the exact same thing but add some details
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, AND SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING
again PAUL MAKING SURE THE ORDER IS KNOWN. NOT TILL AFTER SATAN WILL ANYONE EVER SEE CHRIST
9 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
You are Reframing that to just assume out of nowhere the ac is REVEALED at the second coming.
In fact, it says there is a departure from the faith FIRST.
THEN THE AC REVEALED.
" WHOM SHALL BE DESTROYED" LATER.
Again, your doctrine of omission ignores the comma.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
You are Reframing that to just assume out of nowhere the ac is REVEALED at the second coming.
In fact, it says there is a departure from the faith FIRST.
THEN THE AC REVEALED.
" WHOM SHALL BE DESTROYED" LATER.
Again, your doctrine of omission ignores the comma.
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
You are Reframing that to just assume out of nowhere the ac is REVEALED at the second coming.
If fact it says there is a departure from the faith FIRST.
THEN THE AC REVEALED.
" WHOM SHALL BE DESTROYED" LATER.
Again, you doctrine of omossiom ignores the comma.
Here is the one i called you out on for skipping matt 24:36 ->
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
You are Reframing that to just assume out of nowhere the ac is REVEALED at the second coming.
If fact it says there is a departure from the faith FIRST.
THEN THE AC REVEALED.
" WHOM SHALL BE DESTROYED" LATER.
Again, you doctrine of omossiom ignores the comma.
Here is the one i called you out on for skipping matt 24:36 ->
CLEARLY BEGINS AFTER THE 2ND ADVENT
'THE LAMB' IS ON THE EARTH STANDING AGAIN. REMEMBER THE DIVISIONS ARE MADE BY MAN SO DON'T MAKE THEM MEAN THINGS THEY DON'T.
NOTICE THERE IS NO DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN BEING SPOKEN OF
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
THE LORDS DAY IS BEGINNING
Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Revelation 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
THE WORDS OF GOD WILL BE PREACHED FOR THE LORDS DAY TOO, HENCE 'PRIESTS FOR 1000 YEARS'
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
FOLLOW THE HINTS - REMEMBER - NOT ALL HAVE EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR
A RECAP OF WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE PREVIOUSLY WE KNOW BECAUSE SATAN IS DESTROYED BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE LORDS COMING
Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
A WARNING TO US TO NOT BE A PART OF WHAT IS COMING
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO DO
Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
REMEMBER THE WARNING - ENDURE TO THE END
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
ANOTHER VERSE TO LET US KNOW THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS A BOOK NOT TO BE FOLLOWED IN THE ORDER IT IS WRITTEN
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
BACK TO MORE INFO FOR US AND WHAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE WITH THOSE WHO TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST UPON THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS RETURN
Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Revelation 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Revelation 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
THIS AGE IS ENDING. SEPARATION IS TAKING PLACE. EARTH IS BEING CLEANSED AND ALL THOSE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR ARE BEING AVENGED
Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
'THE LAMB' IS ON THE EARTH STANDING AGAIN. REMEMBER THE DIVISIONS ARE MADE BY MAN SO DON'T MAKE THEM MEAN THINGS THEY DON'T.
NOTICE THERE IS NO DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN BEING SPOKEN OF
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
THE LORDS DAY IS BEGINNING
Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Revelation 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
THE WORDS OF GOD WILL BE PREACHED FOR THE LORDS DAY TOO, HENCE 'PRIESTS FOR 1000 YEARS'
Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
FOLLOW THE HINTS - REMEMBER - NOT ALL HAVE EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR
A RECAP OF WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE PREVIOUSLY WE KNOW BECAUSE SATAN IS DESTROYED BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE LORDS COMING
Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
A WARNING TO US TO NOT BE A PART OF WHAT IS COMING
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO DO
Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
REMEMBER THE WARNING - ENDURE TO THE END
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
ANOTHER VERSE TO LET US KNOW THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS A BOOK NOT TO BE FOLLOWED IN THE ORDER IT IS WRITTEN
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
BACK TO MORE INFO FOR US AND WHAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE WITH THOSE WHO TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST UPON THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS RETURN
Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Revelation 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Revelation 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
THIS AGE IS ENDING. SEPARATION IS TAKING PLACE. EARTH IS BEING CLEANSED AND ALL THOSE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR ARE BEING AVENGED
Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Is this an accurate description of how JESUS sees the Bride?
thou hast left thy first love do the first works or else I will come unto thee quickly and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication and she repented not Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds And I will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked
Nothing there about apostacy.
Nothing at all.
And yet your entire attempt at the parable centers there and OMITS what IS THERE.
Lets take a REASONABLE view of it.
Simce you are omission centered, lets look at what is omitted.
1) no destroyed earth
2) no slaughter of thecearths inhabitants
3) no mark of the beast on any virgins or eben mentioned
4) no horse for the groom
5) no antichrist army
6)) no return to earth (the dwelling of the virgins).
7) Jesus takes them, NOT INTO BATTLE, BUT DIRECTLY TO THR MARRIAGE CHAMBER AND SHUTS THE DOOR.
Need more???
Omission is not your friend.
It is mine
Because i use it all.
You chose to center there.
Omission by convenience is not even close to high ground.
Nothing at all.
And yet your entire attempt at the parable centers there and OMITS what IS THERE.
Lets take a REASONABLE view of it.
Simce you are omission centered, lets look at what is omitted.
1) no destroyed earth
2) no slaughter of thecearths inhabitants
3) no mark of the beast on any virgins or eben mentioned
4) no horse for the groom
5) no antichrist army
6)) no return to earth (the dwelling of the virgins).
7) Jesus takes them, NOT INTO BATTLE, BUT DIRECTLY TO THR MARRIAGE CHAMBER AND SHUTS THE DOOR.
Need more???
Omission is not your friend.
It is mine
Because i use it all.
You chose to center there.
Omission by convenience is not even close to high ground.
Why would anyone keep making this claim when EVERYONE (including you) knows that there aren't any "pretrib rapture verses"?
The idea of 'rapture' only means that "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) the living believers are gathered up "in the clouds" and receive their
glorified bodies, just after all the dead saints from heaven get theirs first. There is NO VERSE showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
And YOU KNOW that.
No verse has ever been tortured when proving that the gathering of living believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.
btw, I'd like to make a point here. I use these forums to share the verses/passages that have CONVINCED ME of what I believe.
I have no desire to convince anyone of anything. All anyone can do is share the evidence for WHY they believe something.
That's what I do. If you can convince me or anyone else that there will be pretrib resurrection and rapture with a trip to heaven afterwards, then please do. But the verses have to be clear enough to understand from the words themselves, so that knocks out Matt 25 and your poorly understood parable of the virgins.
The idea of 'rapture' only means that "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) the living believers are gathered up "in the clouds" and receive their
glorified bodies, just after all the dead saints from heaven get theirs first. There is NO VERSE showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
And YOU KNOW that.
No verse has ever been tortured when proving that the gathering of living believers occurs "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.
btw, I'd like to make a point here. I use these forums to share the verses/passages that have CONVINCED ME of what I believe.
I have no desire to convince anyone of anything. All anyone can do is share the evidence for WHY they believe something.
That's what I do. If you can convince me or anyone else that there will be pretrib resurrection and rapture with a trip to heaven afterwards, then please do. But the verses have to be clear enough to understand from the words themselves, so that knocks out Matt 25 and your poorly understood parable of the virgins.
Absolutely said:
I called you out.
Specifically on what you omit.
By your dodge i can see you are off script, off balance and can not answer.
Oh oh. There's a problem. He doesn't do that much.
I called you out.
Specifically on what you omit.
By your dodge i can see you are off script, off balance and can not answer.
Oh oh. There's a problem. He doesn't do that much.
kleronomos said:
How about trying to teach just one thing
Oh wow. Great! How about a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Can you post a clear or VERY clear verse that shows this?
How about trying to teach just one thing
Oh wow. Great! How about a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?
Can you post a clear or VERY clear verse that shows this?
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