what are your thoughts of Apostle Kathryn Krick

[Lafftur]

Here is the issue, guarding one's heart and saying Christians can be demon-possessed are two different things. IF Jesus is one's Lord and Savior the devil cannot possess them. We can be ATTACKED, tempted, and oppressed. The OSAS group will say they were never saved. I am not here to debate that.

Others will say they lost their salvation. I am not here to debate that either. The point I will say is they cannot be saved and be demon-possessed. So meaning :

1. they were never Christians never saved, to begin with.
2. apostate and renounced Jesus and are no longer saved.


BUT one cannot be saved and have a demon. Jesus said in context to demon possession :

Matthew chapter 12.


22Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

25But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

Then Jesus said about unclean spirits in the same chapter :


43“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”


This ties into the "Sower "Matthew 13 the next chapter who went out to sow the seeds and the person who was set free should have allowed the Holy Spirit to take up residency but did not. They were not Filled with the Spirit unto salvation just like the seed that did not make into Good Ground for many reasons.

One can make a profession but God knows the heart just like HE knew Ananias and Sapphires. the book of Acts doesn't say they were saved. it says they held back what they promised to give, which means they held back their hearts.

Now what Jesus said:

• the house was empty
• the seed (word of God)was not believed and fully received
• one can fool man, but NOT God. Jesus knew Judas was a devil before he called him.

Also, Jesus healed many who were possessed and had serious diseases and many did not even come back to thank him. Remember the 10 lepers? how many came back? How about those who shouted Hosanna and the same ones shouting Crucify HIM! God knows who is and has the Spirit and life and Ligh doesn't share with darkness. Ever.

If Jesus Christ does not have my WHOLE HEART, then my heart can become defiled with unforgiveness, bitterness, resentment, covetousness, jealousy, etc…

A defiled heart is the devil’s playground. It’s our heart where demons dwell in us if we let our hearts become defiled.

No wonder Jesus Christ was so adamant about us NEVER losing our First Love for Him. Our heart is to be His Throne, it is NOT to be defiled.

 

[CS1]

If Jesus Christ does not have my WHOLE HEART, then my heart can become defiled with unforgiveness, bitterness, resentment, covetousness, jealousy, etc…

A defiled heart is the devil’s playground. It’s our heart where demons dwell in us if we let our hearts become defiled.

No wonder Jesus Christ was so adamant about us NEVER losing our First Love for Him. Our heart is to be His Throne, it is NOT to be defiled.

FYI that can happen however that is your heart, not a demon. IF the devil is the reason for all sin then we should not have to stand in Judgement before the Lord right? a demon doesn't dwell in hearts they dwell in the mind which controls the flesh. and that is not the same as a Christian who has Jesus in their hearts. Sometimes I think we make a demon greater than our Lord who saved us.

Jude 1:24
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

 

[Lafftur]

FYI that can happen however that is your heart, not a demon. IF the devil is the reason for all sin then we should not have to stand in Judgement before the Lord right? a demon doesn't dwell in hearts they dwell in the mind which controls the flesh. and that is not the same as a Christian who has Jesus in their hearts. Sometimes I think we make a demon greater than our Lord who saved us.

Jude 1:24
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

Peter asked Ananias why has Satan filled your HEART…?

Peter did not say “mind”…..

I believe a demon can dwell in a Believer’s heart IF the Believer has allowed their heart to be defiled with unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, etc…

A defiled heart is an open door to the enemy.

Jesus Christ truly needs to always be our First Love.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

You are thinking of Bethel. Do any of the Bethel leaders think of themselves as part of the 'New Apostolic Reformation', either the organization or the movement?

So if we simply rationalise a distinction in organisational (civil) administrations then we refuse the effect of the spiritual ambitions that are set in the men (in your comment - Wagner and Johnson), and how that effect permeates into the churches across entire regions of the world. You are simply upholding the effect. That is to your account. Yet you feel able to imply that one who expresses a clear distress at these abominations is mistaken. Very convincing, brother.

 

[presidente]

So if we simply rationalise a distinction in organisational (civil) administrations then we refuse the effect of the spiritual ambitions that are set in the men who (in your comment - Wagner and Johnson), and how that effect permeates into the churches across entire regions of the world. You are simply upholding the effect. That is to your account. Yet you feel able to imply that one who expresses a clear distress at these abominations is mistaken. Very convincing, brother.

Distress in abominations? Since I disagree with some points of doctrine, I am more inclined to think of these as brothers with a misunderstanding of doctrine than 'abominations.' The doctrinal issues I (and others) have concerns with are not all the same.

Again, do they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, that He rose from the dead? Have they experienced repentance, faith in His name?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Distress in abominations? Since I disagree with some points of doctrine, I am more inclined to think of these as brothers with a misunderstanding of doctrine than 'abominations.' The doctrinal issues I (and others) have concerns with are not all the same.

Again, do they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, that He rose from the dead? Have they experienced repentance, faith in His name?

You must think of them as you must. And bear witness of them as you intend. What has that got to do with whether their practises and influences are an abomination?

 

[Gardenias]

Mt.7:11-14
If ye then,being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children,how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ASK him?
Therefore All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
ENTER ye in at the STRAIT gate: for WIDE is the gate,and BROAD is the way,that leadeth to DESTRUCTION and MANY there be which go in thereat:
Because STRAIT is the gates, and NARROW is the way,which leadeth unto life and few there be that find it
We ALl make this choice daily the path we walk. Will we choose the broad way or the narrow way?
The way of God is SET before us in his word,there is NO other way to enter.

The two ways are set,it is either one or the other. Shall we follow the wide path where upon are MANY that seek soothing words for their itching ears, with heresies, false doctrine and prophets and SO many people going therein?
Shall we CHOOSE the narrow path that has less travelers that have the directions of the path God has laid for us?

It is YOUR choice, which way will you go, life and death are before you........choose!

 

[presidente]

You must think of them as you must. And bear witness of them as you intend. What has that got to do with whether their practises and influences are an abomination?

I do not see in scripture where God considers every bit of doctrinal misunderstanding to be disgusting. I do not see where He sees every doctrine or understanding that someone else holds to that you are I disagree with to be disgusting either.

There are certain things the Bible does teach us are disgusting to God, and certain things it says to His people that they are to be disgusting to them.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I do not see in scripture where God considers every bit of doctrinal misunderstanding to be disgusting. I do not see where He sees every doctrine or understanding that someone else holds to that you are I disagree with to be disgusting either.

There are certain things the Bible does teach us are disgusting to God, and certain things it says to His people that they are to be disgusting to them.

Thats just dandy then isn't it, brother. No one is disgusting - be that the one who corrupts sound doctrine for gain and profit nor the one who holds it to be an abomination. Just dandy. This thread is about an abomination - it isn't about something that is disgusting. I can eat disgusting if I am hungry - but I would rather die of hunger if I am asked to eat an abomination.

 

[presidente]

Thats just dandy then isn't it, brother. No one is disgusting - be that the one who corrupts sound doctrine for gain and profit nor the one who holds it to be an abomination. Just dandy. This thread is about an abomination - it isn't about something that is disgusting. I can eat disgusting if I am hungry - but I would rather die of hunger if I am asked to eat an abomination.

Look up what the word translation abomination means-- offensive, repulsive, disgusting.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Look up what the word translation abomination means-- offensive, repulsive, disgusting.

Really? Try using a Calvinist dictionary. Abomination - a feeling of hatred.

Jacob have I loved. Esau have I hated.

I used the term abomination and you changed its meaning. You'll just have to live with it. Ok sunbeam!

 

[presidente]

Really? Try using a Calvinist dictionary. Abomination - a feeling of hatred.

Jacob have I loved. Esau have I hated.

I used the term abomination and you changed its meaning. You'll just have to live with it. Ok sunbeam!

That sounds like it is along the lines of what I said, a description of the same range of meaning. I'd have to compare meanings of Greek with Hebrew, too. 'Abomination' is such an obscure word, a lot of people do not know what it means, even people who use it. It is like 'blasphemy' in that regard. But I thought you would pick up on the fact that I was saying the same thing with a different English word when I posted.

This is not my favorite translation, but I looked something up quick to find a version that used 'disgusting'. This is a verse on an unpleasant topic. https://www.bible.com/bible/392/LEV.18.22.CEV

 

[Rhomphaeam]

That sounds like it is along the lines of what I said, a description of the same range of meaning. I'd have to compare meanings of Greek with Hebrew, too. 'Abomination' is such an obscure word, a lot of people do not know what it means, even people who use it. It is like 'blasphemy' in that regard.

I believe that Calvin was interested in giving its meaning from God's perspective and not how things seem from mens perspective. And that is how I used it myself. If not then I am guilty of expressing a personal view when I say something is an abomination. I don't care for a flowery use of language when the matter is as grave as a woman being a spearhead for revival set in place by a man who is an outright blshpehmer who has made the Gospel a means to commodities of people and a source for gain and profit. So perhaps you ought to have looked at the video and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You did extend your meaning before hand when you cited a seeming acceptance of the woman in the video - that is to say before you redirected what I said and my use of the term abomination - and so your own use of the terms offensive, repulsive, and disgusting were your own perspective and not God's. It is rather like saying that the fearful wrath of God is anger. Men can be angry but must sin not - God can be angry and He extends his wrath in judgement. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I will repay. I am not arguing with you - as I said previously @#306 "You must think of them as you must. And bear witness of them as you intend. What has that got to do with whether their practises and influences are an abomination?" What I won't yield to is having a prophetic meaning changed to meet a fleshy decency or timidity or else niceness. Rather the way @Lafftur endlessly does when she overlooks appalling blasphemy and still stands with the effect. You'll just have to ignore me.

 

[CS1]

Oh my, now the thread is becoming Calvinist Thread.

 

[CS1]

Peter asked Ananias why has Satan filled your HEART…?

Peter did not say “mind”…..

I believe a demon can dwell in a Believer’s heart IF the Believer has allowed their heart to be defiled with unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, etc…

A defiled heart is an open door to the enemy.

Jesus Christ truly needs to always be our First Love.

Jesus did not say HE would fail those who are saved either. The devil is greater or Greater is HE who is IN you than he that is in the world? No weapon formed against me shall prosper. When the Comforter comes HE will be with you and IN YOU. The word of God regardless of what you believe says nothing of a demon in the heart of the Believer who is saved and filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Oh my, now the thread is becoming Calvinist Thread.

You bibber of diverse aspirations.

I
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
“Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!” he said.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

II
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Alfred, Lord Tennyson

How sneaky must he sneaky be
Who calls the storm by pride?
How sweetly must he sweetly be,
When all his horses bridled?

Rhomaphaeam, The Calvinist

 

[SophieT]

Distress in abominations? Since I disagree with some points of doctrine, I am more inclined to think of these as brothers with a misunderstanding of doctrine than 'abominations.' The doctrinal issues I (and others) have concerns with are not all the same.

Again, do they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, that He rose from the dead? Have they experienced repentance, faith in His name?

that is not the question

why do you avoid the question and throw a red herring into the ring?

frankly I doubt some of these people practicing occultic machinations are quote unquote saved

you think practicing regression is biblical?

how about grave sucking?

how about people with their personal angels who fraternize with them ? have you got yours?

feathers and gold teeth? collect some while they are available

smoke machines? sure. goes right along with the screeching lead singer...in this case Johnson's daughter in law. she sounds like a bellowing cow

the farce of Todd Bentley wherein the leaders of NAR all got together and 'anointed' him and then he trotted off, committed adultery and kicked a man with cancer in the stomach (the man later died from his cancer after Bentley told him he was healed)

how about IHOP? not the one of pancake fame

you brought up NAR, not me and I don't know why you did because what CS1 asked had nothing to do with NAR
'
you think you know something...and by the way, the biblical question regarding spirits is not are they saved, but if they admit Jesus Christ as Lord. your home test does not pass the test

 

[SophieT]

I do not see in scripture where God considers every bit of doctrinal misunderstanding to be disgusting. I do not see where He sees every doctrine or understanding that someone else holds to that you are I disagree with to be disgusting either.

There are certain things the Bible does teach us are disgusting to God, and certain things it says to His people that they are to be disgusting to them.

practicing divination was a death sentence in the OT

God has not changed His mind. He offers salvation through the blood of Christ and it seems many profess salvation that is not salvation

the fact that demons are rampaging around the earth and many are susceptible is also doctrine

the Bible does have certain doctrines that a person would be wise not to trample on

 

[SophieT]

Oh my, now the thread is becoming Calvinist Thread.

well jumping all over is normal here, right?

someone introduced NAR...another wants to sing praises to the false apostle Miss Kate....another thinks we should judge nothing and as usual I just wish people would stay on point

c'est la vie ici

 

[presidente]

You did extend your meaning before hand when you cited a seeming acceptance of the woman in the video - that is to say before you redirected what I said and my use of the term abomination - and so your own use of the terms offensive, repulsive, and disgusting were your own perspective and not God's.

This is my perspective after reading translations and looking up the word translated 'abomination' in the Old Testament. I have not looked up the LXX translation of the term to see how it was rendered into the Greek. There is no intent on my part to change anything. I have no reason to think the word 'abomination' is an inspired translation. The average person on the street, probably the average English-speaking Christian, probably just thinks it is something bad, maybe really really bad. It's an obscure word. Many people don't know 'blasphemy' either, and some Christians think dying in unbelief is a form of 'blasphemy' when you could actually die, theoretically without speaking, writing, or communicating. This is religious terminology a lot of religious people do not know. They know 'disgusting' or 'repulsive.' They know 'hate' a word you yourself used. Is your using another word in the 'thought map' there adding something?

It is rather like saying that the fearful wrath of God is anger. Men can be angry but must sin not - God can be angry and He extends his wrath in judgement.

I've seen one translation use wrath, and another use anger. 'Wrath' is another one of those words. If the Greek or Hebrew words have a sense of something beyond just anger, that needs to be explained for the average person to get it. Your comment there does not quite explain why anger doesn't fit as a translation.

What I won't yield to is having a prophetic meaning changed to meet a fleshy decency or timidity or else niceness.

'Disgusting' isn't nice at all. Telling someone male-on-male sex is disgusting (or repulsive) to God and that God told His people it was to be disgusting to them conveys meaning. It conveys meaning to the minds of most fluent English-speakers. 'Abomination' conveys--'that sounds really bad, but I don't know what that means. Maybe I'll look it up in the dictionary some time when I am not too busy. That's one of those religious words."