Observations on the Holocaust

[ZNP]

Do not be complacent

I just watched this again

The first time I watched this I was struck, why didn't they leave when they had the chance. This time it was so evident, they were faithless. I don't mean that in a negative way, they were Jews and yet the word of God had absolutely no place in their lives. They describe how they were patriotic, educated, pillars of society but not a peep about their faith or time on the word.

If you are faithless and you see what is going on the thought of moving is too big, you have to sell your business, your house, uproot your family, leave your friends, leave the only home you have known. So what you hear repeatedly is that "this will all blow over". Or, "this too will pass". Guess what, it did. This movie begins with 1935 and in ten years this whole Hitler thing will have run its course and passed. A hundred years later that will seem quick and short, but at the time ten years can seem an eternity.

But you also see that as the years progress they become clearer and clearer that they need to leave but the price for leaving goes up as well. In 1935 they could have sold but not in 1937. In 1935 they could have easily immigrated to France, but not in 1937. By that time no one in Europe or even the US was readily accepting Jews.

 

[ZNP]

What was the goal of Hitler?

1. Impoverishment of people just like today — destroying the middle class, the backbone of democracy.

2. Banishment — This separates them from society. At first it is disruptive as you have to replace the nurses, teachers and truck drivers. So this is a temporary goal while society adjusts.

3. Annihilation — expand abortion. Create a registry of drug users by providing them with freebies so that later you can annihilate them, sterilize men and women with the vaccine, and kill them. The Germans did not intend to kill everyone, just Jews, Idiots, Gays, Jehovah Witnesses, Gypsies, political dissidents, etc. In the same way the 1% can plan to kill 90% of the world’s population without affecting themselves or the people they keep for doing the menial labor.

4. To this end they need to move the Jews to Ghettos (“autonomous Jewish territories”). They call it a quarantine of the germ carriers. Make no mistake the “germ” referred to communism. The global elites were terrified of what happened during the communist revolution in Russia, that was the germ they were afraid of. Today the germ is Christianity, the idea that we are all sons of God and are destined to rule and reign with Christ. The 1% are as corrupt as you can possibly imagine, and probably worse. So they chafe at the Bible condemning them as sinners.

If you are a Christian and are not aware that we are in a spiritual warfare then you are blind.

 

[ZNP]

Why did the Germans go along?

1. many were just happy to get a job after the recession.

2. Hitler was standing up to other countries and gave the Germans some self respect.

3. Many were in the army and other occupations that demanded obedience without question.

4. Children were indoctrinated.

5. The press was giving a constant stream propaganda.

6. people were afraid to say differently publicly.

7. There was a fear to be associated with anyone who was speaking out,

 

[arthurfleminger]

It's surprising that Martin Luther advocated many of the policies of destruction that were adopted by Hitler. Hitler and his Nazis often quoted from Luther's thesis, "The Jews and Their Lies". In this book Luther showed his abject hatred for Jews.. Even though he existed hundreds of years before the Holocaust, Luther was a prime mover and his works/thoughts were implemented by the Nazis. Familiarize yourselves with ML's 'The Jews and Their Lies; The day I found out Martin Luther Hated Jews (rachelheldevans.com)

Also, the Nazis invoked Luther's hatred of the Jews in their propaganda, to the max, in order to justify the murder of the Jews: Nazis Used Martin Luther’s Anti-Semitism – The Forward

A lot of people aren't familiar with Luther's hatred of the Jews.

 

[arthurfleminger]

It's surprising that Martin Luther advocated many of the policies of destruction that were adopted by Hitler. Hitler and his Nazis often quoted from Luther's thesis, "The Jews and Their Lies". In this book Luther showed his abject hatred for Jews.. Even though he existed hundreds of years before the Holocaust, Luther was a prime mover and his works/thoughts were implemented by the Nazis. Familiarize yourselves with ML's 'The Jews and Their Lies; The day I found out Martin Luther Hated Jews (rachelheldevans.com)

Also, the Nazis invoked Luther's hatred of the Jews in their propaganda, to the max, in order to justify the murder of the Jews: Nazis Used Martin Luther’s Anti-Semitism – The Forward

A lot of people aren't familiar with Luther's hatred of the Jews.

Luther' antisemitism and virulent hatred of Jews and his influence in Nazi policies/propaganda are easily researchable on Google.

 

[ZNP]

It's surprising that Martin Luther advocated many of the policies of destruction that were adopted by Hitler. Hitler and his Nazis often quoted from Luther's thesis, "The Jews and Their Lies". In this book Luther showed his abject hatred for Jews.. Even though he existed hundreds of years before the Holocaust, Luther was a prime mover and his works/thoughts were implemented by the Nazis. Familiarize yourselves with ML's 'The Jews and Their Lies; The day I found out Martin Luther Hated Jews (rachelheldevans.com)

Also, the Nazis invoked Luther's hatred of the Jews in their propaganda, to the max, in order to justify the murder of the Jews: Nazis Used Martin Luther’s Anti-Semitism – The Forward

A lot of people aren't familiar with Luther's hatred of the Jews.

I don't find this surprising at all. Martin Luther came out of the Middle East, the Bible was essentially closed to most people right up until him and this was a standard dogma of the Catholic church about the Jews killing Jesus.

 

[JStates]

Luther lived in spiritually dark times. He was a great man in some ways, but had serious failings in others, as did the patriarchs of the Bible and as do we all.

The Protestant Reformations were not generally peaceful or easy. Germany had a lot of independent princes/city-states at the time, I believe, which helped allow dissent against the Catholic machine to grow, but resulted in different flavors of Protestants who didn't always get along.

Politics and faith were still greatly entangled. Sometimes Protestants killed Protestants over doctrinal issues.

A bit like Truthers today... well, they don't generally kill each other. But they are trying to piece together truth for themselves and often come to similar, but also significantly different, conclusions at the end of the day.

 

[ZNP]

Whither thou goest I will go

One thing that stands out is how the Jews were truly clueless to the plans. The were in Warsaw, Poland observing the Germans as they built a wall around their ghetto and they were convinced that they “needed them” and so they “had not choice” but to aid the Germans in whatever jobs they requested. What is so clear is that the best opportunity for the Jews to resist would have been immediately. Once they wall you off in Poland you are out of sight and out of mind of most Germans. Make them do it to you in Berlin, in all the cities and towns of Germany and it would be much more real and offensive to the Germans.

They saw Jews being worked to death, beaten and even shot and yet they argued they must cooperate because in one town some Jewish council didn’t deliver all the work that was required and as a result they took the entire Jewish council out and shot them. So you had Jews arguing “we must obey”.

Why were they so clueless? You don’t hear anyone reading the Bible, seeing the prophecies, understanding that this is the atoning sacrifice for crucifying the Lord. If you do not see the spiritual warfare that is going on you are completely confused by what was happening. This will especially be true during the Tribulation.

The Jews could not attend public school, go to public libraries or use public buses. How much clearer could they be — you are not welcome here. They should have left when they had a chance. By the time they are requiring you to carry your papers with you everywhere you are no longer allowed to leave. A few here and there might be able to sneak out and escape, but most would be caught and shot. To make it more difficult they made it illegal for a Jew to have a knapsack. So if you were going to sneak out of Germany you would have to do that with the clothes on your back.

2 hours into this movie (part 1 and 2) you hear the very first verse reference, it is from the book of Ruth — “whither thou goest I will go”. If only the Jews had had that attitude with the Lord.

 

[JStates]

The story is told of a young Jewish woman standing in line waiting her turn in the gas chambers, lamenting to her neighbor that she will never marry or have children. The docility of these people as they were slaughtered amazes me.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I don't find this surprising at all. Martin Luther came out of the Middle East, the Bible was essentially closed to most people right up until him and this was a standard dogma of the Catholic church about the Jews killing Jesus.

Blimey mate - you gone silly now!

Martin Luther came out of the Middle East?

We are talking das uber Luther von Eisleben. Correct?

 

[arthurfleminger]

I don't find this surprising at all. Martin Luther came out of the Middle East, the Bible was essentially closed to most people right up until him and this was a standard dogma of the Catholic church about the Jews killing Jesus.

I don't fully understand your reply. You say that the Bible was essentially closed to most people right up to the time of Martin Luther. You fail to mention that, prior to the time of Luther there was no printing press, so Bibles were painstakingly hand written and few and far between. Also, up to the time of Luther, there were no public schools, the vast majority of people, over 90% couldn't read or write. And I surely don't understand your point about Luther coming from the Middle East, even if that is true how did affect his hatred for the Jews? Please clarify your positions on the points I mentioned. Thanks

 

[ZNP]

I don't fully understand your reply. You say that the Bible was essentially closed to most people right up to the time of Martin Luther. You fail to mention that, prior to the time of Luther there was no printing press, so Bibles were painstakingly hand written and few and far between. Also, up to the time of Luther, there were no public schools, the vast majority of people, over 90% couldn't read or write. And I surely don't understand your point about Luther coming from the Middle East, even if that is true how did affect his hatred for the Jews? Please clarify your positions on the points I mentioned. Thanks

Yes that is my point, the sermons were usually in latin which the locals didn't understand, people didn't have their own Bible and few people really even knew how to read.

 

[arthurfleminger]

Yes that is my point, the sermons were usually in latin which the locals didn't understand, people didn't have their own Bible and few people really even knew how to read.

I still don't understand your initial post where you inferred that it wasn't surprising that Luther hated the Jews because he was from the Middle East and that Bibles were closed to most people. The fact is that Luther wasn't from the Middle East and that he was not only highly educated but that he also had the Bible available to him throughout his teens and adult life. None of what you posted was true about Luther.

Despite his access to the Bible and despite the fact that Luther was highly educated he turned his hatred on the Jews and advocated their destruction and murder because they wouldn't listen to him. And, even though Luther lived hundreds of years before the Nazi Holocaust, his writings and hatred of the Jews were greatly influential in helping the Nazis propagandize the righteousness of the murder of the Jews.

 

[ZNP]

I still don't understand your initial post where you inferred that it wasn't surprising that Luther hated the Jews because he was from the Middle East and that Bibles were closed to most people. The fact is that Luther wasn't from the Middle East and that he was not only highly educated but that he also had the Bible available to him throughout his teens and adult life. None of what you posted was true about Luther.

Despite his access to the Bible and despite the fact that Luther was highly educated he turned his hatred on the Jews and advocated their destruction and murder because they wouldn't listen to him. And, even though Luther lived hundreds of years before the Nazi Holocaust, his writings and hatred of the Jews were greatly influential in helping the Nazis propagandize the righteousness of the murder of the Jews.

Sorry big mistake I meant middle ages, maybe it was auto correct

 

[arthurfleminger]

Do not be complacent

I just watched this again

The first time I watched this I was struck, why didn't they leave when they had the chance. This time it was so evident, they were faithless. I don't mean that in a negative way, they were Jews and yet the word of God had absolutely no place in their lives. They describe how they were patriotic, educated, pillars of society but not a peep about their faith or time on the word.

If you are faithless and you see what is going on the thought of moving is too big, you have to sell your business, your house, uproot your family, leave your friends, leave the only home you have known. So what you hear repeatedly is that "this will all blow over". Or, "this too will pass". Guess what, it did. This movie begins with 1935 and in ten years this whole Hitler thing will have run its course and passed. A hundred years later that will seem quick and short, but at the time ten years can seem an eternity.

But you also see that as the years progress they become clearer and clearer that they need to leave but the price for leaving goes up as well. In 1935 they could have sold but not in 1937. In 1935 they could have easily immigrated to France, but not in 1937. By that time no one in Europe or even the US was readily accepting Jews.

You prove your ignorance of the situation for the Jews in 1938, in Nazi Germany. You ask why they didn't leave. Simple answer, they had no place to go. No Western countries would take them. In 1938, the US and 32 Countries met in France and held the 'Evian Conference' to try and determine who would take the Jews, from Nazi Germany. None of them would, including the USA. Read and learn about the Evian Conference before you ask, why didn't the Jews leave.

Evian Conference: Évian Conference - Wikipedia

Nobody wanted to take Germany's Jews, despite their persecution in Germany in 1938. Also, full scale murder of the Jews, the Holocaust, didn't start until the invasion of Russia in 1941.

 

[ZNP]

You prove your ignorance of the situation for the Jews in 1938, in Nazi Germany. You ask why they didn't leave. Simple answer, they had no place to go. No Western countries would take them. In 1938, the US and 32 Countries met in France and held the 'Evian Conference' to try and determine who would take the Jews, from Nazi Germany. None of them would, including the USA. Read and learn about the Evian Conference before you ask, why didn't the Jews leave.

Evian Conference: Évian Conference - Wikipedia

Nobody wanted to take Germany's Jews, despite their persecution in Germany in 1938. Also, full scale murder of the Jews, the Holocaust, didn't start until the invasion of Russia in 1941.

No, I was asking why they didn't go in 1935, I already said that by 1938 most countries wouldn't take them.

The story was quite clear -- you could see the winds of this anti semitic hatred in 1935 but the Jews living in Germany didn't want to believe it was anything but a transitory nut job. They felt they were an important part of the community, respected, appreciated, needed. This was wishful thinking. The truth is that the cost to move would have been high, it would have been difficult, imagine moving to another country, it isn't easy. No other country speaks German so you might/would have a language problem. It is a lot of work to sell your house, your business, move to a strange country with a strange language. I get it. Without a vision the people perish. They did not have a vision of what was coming.

 

[JStates]

You prove your ignorance of the situation for the Jews in 1938, in Nazi Germany. You ask why they didn't leave. Simple answer, they had no place to go. No Western countries would take them. In 1938, the US and 32 Countries met in France and held the 'Evian Conference' to try and determine who would take the Jews, from Nazi Germany. None of them would, including the USA. Read and learn about the Evian Conference before you ask, why didn't the Jews leave.

Evian Conference: Évian Conference - Wikipedia

Nobody wanted to take Germany's Jews, despite their persecution in Germany in 1938. Also, full scale murder of the Jews, the Holocaust, didn't start until the invasion of Russia in 1941.

Religious Judaism borrowed from the mystery religions during the Babylonian captivity and became something other than the faith prescribed by God to the Hebrews.

The way they do circumcision now is vulgar, abominable, immoral. And I've read about child sacrifices in some of the more occulted circles. I wonder if some of this resulted in what you describe, a sort of generalization of all Jews (ethnic) based on the heinous sins of a few religious Jews practicing some of the darker elements of that religion.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

No, I was asking why they didn't go in 1935, I already said that by 1938 most countries wouldn't take them.

The story was quite clear -- you could see the winds of this anti semitic hatred in 1935 but the Jews living in Germany didn't want to believe it was anything but a transitory nut job. They felt they were an important part of the community, respected, appreciated, needed. This was wishful thinking. The truth is that the cost to move would have been high, it would have been difficult, imagine moving to another country, it isn't easy. No other country speaks German so you might/would have a language problem. It is a lot of work to sell your house, your business, move to a strange country with a strange language. I get it. Without a vision the people perish. They did not have a vision of what was coming.

It is hard for people who are comfortable to make a move. As you said the cost is too high. Even in 1938, no one would have thought that Nazis would stoop so low to allow gas chambers. The Warsaw ghetto was not established until 1940, by around that time it was too late. To be fair, at that time, no one had a vision of what was coming except the Nazis.

It is people who have nothing who are ready to move. There are a lot of drug cartels, etc. in Mexico, Central America, etc, however people are willing to risk everything even their lives along a dangerous trek to come to the U.S.

 

[arthurfleminger]

No, I was asking why they didn't go in 1935, I already said that by 1938 most countries wouldn't take them.

The story was quite clear -- you could see the winds of this anti semitic hatred in 1935 but the Jews living in Germany didn't want to believe it was anything but a transitory nut job. They felt they were an important part of the community, respected, appreciated, needed. This was wishful thinking. The truth is that the cost to move would have been high, it would have been difficult, imagine moving to another country, it isn't easy. No other country speaks German so you might/would have a language problem. It is a lot of work to sell your house, your business, move to a strange country with a strange language. I get it. Without a vision the people perish. They did not have a vision of what was coming.

Even in 1935, when the Nazis were putting pressure for the Jews to leave Germany, the Nazis wouldn't allow any emigrating Jews to take any of their possessions/assets with them. How could the Jews leave and move elsewhere, with no assets, no job, and again, where would they go? Even in 1935 no countries wanted to take the German Jews.

 

[ZNP]

It is hard for people who are comfortable to make a move. As you said the cost is too high. Even in 1938, no one would have thought that Nazis would stoop so low to allow gas chambers. The Warsaw ghetto was not established until 1940, by around that time it was too late. To be fair, at that time, no one had a vision of what was coming except the Nazis.

It is people who have nothing who are ready to move. There are a lot of drug cartels, etc. in Mexico, Central America, etc, however people are willing to risk everything even their lives along a dangerous trek to come to the U.S.

To be fully fair the prophecies were in the Bible. Did anyone understand them? Don't know, sometimes hindsight is 20/20 but at the time it would seem impossible to understand.

What I think is very noticieable to me is that no one in these movies is portrayed as being a jew who was actually in the Bible. I find it hard to believe that if you were one who was in constant fellowship with the Lord that He would not have told you to get out of Germany before everything went south.