Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Moses was resurrected...y'know, when Michael was disputing the devil over the body of Moses, and the Lord told Satan to shut up?

If they're fighting over the body, and then Moses shows up years later, it's safe to assume God raised him from the dead.
What! That contradicts Solomon and jJob…
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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If you wanna ignore Solomon and Job and believe a Satanic witch has power over one of God's champions of the faith, you have every right to...but no reason to.
The Lord was in it. The witch was deceived. Was Samuel speaking the truth? Absolutely! Yet you called it a demon.

12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
 
Feb 7, 2022
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God used this witch to bring up Samuel to warn Saul. God can do that you know.
1Chr 10:13: "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;"

You just implicated that God used forbidden and sinful practices, that God Himself forbid.

Exo 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Deu 18:10: "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,"

1Sam 15:23: "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."

Gal 5:20: "Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,"

Etc.

1Sam 28:6: "And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets."

God refused to answer by the right conduits, what makes you think God used the witch?

Saul knew God wasn't talking to him anymore. He didn't seek God:

1Sam 28:7: "Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor."

Lev 19:31: "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

You are greatly self deceived.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Do you not understand that Isaiah says we must compare "line upon line" and "precept upon precept"? Any clue what that means?
that's so you can fall backward and be broken, snared, and caught.

finish reading the verse:

But the word of the LORD was to them,
“Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,”
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and caught.

(Isaiah 28:13)


 
Feb 7, 2022
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that's so you can fall backward and be broken, snared, and caught.

finish reading the verse:

But the word of the LORD was to them,
“Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,”
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and caught.
(Isaiah 28:13)
Try reading Isaiah 28:10-12. They are broken, etc, because they rejected how God gave them the word line upon line. In that was rest, but they (like yourself) refuse to hear.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
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1Chr 10:13: "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;"

You just implicated that God used forbidden and sinful practices, that God Himself forbid.

Exo 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Deu 18:10: "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,"

1Sam 15:23: "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."

Gal 5:20: "Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,"

Etc.

1Sam 28:6: "And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets."

God refused to answer by the right conduits, what makes you think God used the witch?

Saul knew God wasn't talking to him anymore. He didn't seek God:

1Sam 28:7: "Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor."

Lev 19:31: "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

You are greatly self deceived.
Thank you for your opinion…I’ll stick with the clear reading of scripture. If the inspired scripture says Samuel, then it’s Samuel.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
1Chr 10:13: "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;"

You just implicated that God used forbidden and sinful practices, that God Himself forbid.

Exo 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Deu 18:10: "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,"

1Sam 15:23: "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king."

Gal 5:20: "Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,"

Etc.

1Sam 28:6: "And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets."

God refused to answer by the right conduits, what makes you think God used the witch?

Saul knew God wasn't talking to him anymore. He didn't seek God:

1Sam 28:7: "Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor."

Lev 19:31: "Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

You are greatly self deceived.
Obviously, Saul was in the wrong not God.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,833
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Try reading Isaiah 28:10-12. They are broken, etc, because they rejected how God gave them the word line upon line. In that was rest, but they (like yourself) refuse to hear.
"rest" is one word, not line upon line.

I think you do not understand what is being said here in Isaiah, and you need to do a little bit of reconciliation between some scriptures..

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this:
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
 

Duckybill

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2021
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I am saying you are blaspheming. Let me guide you through the logic.

Blasphemy 1 - Speaking against the Most High
You are saying God is a Torturer. In the absence of any logical reason for a hell, you are making the most vile assertions to the Character of God. Do you have any logical reason a hell should exist? Then why are ascribing the Most High such a vile character.

Blasphemy 2 - Speaking against the Scriptures (unforgivable sin)
You did not conform Rev 20:14 to your single hell assertion. Does that mean that you are denying the veracity of this single verse? If so, consider Rev 22:18-19,
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

If not, your hell declaration has been tested and found to be wanting. Since you harp your vitriol day in and day out, consider Matt 7:15-23 "....Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ "

When you worship this fantastical hell that obeys no logical rules, consider Isaiah 8:19-22 "... And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness." Your are shirking the light of joy for the darkness of hell. Stop teaching.

Blasphemy 3 - Calling Jesus a liar
Once again Rev 20:14, conform it or you are saying the Book of Revelation is of no effect. Consider Rev 1:1-2
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
If your reverence of the 2 witnesses so limited by your hellmongering, should you not give up hell? Glory to Jesus, the Father of Eternity not some pagan notion that fulfills the darkest desires of the human mind.

Galatians 5:22-23 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
Not hell is a consequence. Only from the sociopathic mindset does one come to this notion.

As per this OP, repent while you still can, the Great White Throne is not a good place to have second thoughts.
I don't know how to repent for believing what Jesus said. Please quote my "blasphemy".

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Obviously, Saul was in the wrong not God.
It wasn't by the witches power but God's that Samuel was sent.
Everything in the text calls him Samuel and the witches shock and change of attitude confirms it.
It is only that some people are unwilling to believe what's written, and awe. It is certainly an amazing thing, but none of God's word should be rejected on the basis that it amazes us!
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
Peter (along with the other 120 or so) at Pentecost (10 days after Jesus ascended from Olivet), under full influence and inspiration of the Holy Ghost, having come straight down from heaven, said:

Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."

Acts 2:34: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,"

Paul, later likewise said:

Acts 13:36: "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:"
Acts 2
29 “My brothers, I can tell you for sure about David, our great ancestor. He died, was buried(Past tense), and his tomb is still here with us today. 30 He was a prophet and knew something that God had said. God had promised David that someone from his own family would sit on David’s throne as king. 31 David knew this before it happened. That is why he said this about that future king:

‘He was not left in the place of death.
His body did not rot in the grave.’

David was talking about the Messiah rising from death. 32 So Jesus is the one God raised from death. We are all witnesses of this. We saw him. 33 Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Now he is with God, at God’s right side. The Father has given the Holy Spirit to him, as he promised. So Jesus has now poured out that Spirit. This is what you see and hear. 34 David was not the one who was lifted up to heaven. David himself said,

‘The Lord God said to my Lord:
Sit at my right side,
35 until I put your enemies under your power.[e]’

36 “So, all the people of Israel should know this for certain: God has made Jesus to be Lord and Messiah. He is the man you nailed to the cross!”
Acts 13:36
Easy-to-Read Version
36 “David did God’s will during the time he lived. Then he died and was buried(also Past tense) like all his ancestors. And his body did rot in the grave!

Neither of your proof texts Brother, friend proves David was still in the grave after Jesus ascended.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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The weakness of your Bible interpretation regarding the definition of death is:

1. The Bible doesn’t seem to clearly use your definition of death anywhere.

2. You’re using a figurative or non-literal hermeneutic to interpret death where it isn’t clear that a non-literal definition is superior to the plain text of the scripture. I.e., God says the soul that sins will die, you’re saying the soul that sins lives forever. (Genesis 2:17, Ezekiel 18:20, etc)

3. You seem you apply subjective criteria to define death as not literally death, but do not use the same standard regarding other topics. I.e., death isn’t death, but eternal life is eternal life, forgiveness is forgiveness, sin is sin, etc.

4. Eternal conscious torment isn’t clearly stated anywhere in scripture.

All of that being said, you seem to be preaching a very common, yet false, doctrine that is running rampant through the Catholic and Protestant church.
James 2:26 clearly defines death as seperation of body and soul, spirit not ceasign to exist.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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Did Peter, James, and John see Moses? Didn’t Moses die? How many more examples do you need?

There are statements in the Bible that are general in nature, not fixed. It is appointed unto man once to die…have men died twice? Will there be those who are alive and remain when the Lord returns? Exceptions only prove the rule.
Exceptions does not prove a rule.