The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else?
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Who is Jesus?
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Who is the Lord of the Sabbath?
Matthew 12:8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
What is a command and a choice?
There is no choice in command. When does one chose when commanded? 4th commandment
Maybe the law is a recommendation?
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Who is the Lord of the Sabbath?
Matthew 12:8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
What is a command and a choice?
There is no choice in command. When does one chose when commanded? 4th commandment
Maybe the law is a recommendation?
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Please see this post which pre-addressed your responses.
https://christianchat.com/threads/t...cal-day-or-something-else.204024/post-4770054
https://christianchat.com/threads/t...cal-day-or-something-else.204024/post-4770054
Please see this post which pre-addressed this passage.
https://christianchat.com/threads/t...cal-day-or-something-else.204024/post-4770054
https://christianchat.com/threads/t...cal-day-or-something-else.204024/post-4770054
Isaiah is cited in the context of the New Heavens and new earth, and I even said that is why it was cited. Isaiah shows the monthly meeting and weekly meeting to worship God in the New Heavens and new earth. The Sabbath, the seventh day rest of God did not end with Calvary AD 31.
You ask about the New Moon. Good question.
Isaiah 66's context of new heavens and new earth, and the month therein is found in Ezekiel and Revelation.
Ezek 47:12: "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."
Rev 2:7: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
Rev 22:2: "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."
Rev 22:14: "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
The New moons reveal that event to come. Since AD 31, and fulfillment of Passover to Pentecost, moons were still counted, but not as type, but antitype, from the 3rd month (Sivan) when Pentecost occured, Acts 2:1-4,18-19,33; Psalms 133:1-3; 1 Peter 1:12; Revelation 5:6, unto the antitypical month of Ethanim (1 Kings 8:2), which was anti-typically "five months" (Revelation 9:5,6,10), in AD 1833/4, which tied into the stars falling as Revelation 6:13, which was 40 years after the beginning of 1793 (start of the 3 1/2 day/years of Revelation 11:9,11, unto AD 1797/8 the end of the 3 1/2 day years and end of the 1,260 and 1,290 of Daniel & Revelation), and ten years before the 50th year and anti-typical Jubilee of AD 1843/4 (end of the 2,300 and 1,335 of Daniel & Revelation, see Dan. 8:13-14,26; Rev. 9:13-15).
We are anti-typically in the 7th month still, nearing the close of the Anti-typical Day of Atonement, as seen in Leviticus 16 & 23; Revelation 20 at least.
The Next New Moon anti-typically will be after the anti-typical 7th month is over, after the final anti-typical feast of Tabernacles takes place.
Rev 7:9: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
See also end of Rev. 14.
Thus the next New Moon anti-/typically takes place as Isaiah said, New Heavens and New Earth with the tree of life once again there in Eden restored, the first dominion.
The 7th day is not a type of shadow, since God's law is light (Proverbs 6:23). The 7th day, the Sabbath of the LORD is an eternal memorial (Remember, Exodus 20:8).
Thank you for your question, as it gives me opportunity to lay out the scriptures (truth; John 17:17) of the matter for all to see and test by those scriptures.
You ask about the New Moon. Good question.
Isaiah 66's context of new heavens and new earth, and the month therein is found in Ezekiel and Revelation.
Ezek 47:12: "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."
Rev 2:7: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
Rev 22:2: "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."
Rev 22:14: "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
The New moons reveal that event to come. Since AD 31, and fulfillment of Passover to Pentecost, moons were still counted, but not as type, but antitype, from the 3rd month (Sivan) when Pentecost occured, Acts 2:1-4,18-19,33; Psalms 133:1-3; 1 Peter 1:12; Revelation 5:6, unto the antitypical month of Ethanim (1 Kings 8:2), which was anti-typically "five months" (Revelation 9:5,6,10), in AD 1833/4, which tied into the stars falling as Revelation 6:13, which was 40 years after the beginning of 1793 (start of the 3 1/2 day/years of Revelation 11:9,11, unto AD 1797/8 the end of the 3 1/2 day years and end of the 1,260 and 1,290 of Daniel & Revelation), and ten years before the 50th year and anti-typical Jubilee of AD 1843/4 (end of the 2,300 and 1,335 of Daniel & Revelation, see Dan. 8:13-14,26; Rev. 9:13-15).
We are anti-typically in the 7th month still, nearing the close of the Anti-typical Day of Atonement, as seen in Leviticus 16 & 23; Revelation 20 at least.
The Next New Moon anti-typically will be after the anti-typical 7th month is over, after the final anti-typical feast of Tabernacles takes place.
Rev 7:9: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
See also end of Rev. 14.
Thus the next New Moon anti-/typically takes place as Isaiah said, New Heavens and New Earth with the tree of life once again there in Eden restored, the first dominion.
The 7th day is not a type of shadow, since God's law is light (Proverbs 6:23). The 7th day, the Sabbath of the LORD is an eternal memorial (Remember, Exodus 20:8).
Thank you for your question, as it gives me opportunity to lay out the scriptures (truth; John 17:17) of the matter for all to see and test by those scriptures.
It was in response to the question of the Roman calendrical week, which as shown reveals that day of "Saturn" of the Romans coincided with God's 7th day Sabbath, which as you just acknowledged, shows the weekly cycle of 7, ending in the Sabbath of the LORD, even among the "Jews", which is also what the first Christians were, and the Romans didn't make distinction between 'jews and 'christians' until later. To the Romans, Christianity was just a difference of opinion of names and rites that existed among the umbrella of Judaism, like Phariseeism, Sadduceeism, Esseneism, Zealotism were.
Please see the following resources:
https://archive.org/details/@matthew_tenverseight?query=Justin+martyr
https://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/sabbath-through-the-centuries/id/1st-century
https://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/sunday-fraud.htm
https://archive.org/details/@matthew_tenverseight?query=Jeff+Dowell
https://archive.org/details/james-arrabito-sabbath-history
https://archive.org/details/@matthew_tenverseight?query=Sabbath&and[]=mediatype:"texts"
https://archive.org/details/@matthew_tenverseight?query=Justin+martyr
https://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/sabbath-through-the-centuries/id/1st-century
https://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/sunday-fraud.htm
https://archive.org/details/@matthew_tenverseight?query=Jeff+Dowell
https://archive.org/details/james-arrabito-sabbath-history
https://archive.org/details/@matthew_tenverseight?query=Sabbath&and[]=mediatype:"texts"
The first Sabbath in scripture is Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11. There are also others beside that before Exodus 16 to be discussed as needed.
The biblical name of the second month is "Zif", and not "Iyyar", which is the Babylonian name. Interesting that you utilize the Babylonian name I use the scriptural name, but nevertheless, moving on.
The Feast of blowing Trumpets takes place in the 7th month ("Ethanim; 1 Kings 8:2), Leviticus 23:23-25. It is called the first day of the civil new year, not religious new year (as "Abib" is: Exodus 13:4, 23:15, 34:18; Deuteronomy 16:1; Later called "Nisan" after Babylonian captivity: Nehemiah 2:1; Esther 3:7).
"Rosh Hashanah is a two-day observance and celebration that begins on the first day of Tishrei, which is the seventh month of the ecclesiastical year. In contrast to the ecclesiastical lunar new year on the first day of the first month Nisan, the spring Passover month which marks Israel's exodus from Egypt, Rosh Hashanah marks the beginning of the civil year, according to the teachings of Judaism, and is the traditional anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve, the first man and woman according to the Hebrew Bible, as well as the initiation of humanity's role in God's world. " - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosh_Hashanah
The days of the months were set by the new moon sightings and would shift months by a few days plus or minus depending upon the sighting. The days of the week are unaffected by moons.
As for differences in calendrical calculations, please take into account the differences between the Rabbinical standardized calendar of Hillel II and the scriptural (aka Torah) calculation method for determining years and months. The days of the week are unaffected by either - https://archive.org/details/sda-karaites
I would basically agree that Exodus 16:1,20-21 would refer to Zif 15 in Exodus 16 as being the 7th day of the week, with the next day being the first day of the week, Zif 16. That would make Zif 22, the 7th day the Sabbath in Exodus 16.
However, attempting to calculate in reverse from Exodus 16 New moons and when each month began and ended unto creation is an impossibly with men's chronology.
However, the 7 day cycle is calculated easily, as it is simply consecutive congruent, 1-7 all the way to Adam in 6th day and God creating Heaven and earth in day 1 and resting the 7th day, even as God gave the proper timing in Exodus 20:8-11 having been present since Genesis 2:1-3's 7 days completion.
Your "modulo" question is based on your (or a so called 'lunar sabbatarian') error. It is a non-sensical question.
The biblical name of the second month is "Zif", and not "Iyyar", which is the Babylonian name. Interesting that you utilize the Babylonian name I use the scriptural name, but nevertheless, moving on.
The Feast of blowing Trumpets takes place in the 7th month ("Ethanim; 1 Kings 8:2), Leviticus 23:23-25. It is called the first day of the civil new year, not religious new year (as "Abib" is: Exodus 13:4, 23:15, 34:18; Deuteronomy 16:1; Later called "Nisan" after Babylonian captivity: Nehemiah 2:1; Esther 3:7).
"Rosh Hashanah is a two-day observance and celebration that begins on the first day of Tishrei, which is the seventh month of the ecclesiastical year. In contrast to the ecclesiastical lunar new year on the first day of the first month Nisan, the spring Passover month which marks Israel's exodus from Egypt, Rosh Hashanah marks the beginning of the civil year, according to the teachings of Judaism, and is the traditional anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve, the first man and woman according to the Hebrew Bible, as well as the initiation of humanity's role in God's world. " - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosh_Hashanah
The days of the months were set by the new moon sightings and would shift months by a few days plus or minus depending upon the sighting. The days of the week are unaffected by moons.
As for differences in calendrical calculations, please take into account the differences between the Rabbinical standardized calendar of Hillel II and the scriptural (aka Torah) calculation method for determining years and months. The days of the week are unaffected by either - https://archive.org/details/sda-karaites
I would basically agree that Exodus 16:1,20-21 would refer to Zif 15 in Exodus 16 as being the 7th day of the week, with the next day being the first day of the week, Zif 16. That would make Zif 22, the 7th day the Sabbath in Exodus 16.
However, attempting to calculate in reverse from Exodus 16 New moons and when each month began and ended unto creation is an impossibly with men's chronology.
However, the 7 day cycle is calculated easily, as it is simply consecutive congruent, 1-7 all the way to Adam in 6th day and God creating Heaven and earth in day 1 and resting the 7th day, even as God gave the proper timing in Exodus 20:8-11 having been present since Genesis 2:1-3's 7 days completion.
Your "modulo" question is based on your (or a so called 'lunar sabbatarian') error. It is a non-sensical question.
Yes, Genesis 2:1-3 speaks of God resting "the seventh day". It is singular because it was the first seventh day, of many more to come. God rests with His people the seventh day of the week, see Exodus 20:8-11. Read it carefully please.
Scripture records Jesus arising on "the first (day) of the week", and nowhere records "eighth day" for that resurrection in the NT. You simply placedh your own theological term into scripture and then made it sound as if it were scripture. You were not quoting scripture, you were quoting 'you'.
Exo 16:4: "Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no."
Exodus 16:4 along with Exodus 5 & 20:8-12, and Exodus 16:28, and morwp, show that the 7th day, the Sabbath of the LORD, was known long before then (see Abraham, Noah, Adam at least).
Exo 16:28: "And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?"
God asked, "How long ..."; think about that in the context of Exodus 16.
Then consider that Exodus 16:4 is not God merely testing "unfaithfulness", but rather for both faith and unbelief, proving that Sabbath sign and test is about faith. Turn to 1 Cor. 10 and see that how God interacted with they in the wilderness of sin, is how God tests us upon whom the ends of the world have come. Turn then to Rev. 3:10, 14:6-12, 17:12 to see that test repeated globally.
The Sabbath commandment does not preclude, or exclude, the "work" that Jesus and His Father do, even upon Sabbath, since that which they do is "holy" work and not common, or profane, labour. The Sabbath commandment even makes the distinction in it between "keep(ing) holy" (holy work) and not doing non holy "work" or "labour".
Jesus showed that healing and restoration of mankind in health is keeping holy the Sabbath day, and is not a violation of it's precept. Matthew 12:12.
Only the commandment breaking pharisees were uncomfortable with these truths, though they claim, as many do today, that they honour God in the Sabbath by their vain traditions and actual transgression of it. (Hint:. That is not myself, but rather pertinent to your own position).
Scripture records Jesus arising on "the first (day) of the week", and nowhere records "eighth day" for that resurrection in the NT. You simply placedh your own theological term into scripture and then made it sound as if it were scripture. You were not quoting scripture, you were quoting 'you'.
Exo 16:4: "Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no."
Exodus 16:4 along with Exodus 5 & 20:8-12, and Exodus 16:28, and morwp, show that the 7th day, the Sabbath of the LORD, was known long before then (see Abraham, Noah, Adam at least).
Exo 16:28: "And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?"
God asked, "How long ..."; think about that in the context of Exodus 16.
Then consider that Exodus 16:4 is not God merely testing "unfaithfulness", but rather for both faith and unbelief, proving that Sabbath sign and test is about faith. Turn to 1 Cor. 10 and see that how God interacted with they in the wilderness of sin, is how God tests us upon whom the ends of the world have come. Turn then to Rev. 3:10, 14:6-12, 17:12 to see that test repeated globally.
The Sabbath commandment does not preclude, or exclude, the "work" that Jesus and His Father do, even upon Sabbath, since that which they do is "holy" work and not common, or profane, labour. The Sabbath commandment even makes the distinction in it between "keep(ing) holy" (holy work) and not doing non holy "work" or "labour".
Jesus showed that healing and restoration of mankind in health is keeping holy the Sabbath day, and is not a violation of it's precept. Matthew 12:12.
Only the commandment breaking pharisees were uncomfortable with these truths, though they claim, as many do today, that they honour God in the Sabbath by their vain traditions and actual transgression of it. (Hint:. That is not myself, but rather pertinent to your own position).
I have an entire study on the errors of the so called 'lunar sabbatarians", even from rabbinical sources as needful, like from Babylonian Talmud, Mishna, haggadah and others.
The Sabbath commandment itself (Exodus 20:8-11) is not calculated from, nor find it's root in, moons. It is rooted in God, the very light of Genesis 1. The Sabbath commandment encompasses all 7 days of the week, which included the 4th day in which the moon was made. The Sabbath is in calculated beginning with the fourth day in which the moon was created, but from God in day 1.
The seventh day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God existed (even as Hebrews says, "from the foundation of the world") before there ever existed a Levite or Levitical calendar.
The Sabbath commandment itself (Exodus 20:8-11) is not calculated from, nor find it's root in, moons. It is rooted in God, the very light of Genesis 1. The Sabbath commandment encompasses all 7 days of the week, which included the 4th day in which the moon was made. The Sabbath is in calculated beginning with the fourth day in which the moon was created, but from God in day 1.
The seventh day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God existed (even as Hebrews says, "from the foundation of the world") before there ever existed a Levite or Levitical calendar.
Simply making up your own mathematical tests founded in your a priori belief system, doesn't mean that test or mathematics is representative of truth.
The 7 branch candlestick is called "seven" for a reason. The only "eighth" in Revelation is the final Babylonian tyranny of the revived Papacy in union with her daughters and governments.
Yes, Jesus stands in the midst of the 7 churches. Are you suggesting there are not 7, but 8 churches? The same basic question goes for the rest of your a priori proofs.
The 7 branch candlestick is called "seven" for a reason. The only "eighth" in Revelation is the final Babylonian tyranny of the revived Papacy in union with her daughters and governments.
Yes, Jesus stands in the midst of the 7 churches. Are you suggesting there are not 7, but 8 churches? The same basic question goes for the rest of your a priori proofs.