Doctrine of Unconditional Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#2,361
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#2,361
brightfame52 said:
A Saviour saves not make Salvation available.
Click to expand...
It's all about grace, which calvinism seems to know nothing about.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Eph 2-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Calvinism doesn't accept that God's grace OFFERS salvation to everyone.
Calvinism demands that salvation is unconditional by God. Scripture says we are saved by GRACE, which is through faith.

Calvinistic claims are unbiblical.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#2,362
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#2,362
rogerg said:
The proof is the verse itself. The "it is" isn't there.
Click to expand...
Check any interlinear. "it is" is in brackets, which shows the meaning is there. Are you trying to argue that the gift ISN'T of God???

The "gift of God" refers back to and clarifies the "not of". Not of themselves but of God - "of" means:

  1. out of, from, by, away from
Click to expand...
You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#2,363
Jul 13, 2021
3,672
570
113
#2,363
FreeGrace2 said:
Check any interlinear. "it is" is in brackets, which shows the meaning is there. Are you trying to argue that the gift ISN'T of God???
Click to expand...
I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#2,365
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
#2,365
rogerg said:
I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
Click to expand...
And I showed that salvation is the gift. There are no verses that say faith is a gift.

God created man with a conscience with which to make CHOICES. Faith is a choice. A choice to trust what God says.

Man believes with his heart. Faith is trust. Man chooses to either believe what God says or not.

Calvinism at its core is a system of puppetry or robotics. Not biblical.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#2,367
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
960
113
#2,367
rogerg said:
I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
Click to expand...
Scripture please.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#2,369
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
960
113
#2,369
rogerg said:
I am saying the verse means the receiving of salvation AND faith are by God - the receiving of them is God's process (that is the "that") and is manifested in the receiving of God.
Click to expand...
Eph 2:8 the main point is salvation and is by grace received through faith. The word "through" plays an important role here. It means faith is the medium or by the instrumentality how a person receives salvation. It is not the one that is received.it is salvation.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#2,373
Jul 13, 2021
3,672
570
113
#2,373
fredoheaven said:
Eph 2:8 the main point is salvation and is by grace received through faith. The word "through" plays an important role here. It means faith is the medium or by the instrumentality how a person receives salvation. It is not the one that is received.it is salvation.
Click to expand...
No, by the receiving of the gift of God is how one becomes saved. I am not addressing how anyone becomes chosen for that, only that those who are receive Him. My point of view on how that occurs has been made clear many times previously.
I think the main point of the verse is to enlighten us to the process of salvation, the product of which is salvation. The verse tells us the process itself was not of themselves but of God: " and that not of yourselves", in other words, it is God's process and nothing that they (or we) can do, only God can: Faith and salvation are received of that process. "It is the gift (singular) of God" - in other words, God Himself being the gift. However, it also informs that with God as the gift, faith and salvation come from Him, but that faith was Christ's faith not theirs.
By the verse saying the "gift of God", it told the Ephesians to disregard thoughts they might have of their salvation originating from them.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#2,374
Jul 13, 2021
3,672
570
113
#2,374
John146 said:
Many times but not in the context of believing.
Click to expand...
[Jhn 6:29 KJV] "29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
That do it?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#2,377
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#2,377
rogerg said:
God's work for a man to believe.
Faith is a work
Click to expand...
Were these Israelites elected to believe or was that God’s doing? Why did they need a sign to believe?

Exodus 4:
4 And the Lord said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand:
5 That they may believe that the Lord God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#2,378
Jul 13, 2021
3,672
570
113
#2,378
John146 said:
Were these Israelites elected to believe or was that God’s doing?
Click to expand...
I don't understand your question? Election is God's doing and from that, those elected, at a time of God's choosing, believe.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#2,379
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
960
113
#2,379
rogerg said:
No, by the receiving of the gift of God is how one becomes saved. I am not addressing how anyone becomes chosen for that, only that those who are receive Him. My point of view on how that occurs has been made clear many times previously.
I think the main point of the verse is to enlighten us to the process of salvation, the product of which is salvation. The verse tells us the process itself was not of themselves but of God: " and that not of yourselves", in other words, it is God's process and nothing that they (or we) can do, only God can: Faith and salvation are received of that process. "It is the gift (singular) of God" - in other words, God Himself being the gift. However, it also informs that with God as the gift, faith and salvation come from Him, but that faith was Christ's faith not theirs.
By the verse saying the "gift of God", it told the Ephesians to disregard thoughts they might have of their salvation originating from them.
Click to expand...
Of course, you did not address that "through", then, saying, this gift is singular but you are trying to tweak "salvation and faith" (plural) as singular. You need to choose, the "gift (singular) of God" is either salvation or faith. God's pattern of this gift of God as said never refer to faith. It is salvation or eternal life, Holy Spirit etc. but not used as faith.
 
P

peldom10

Banned
#2,380
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
#2,380
rogerg said:
No, by the receiving of the gift of God is how one becomes saved. I am not addressing how anyone becomes chosen for that, only that those who are receive Him. My point of view on how that occurs has been made clear many times previously.
I think the main point of the verse is to enlighten us to the process of salvation, the product of which is salvation. The verse tells us the process itself was not of themselves but of God: " and that not of yourselves", in other words, it is God's process and nothing that they (or we) can do, only God can: Faith and salvation are received of that process. "It is the gift (singular) of God" - in other words, God Himself being the gift. However, it also informs that with God as the gift, faith and salvation come from Him, but that faith was Christ's faith not theirs.
By the verse saying the "gift of God", it told the Ephesians to disregard thoughts they might have of their salvation originating from them.
Click to expand...
Properly expressed:.......enlighten us to the process of grace/forgiveness, the product of which is salvation....

Just so the novice is not confused.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.