You are still a slave to sin if you are still doing them. JESUS Gifted us The Way to Overcome!

[Runningman]

What I think is this.

1. There are still controversies about what this thorn in the flesh is. But for me knowing who Paul is from his epistles, I doubt if it means moral frailty.

2. At the time Paul was being converted, the Lord told Ananias and I quote, "Go your way for he is a chosen vessel unto me to bear my name before the Gentiles and Kings and the children of Israel. For I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake" Acts 9:15 -16) So, I subscribe to the school of thought that believes it relates to the enormous afflictions lined up for him on the way of his Ministry. These infirmities as he called them, he highlighted in 2Corinthians 11:23 -33. Amidst these, he stated in verse 30 that if he must glory, he will glory in things concerning his infirmities. This was before the chapter you quoted.

3. When Paul petitioned the Lord and the Lord told him that HIS grace is sufficient for him, for His strength is made perfect in weakness, he rejoiced because he knew the grace will always be there to empower and strengthen him to overcome. Therefore, he says, I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in persecutions in distresses, for Christs sake , for when I am weak, then am I strong.

4. So, I see no paradoxes there. And, it has nothing to do with his personal character or conduct. This I believe and my take on it.

That makes sense if Paul has no weaknesses, which he does and admits to elsewhere like Romans 7. When Paul says he has "infirmities" it means moral weaknesses. It's used in a similar way in Hebrews 4:15 which clears up the way the word "infirmities" can be used contextually in regards to temptation and sin.

Hebrews 4:15 KJV
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[Blain]

I have asked you, brother, twice if you are viewing sin from a tower - as a watchman - or from the gate - as a prophet.

Now I am asking a third time, brother.

You have essentially said you are seeing sin in the life of believers from the Scripture. You dare not make a claim to being either a watchman or a prophet - rather you set your meaning into the sense of the prophetic word of God being taught and administered in the Spirit.



You make a doctrine of increasing apostasy - a growing cold by continuous habitual sin in the face of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and lay down this claim (doctrine) to a believer walling themselves up until their conscience is seared - their faith shipwrecked - and their eventual eternal separation from God. All being presumptuous sin in face of the flesh waring against the Holy Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh in order that believers may not do that which we would do naturally in the flesh - and so do presumptuously.

This doctrine or teaching you qualify without a name - so you give it a name and call it blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - or its equivalent meaning - seeing as those to whom this blasphemy was first cited were some men of the pharisees who were jealous (as Pilate even knew when his motive for desiring to release Jesus as King of the Jews - back to Israel - knew - yet Jesus called it a blasphemy of the Holy Spirit before hand.

You say that this presumptuous sin is to grow cold and then you cite the book of Revelation and warn that this presumptuous sinning is akin to the believers in the Laodicean church who became luke warm. So by direction the more stark they that grow cold. The graver the warning and the more fearful the outcome. You say all this in the name of Christ - and refuse compassion - preferring a stern warning which I ask do you shout from the tower or speak prophetically in the gate?

I don'y think he can answer your question perhaps he doesn't understand the nature of your question and akk you have said here is most likely well above his understanding either because he simply refuses to receive it or it simply is above his grasp for whatever reason either way for one reason or another I do not think you get an answer from him I asked him a question as well and I am waiting to see what he says I don't expect an answer but it a question that if he answers I would be interested to see what his answer would be assuming he doesn't avoid it.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I don'y think he can answer your question perhaps he doesn't understand the nature of your question and akk you have said here is most likely well above his understanding either because he simply refuses to receive it or it simply is above his grasp for whatever reason either way for one reason or another I do not think you get an answer from him I asked him a question as well and I am waiting to see what he says I don't expect an answer but it a question that if he answers I would be interested to see what his answer would be assuming he doesn't avoid it.

All I have done brother is to regurgitate his own doctrine as he has expressed severally - and yet clearly by asking about the watchtower and the gate I am asking in a meaning that cannot be easily discerned. One would hope that the Lord will provide the means to give the brother cause to address that meaning and then I would be obligated to answer it. That would be a far more profitable thing to bear with - both for myself and for him. I also placed one word that rebukes - that is the dividing of the veil - or its snare. Whether he opens the veil and chooses to see or escapes the snare will be a matter for him.

 

[Phoneman-777]

And yet for those of us who are osas who do not use it as a license to sin we are grouped together for the people who do. As far as whether osas is true or not whether one can lose their salvation or not honestly to me it isn't hard to understand we were purchased by God with his sons death we are not our own our salvation was not by our own doing we are slaves to Christs the deed of our souls are not in our hands but in his.

Unless of course you think different, otherwise can a one who is purchased make a claim for themselves? can a slave be their own master? do you think we can just snatch the deed from God's hands? So tell me did he purchase us with his sons death or not? are we slaves to Christ like Paul or not? does he own the deed to our souls or not? are we our own or not and was our salvation our own doing or not? and if you agree to even one of these things then by all means explain how one can somehow lose what isn't theirs to lose.

The prob with OSAS is not limited to just being a License to Sin, whether it stays in your wallet or not.

While nothing can snatch us from the hand of God, the saint himself can leap from it, according to numerous verses like Matthew 24:12-13KJV and Matthew 18:23-35KJV - which, by its very name, OSAS denies.

 

[Magenta]

People who constantly resist the Holy Spirit in unbelief will eventually burn out their conscience,
quench the Spirit, and forever be lost, guilty of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit".

Paul says he was a blasphemer...

 

[SophieT]

I don'y think he can answer your question perhaps he doesn't understand the nature of your question and akk you have said here is most likely well above his understanding either because he simply refuses to receive it or it simply is above his grasp for whatever reason either way for one reason or another I do not think you get an answer from him I asked him a question as well and I am waiting to see what he says I don't expect an answer but it a question that if he answers I would be interested to see what his answer would be assuming he doesn't avoid it.

not going to answer/cannot answer

these folks do not believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit

Rhomphaeam's response is above his paygrade

but the question is legitimate

 

[SophieT]

The prob with OSAS is not limited to just being a License to Sin, whether it stays in your wallet or not.

While nothing can snatch us from the hand of God, the saint himself can leap from it, according to numerous verses like Matthew 24:12-13KJV and Matthew 18:23-35KJV - which, by its very name, OSAS denies.

I must have missed where you magically turned this sin thread into a rant against OSAS

that's a lame horse, a lame duck and a crippled old dinosaur

you are fishing in a pond where all the fish have floated to the top and yet the smell does not bother you

only the sin champions in this thread have floated OSAS (to best of my knowledge)

you are grasping at straws ... anything really, to continue to kick the empty can down the road

you should put your flag on the tower down to half mast

 

[SophieT]

Let's be clear: the passage does not explicitly limit the definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to "attributing divine power to demonic agency" - that's a popular but erroneous implied conclusion, which people everywhere swallow hook, line, and sinker.

False attribution is merely the symptom -- the disease is "an attitude of persistent unbelief" which was pandemic among the Jews, for a surety.

People are actually expected to believe this ridiculous idea that a sinner who at some point in his life stubbornly attributed divine power to demonic agencies - but later came to Jesus in repentance seeking forgiveness - is beyond His hand of mercy, even though He promised that any who come to Him, He "will in no wise cast out".

People who constantly resist the Holy Spirit in unbelief will eventually burn out their conscience, quench the Spirit, and forever be lost, guilty of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit".

yes. please do be clear

what Bible are you using? the fudge-it Bible for people with an agenda?

the passage could not be any clearer, but I guess your eyesight is failing from your tower miles away from reality

I actually think Jesus is referring to the religious who think they know all about God and tsk tsk everyone else when He talks about blasphemy.

I can understand why you might overlook that

 

[Phoneman-777]

Don't speak as if you know their hearts, you make the presumption that they use the license to sin when for all you know you may very well be wrong but your so stuck in your way of thinking with no evidence at all to support it either.

Tell me what makes you so certain of your stance what amkes you so sure about this?

What’s the test God gave us to determine whether we or others actually know Jesus or not?

Keeping His commandments.

OSAS adherents cannot but dismiss the test results as “irrelevant”. What other reason is there to do that than the desire to pull out that License to Sin?

 

[Blain]

not going to answer/cannot answer

these folks do not believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit

Rhomphaeam's response is above his paygrade

but the question is legitimate

There you go with your presumptous assertions again what do you mean these people don't believe in the gifts of the holy spirit and by what proof do you make such claims? Also when you say these people who are you speaking about?

 

[Blain]

What’s the test God gave us to determine whether we or others actually know Jesus or not?

Keeping His commandments.

OSAS adherents cannot but dismiss the test results as “irrelevant”. What other reason is there to do that than the desire to pull out that License to Sin?

And yet keeping the commandments wasn't enough otherwise Christ wouldn't have needed to die for us would he? so are you saying our salvation is our own doing then by keeping the commanments?

 

[SophieT]

There you go with your presumptous assertions again what do you mean these people don't believe in the gifts of the holy spirit and by what proof do you make such claims? Also when you say these people who are you speaking about?

there I go again?

LOL!

 

[Evmur]

amen brother I never have doubted that about you can tell from reading your posts where you stand

I agree with what you had said I was just adding to it .

this part

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:2-3, 6-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is not where one begins it’s the result of what you began saying because as you know it’s also a process Christ called any and all by sending out the gospel to all People

those who reject his calling and those who receive his calling with joy and peace in our hearts is the difference

we do have a choice that it’s capacity grows each day we have been made free now and can choose the good Christ has given us a choice in choosing us so we then have a choice between spirit and flesh as free men

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭

we are free to use the linerty we have been given to serve God or serve the flesh it becomes a choice once one receives the spirit we can heed and follow or reject and stifle our own growth and destroy our own soul.


“Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
…For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:11, 15-16‬ ‭

I believe we’re meant to be growing and following after these perfect things in our life though we will never actually attain perfection we always will
Have another step to take

It doesn’t matter how far we actually get what matters is we begin to recognize satans voice and Gods voice both are calling us as we recognize who’s who believers are going to choose the right path we become followers of the lord

Great ... I would only say we have been set free to use the liberty we have been given to serve God but not the flesh, we may well use the liberty to serve the flesh but it will bring consequences. We are agreed

 

[Evmur]

The OP is not on the question of how? but on the necessity for believers to stop sinning. If we restrict our discussions on the OP, the disagreement would lessen.

How is important, folks do not know how to stop sinning.

 

[Evmur]

Your problem is that you think that "come to Him by faith" is a one night stand instead of a marriage...that we can abide in the Vine this week, then hang out at Satan's holly tree down the street next week.

Good gravy, man, what part of "surrender" does the OSAS crowd not get? You give up your right to govern yourself, and submit yourself to the authority of another, according to Luke 6:46 KJV. That's why 1 John 2:3-4 KJV says those who claim to be saved but are breaking the Ten Commandments are going to be lost, no matter how much they wave their arms in church.

No, no YOU think coming to Him is a one night stand, we do not think so.
Not only do you not understand what happened at the cross you also do not understand the new birth whereby we are made new creations, we are not the same. Old things for us have passed away behold all things have become new.

This is done by God's miraculous power in our hearts, this can happen to you today as you sit at your computer. Come God's way.

You are like Naaman of old, he BELIEVED the testimony of the little maid and he came to church but he didn't like the message, "go wash in Jordan and thou shalt be clean" God's miraculous power. But Naaman turned away in a rage "are not human endeavour and human achievement better rivers to wash in than the dirty river of God? may I not wash in them and be clean?"

Abana and Pharpar the rivers of Syria means human endeavour and human achievement.

But the Holy Spirit sent the christians after Naaman "my father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then when he says only to thee wash and be clean?"

Come God's way.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Paul says he was a blasphemer...

"Repentant" blasphemer

However, "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is a persistent course of impenitent resistance to the Holy Spirit....which is why it's the "unpardonable sin" ---- we can't receive pardon if we refuse to ask for pardon

 

[Phoneman-777]

I must have missed where you magically turned this sin thread into a rant against OSAS

I didn't. I merely responded to something a person said that the OSAS crowd didn't like, I guess.

 

[SophieT]

I didn't. I merely responded to something a person said that the OSAS crowd didn't like, I guess.

where are they?

I haven't seen them in this thread yet

which post are you referring to?

 

[SophieT]

"Repentant" blasphemer

However, "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is a persistent course of impenitent resistance to the Holy Spirit....which is why it's the "unpardonable sin" ---- we can't receive pardon if we refuse to ask for pardon

there is resistance going on after all

you are resisting what Christ said to the Pharisees when they accused him of enacting the miracles He did by the power of satan

now that is a very direct response from Jesus to the religious spirits ... er Scribes and to create a backup plan, is of your own doing

 

[SophieT]

Your problem is that you think that "come to Him by faith" is a one night stand instead of a marriage...that we can abide in the Vine this week, then hang out at Satan's holly tree down the street next week.

Good gravy, man, what part of "surrender" does the OSAS crowd not get? You give up your right to govern yourself, and submit yourself to the authority of another, according to Luke 6:46 KJV. That's why 1 John 2:3-4 KJV says those who claim to be saved but are breaking the Ten Commandments are going to be lost, no matter how much they wave their arms in church.

I know this was not directed to me, but anyway

your problem is that you seek to insult people rather than discuss or disagree and discuss

you are comparing a Christians long term relationship with his Lord as though he thought he was paying a prostitute for benefits

you know, I am willing to guess that most Christians would not even think of that comparison, so where is your mind at?

you know that hell you don't believe is real? I would suggest you might be playing close to the edge here with your false accusations and sinful comparisons