The lie that we are sinless if we are saved

[SophieT]

AKA Sinless Perfectionism

Seems pretty straight forward

1 John 1:7-10 “but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”

further, those who believe a person can achieve a sinless state, also believe that you loose your salvation if you should sin (although if you are in a perfect state how would that happen )

so there are two things to deal with when looking at this sinless state some believe possible

the idea of sinlessness itself and the question regarding a person loosing salvation if they sin

another term for this concept of sinlessness is "Holiness Theology'

thoughts?

 

[CherieR]

I don't believe in sinless perfectionism teaching.

Jesus paid the price for all our sins. Receiving and believing on Jesus doesn't make someone perfect in all their actions. Sin does not separate a Christian from God or his love.

 

[studentoftheword]

All Saved people will still sin once in a while -----God in His Grace does not Charge the sin they commit to them --the Blood Jesus shed covers their sins and God remembers their sins no more -----

So does mean that the Saved Person can just sin all they want to -------NO ----The Saved person will want to please God and will try to stay out of sin as much as possible -----when we sin as a Born Again person we grieve the Holy Spirit ----and a true Saved person will not want to Grieve the Holy Spirit or displease God ---and when a saved person does Miss the Mark ---they are convicted by the Holy Spirit ----they will feel guilty and ashamed ----so they need to confess the sin out loud and forgive themselves as God forgives them so they can get right back on the right track to grow in their Faith and submit themselves to God's word and resist the temptation of the devil to fall into sin -----

The New Covenant of Grace Does Not give The Believer a free reign to sin ------the Believer will not want to sin ----their Agape for God will put the breaks on sinning ---but we are still in the flesh and that has to be worked on by us as we mature in our Walk with Christ----As we mature we will sin less but we will never be perfectly sinless when we walk in the flesh ------


Does God really forget our sins?
https://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-forget.html

There are several passages in the Bible that indicate that God forgives and forgets our sin. Isaiah 43:25 says, “I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.” Hebrews 10 explains how Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross for sin was a once-and-for-all sacrifice. Unlike the sacrificial system of the Old Testament, in which sacrifices were continually made for sin, Jesus paid for sin once. His payment was complete. Hebrews 10:14–18 says, “For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: ‘This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.’ Then he adds: ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.”

These passages make it evident that God does not remember our sins. However, God’s “not remembering” is not what we usually think of as forgetfulness. God is omniscient. He knows everything, and He forgets nothing. However, He can choose not to remember something. In human relationships,

Rather than treating us as our sins deserve, God removes our sins from us “as far as the east is from the west”—an immeasurable distance (Psalm 103:12).

Jesus made a one-time sacrifice that completely removes our sin. In Christ, we are justified (declared righteous) before God. Romans 8:1 tells us there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Romans 8:31–39 is a beautiful discourse on our security in Christ. Sin has no say in our standing with God. We are fully accepted and declared righteous in Him. God does not remember our sins in the way He treats us. Instead, He treats us as righteous. Second Corinthians 5:21 says, “God made him who had no sin [Jesus] to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” In this way, God “forgets” our sins

Even as Christians, we sin, but we know that God is faithful to forgive (1 John 1:9). God cleanses, and then He moves on. He does not hold our sins over us. Instead, He frees us from the slavery of sin and sets us free to experience a new life. Knowing the complete forgiveness of God in Christ, we can join King Hezekiah in praising our Redeemer: “You have put all my sins behind your back” (Isaiah 38:17). Like Paul, we can forget what is behind and “press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called [us] heavenward in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 3:13).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

AKA Sinless Perfectionism

Seems pretty straight forward

1 John 1:7-10 “but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”

further, those who believe a person can achieve a sinless state, also believe that you loose your salvation if you should sin (although if you are in a perfect state how would that happen )

so there are two things to deal with when looking at this sinless state some believe possible

the idea of sinlessness itself and the question regarding a person loosing salvation if they sin

another term for this concept of sinlessness is "Holiness Theology'

thoughts?

I believe we should turn our hearts against sin knowing it’s not of God . So that when we have done wrong somehow and realize it we will repent and confess and be forgiven and cleansed from all its effects

and because of that we can have remission of our sins so it’s like we haven’t sinned after we have dealt with it

we shouldn’t have an attitude “ sin doesn’t matter “ but should always know “ Gods grace is available if i press on in faith he will forgive me as I forgive others

 

[Runningman]

AKA Sinless Perfectionism

Seems pretty straight forward

1 John 1:7-10 “but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”

further, those who believe a person can achieve a sinless state, also believe that you loose your salvation if you should sin (although if you are in a perfect state how would that happen )

so there are two things to deal with when looking at this sinless state some believe possible

the idea of sinlessness itself and the question regarding a person loosing salvation if they sin

another term for this concept of sinlessness is "Holiness Theology'

thoughts?

I agree with you, but at the same time I know God expects us to give it a pretty good effort to not sin. That's basically the New Testament in a nutshell: believe in Christ and don't sin anymore, but if you do then confess those sins to God.

 

[RichMan]

I believe we should turn our hearts against sin knowing it’s not of God . So that when we have done wrong somehow and realize it we will repent and confess and be forgiven and cleansed from all its effects

and because of that we can have remission of our sins so it’s like we haven’t sinned after we have dealt with it

we shouldn’t have an attitude “ sin doesn’t matter “ but should always know “ Gods grace is available if i press on in faith he will forgive me as I forgive others

I have never met a believer that had the attitude that "sin does not matter."
Do not understand why some keep bringing this up.
At the same time I will say that anyone who states he does not sin is a liar and is calling God a liar.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have never met a believer that had the attitude that "sin does not matter."
Do not understand why some keep bringing this up.
At the same time I will say that anyone who states he does not sin is a liar and is calling God a liar.

I sure have met them brother im related to a couple

 

[RichMan]

I sure have met them brother im related to a couple

I sure have met them brother im related
to a couple

Then I would be worried that they are just as lost as those who believe they do not sin.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Then I would be worried that they are just as lost as those who believe they do not sin.

yeah I don’t judge people I just always annoy them with scripture that stings a little to them and discuss belief with them and pray for them hoping they repent and are saved

not my job to worry but trust the gospel and hope they belong to God

 

[John146]

AKA Sinless Perfectionism

Seems pretty straight forward

1 John 1:7-10 “but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”

further, those who believe a person can achieve a sinless state, also believe that you loose your salvation if you should sin (although if you are in a perfect state how would that happen )

so there are two things to deal with when looking at this sinless state some believe possible

the idea of sinlessness itself and the question regarding a person loosing salvation if they sin

another term for this concept of sinlessness is "Holiness Theology'

thoughts?

Do you have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ? Did Christ sin? Are you in Christ? If so, then you are sinless, now and forever.

 

[SophieT]

Do you have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ? Did Christ sin? Are you in Christ? If so, then you are sinless, now and forever.

this isn't about imputed righteousness

I might be able to tell you a thing or two about it

maybe slow down and read what it is really about

sinless perfectionism....not imputed righteousness

 

[SophieT]

I agree with you, but at the same time I know God expects us to give it a pretty good effort to not sin. That's basically the New Testament in a nutshell: believe in Christ and don't sin anymore, but if you do then confess those sins to God.

I don't believe the NT message is about not sinning. it is about far far far more than that

can anyone stop sinning in their own flesh or does something happen when we accept Christ?

 

[SophieT]

I believe we should turn our hearts against sin knowing it’s not of God . So that when we have done wrong somehow and realize it we will repent and confess and be forgiven and cleansed from all its effects

and because of that we can have remission of our sins so it’s like we haven’t sinned after we have dealt with it

we shouldn’t have an attitude “ sin doesn’t matter “ but should always know “ Gods grace is available if i press on in faith he will forgive me as I forgive others

right

but the op is about sinless perfectionism...a specific topic

it is not about our personal walk...sinless perfectionism....yes? no?

 

[SophieT]

someone already sourced 'Got Questions'...not my favorite site, but they do break things down in a simple way and I use them myself from time to time

Sinless Perfectionism:

Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.


The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfect should be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”

As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?

True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.

 

[Runningman]

I don't believe the NT message is about not sinning. it is about far far far more than that

can anyone stop sinning in their own flesh or does something happen when we accept Christ?

Well, it isn't about continuing in sin either. So what's it about?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

A lie? Wonder why you want it to be a lie.

Repeated sin corrupts your Reborn Image because you fell for satan's comforting lie that it would still be covered. Seriously, how do you think you are Holy when you doing something in the beast's image? You can't be on The Plan of SALVATION unless you are in the Right Image.

i think the issue is that people don't realize they have to uphold It ...you can't just tell yourself "...oh, JESUS will cover my repeated sins". Because you wouldn't be in His Image anymore. And if you are not using His Image ...you are not using His Blood.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

The Plan of SALVATION is for you to be in The Image of The Last Adam on The Cross!!!

 

[Nehemiah6]

so there are two things to deal with when looking at this sinless state some believe possible... the idea of sinlessness itself and the question regarding a person loosing salvation if they sin

It is really quite amazing to see so much confusion about salvation. Yes, there are some who delude themselves into believing that sinless perfection is attainable in this life, while others believe that salvation can be lost. Both are errors. So we need to see what the Bible says:

1. Even after someone is saved, the old sin nature -- "the flesh" -- is not eradicated. Therefore there is a conflict between the flesh and the Spirit: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth [conflicts] against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Gal 5:16,17)

2. Christians who deny that they sin deceive themselves and make God a liar: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

3. Christians are commanded to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11,12)

As we can see those who are saved do have the imputed righteousness of Christ, but because of the flesh they can fall into sin. Therefore they must examine themselves, confess their sins, and repent. But the constant goal of every believer must be righteousness and holiness.

Salvation is the gift of eternal life after God justifies a sinner by His grace. Therefore salvation can never be lost. If a Christian persists in sinning there are other remedies which God applies.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

It is really quite amazing to see so much confusion about salvation. Yes, there are some who delude themselves into believing that sinless perfection is attainable in this life, while others believe that salvation can be lost. Both are errors. So we need to see what the Bible says:

1. Even after someone is saved, the old sin nature -- "the flesh" -- is not eradicated. Therefore there is a conflict between the flesh and the Spirit: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth [conflicts] against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Gal 5:16,17)

2. Christians who deny that they sin deceive themselves and make God a liar: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

3. Christians are commanded to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11,12)

As we can see those who are saved do have the imputed righteousness of Christ, but because of the flesh they can fall into sin. Therefore they must examine themselves, confess their sins, and repent. But the constant goal of every believer must be righteousness and holiness.

Salvation is the gift of eternal life after God justifies a sinner by His grace. Therefore salvation can never be lost. If a Christian persists in sinning there are other remedies which God applies.

SALVATION can't be lost ...the question is if you ever had it in the first place.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

JESUS Lived His whole Life Sinless ...i've only been doing it for a year or so ...through Him!

Do you use the same excuse over and over again right before you sin? You gave into your animal side ...the beast.

Do you say, "oh, i have cherry picked Scripture, that i misinterpret, that says i can sin."?

Who do you think you are fooling?

You are either a Pillar of GOD'S Kingdom or you sin with self-idolatry for satan's kingdom (worldly babylon).

You are not a Child of GOD if you are sinning. HOLY SPIRIT Oil can't be in a corrupted Temple.

With JESUS as The Head of The Body of CHRIST, we use Him as a periscope to see beyond the veil of death (satan's kingdom / worldly babylon / self-idolatry).

You have no idea what i'm talking about when you have sin in your life. You eat from the wrong tree and blinded yourself.

Children of GOD can perceive The Narrow Path of SALVATION (The Kingdom of GOD / Tree of LIFE).

You pretend to be a Child ...when you are a tare. You can only handle the literal because GOD isn't Reading It to you. You are stuck on your animal side.

The whole reason this place exists if for GOD to find people His Presence can be around ...do you really think you have anything to do with that?

We are Reborn into The Body of CHRIST ...The Kingdom. What part of that statement sounds like sin is allowed?

What do you think satan is tempting you with? Obviously it is to fall out of The Holy Body ...to ruin your Image ...with some horns.

Does anyone get what it takes to actually hold The Reborn Image that SAVES?

How can JESUS Represent you on The Cross unless you have His Image (Blood)?

Do you want GOD to know you at Judgment or not?

The Garden is the mind ...temptation happens there. GOD Breathed an Image into Adam (us as a baby). sin ruins it, we need The Reborn Image CHRIST Made for us to pass this test.