The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[FreeGrace2]

Passing from death to life is resurrection.

Does EVERYONE who rises from the dead receive a glorified body?

Why or why not?

 

[Beckie]

Great question. I read Rev 20 very carefully and know that there will be a literal 1,000 year Millennial reign by the King of kings, at the end of which, will be the final battle of Gog and Magog, since Satan will be loosened at the end to deceive the nations again. Every unbleliever will be killed. And then raised to life to attend the GWT judgment. After which they all will be cast into the LoF. So ends the Millennial reign on the present earth. Ch 21 opens with the present heaven and earth "passing away" and there will be a new heaven and earth. This would be what is called the eternal state. iow, your Timex won't work. Time won't exist.

Speaking of the Millennium, who do you think populates the earth during that time?

I will ask: Jesus said the resurrection is the LAST DAY. How are the years counted to make the 1000 if there are no more days ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

The devil and futurists hate it when you quote Jesus , thats why its so much fun!

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; (Stop add 1,000 years here )and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Still trying to prove that the Bible is internally contradicted, I see. I know that many try to pervert the Word of God . They are called perverts.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

OK, so far, so good. 1 for the saved and 1 for the unsaved. But...are they at the same time?

Let's see what the Bible says, which clarifies what Jesus said in John 5.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

OK. That's ONE. Now, wonder when the NEXT ONE (for the unsaved) will be?

Since the gathering at the GWT isn't until the Millennium is over (read Rev 20, all of it), it is clear that the resurrection of the unsaved will occur to gather all the unsaved for the GWT.

If both resurrections occur at the same time, then Rev 20 cannot be true.

Why don't you have an answer about why the LoF is also called the "second death"?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I will ask: Jesus said the resurrection is the LAST DAY. How are the years counted to make the 1000 if there are no more days ?

I don't agree with much of what TDW posts, but in 3,697 he said this:
"[IN] the LAST DAY" does not refer to "in the last 24-hr day"

"The Last Day" IS the Millennium (the 7th and LAST"

I have previously explained that regarding the resurrection of the saved, which is "when he comes", or the Second Advent; the 'last day' would refer to the last day of natural life. Because at that time, since all believers will have glorified bodies (supernatural), life will be supernatural for the duration of the Millennium. Of course, not for the surviving unbelievers from the Trib, however they will have to contend with the glorified believers, who will be serving Christ and/or reigning with Him.

And all this makes sense. Nothing else does.

 

[Hitch]

I asked:
"Do you know WHY
Of course they are.


It seems you have completely gone off the cliff now. Can you show me where I have tried to "add resurrections"?

Or "time"?

How come you don't know why the LoF is also called the "second death"?

You've gone septic:


None of your citations will exist for decades.
Why do you believe that the Bible will not exist forever? What's wrong with you?

You 're too idiotic but some reader might grasp that when Jesus spoke not one word of the NT had been written. That includes all you citations. they didnt exist at the time and would not for decades .


Ok moron;
Now what are you trying to say? If you can't show me the "terms" I've used that have been "re-defined", you are just blowing smoke.

Your claim to take Jesus at His word is false, you dont believe him when He says the resurrection will come at the lasy day . Lie about all you want doesnt change anything.

 

[Hitch]

I asked:
"Do you know WHY the LoF is also called the "second death"?"

OK, so you don't know trhe answer, since you didn't answer.


What is your problem? I've dones so several times already. Are you having difficulty concentrating?

I have repeatedly SAID that everyone should take Jesus' words at face value.

I think you should stop embarrassing yourself by this really childish question, since it has been answered.


Why do you believe that the Bible will not exist forever? What's wrong with you?


Now what are you trying to say? If you can't show me the "terms" I've used that have been "re-defined", you are just blowing smoke.


You should stop making all these empty charges.


What in the world are you now talking about? I'm discussing END TIMES, whether you are conscious of that or not. And the whole counsel of God WAS completed by 95 AD. So your comment shows extreme ignorance.


So you seem to be saying that what I cite from Scripture is "very weak". Why do you have such a low opinion of Scripture?


Of course they are.


It seems you have completely gone off the cliff now. Can you show me where I have tried to "add resurrections"?

Or "time"?

How come you don't know why the LoF is also called the "second death"?

Along with citing Scripture that didnt exist at the time
What in the world are you now talking about? I'm discussing END TIMES, whether you are conscious of that or not. And the whole counsel of God WAS completed by 95 AD. So your comment shows extreme ignorance.

LOL OK Moron do you have some notion of when Jesus lived and died? Tell us all how much of the NT had been written before ad 35 .

Your increasing shrillness is just more evidence of a sick mind. I doubt you will overcome it .

 

[Runningman]

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So the Millennium is really 365,000 years. LOL

Key word is “with the Lord” not “with the human race.” To people a millennium is 1,000 years with approximately 365,000 days. To God one day is 1,000 years long.

 

[Beckie]

I don't agree with much of what TDW posts, but in 3,697 he said this:
"[IN] the LAST DAY" does not refer to "in the last 24-hr day"

"The Last Day" IS the Millennium (the 7th and LAST"

I have previously explained that regarding the resurrection of the saved, which is "when he comes", or the Second Advent; the 'last day' would refer to the last day of natural life. Because at that time, since all believers will have glorified bodies (supernatural), life will be supernatural for the duration of the Millennium. Of course, not for the surviving unbelievers from the Trib, however they will have to contend with the glorified believers, who will be serving Christ and/or reigning with Him.

And all this makes sense. Nothing else does.

Well good for TDW , Again i ask what did Jesus say?

 

[Hitch]

Still trying to prove that the Bible is internally contradicted, I see. I know that many try to pervert the Word of God . They are called perverts.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

OK, so far, so good. 1 for the saved and 1 for the unsaved. But...are they at the same time?

Let's see what the Bible says, which clarifies what Jesus said in John 5.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

OK. That's ONE. Now, wonder when the NEXT ONE (for the unsaved) will be?

Since the gathering at the GWT isn't until the Millennium is over (read Rev 20, all of it), it is clear that the resurrection of the unsaved will occur to gather all the unsaved for the GWT.

If both resurrections occur at the same time, then Rev 20 cannot be true.

Why don't you have an answer about why the LoF is also called the "second death"?

Well moron Jesus says the righteous will be raised on the last day , only pervert would say the unrighteous are raised on the last day.

 

[Hitch]

Key word is “with the Lord” not “with the human race.” To people a millennium is 1,000 years with approximately 365,000 days. To God one day is 1,000 years long.

Check the quote ,that door swings both ways

 

[Hitch]

Still trying to prove that the Bible is internally contradicted, I see. I know that many try to pervert the Word of God . They are called perverts.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

OK, so far, so good. 1 for the saved and 1 for the unsaved. But...are they at the same time?

Let's see what the Bible says, which clarifies what Jesus said in John 5.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

OK. That's ONE. Now, wonder when the NEXT ONE (for the unsaved) will be?

Since the gathering at the GWT isn't until the Millennium is over (read Rev 20, all of it), it is clear that the resurrection of the unsaved will occur to gather all the unsaved for the GWT.

If both resurrections occur at the same time, then Rev 20 cannot be true.

Why don't you have an answer about why the LoF is also called the "second death"?

Rev 20 is true you are overflowing with excrement. And you will so long as you ignore what Jesus said.

 

[Hitch]

Still trying to prove that the Bible is internally contradicted, I see. I know that many try to pervert the Word of God . They are called perverts.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

OK, so far, so good. 1 for the saved and 1 for the unsaved. But...are they at the same time?

Let's see what the Bible says, which clarifies what Jesus said in John 5.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

OK. That's ONE. Now, wonder when the NEXT ONE (for the unsaved) will be?

Since the gathering at the GWT isn't until the Millennium is over (read Rev 20, all of it), it is clear that the resurrection of the unsaved will occur to gather all the unsaved for the GWT.

If both resurrections occur at the same time, then Rev 20 cannot be true.

Why don't you have an answer about why the LoF is also called the "second death"?

Let's see what the Bible says, which clarifies what Jesus said in John 5.

Lets do moron;


4 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


It should be plain that as this is ongoing the frame of reference is spiritual . You are even stupid enough to think this is physical resurrection ,are you ?

Now you are stupid enough to miss the tense so Ill repeat it :

but is passed from death unto life.

Just another of Jesus saying you dont like too bad.

Now your perverted mind wont capture the reality but there are always those others so ;

This passing from death unto life, is how eternal life is gained. It brings the believer into the royal priesthood and is his protection from the 'Second Death' . It also causes him to reign in life through Jesus Christ. Now since you're too dim I'll type real slow ,,,, any clear mind , not you, can see these are the blessings from R 20. Like it or not pervert.

 

[Absolutely]

You / Abs responded with:


As I've answered you before:
in the text which states, "and THEY KNEW NOT until the flood came and TOOK THEM all away,"
the "THEY / THEM" refers to the LOST / UNSAVED who are the only ones who "KNEW NOT UNTIL"

Noah and crew certainly DID "KNOW" ahead... Noah "prepared the ark" for YEARS prior... was "a preacher of righteousness" (who was the INSTRUMENT that Jesus, by means of the Spirit, went and "preached to the spirits of those [now] in prison," who in the days of Noah disobeyed / disregarded the word of God VIA NOAH--the POINT of Jesus' comparison with those in the future specific time-period, in His Olivet Discourse), thus they "perished in the flood" (and who are the "THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL" ones)... but Noah was told even more specifically the closer they got to the approaching "flood judgment" to board the ark, "for in YET SEVEN DAYS...," so they boarded the ark because they WERE INFORMED and believed and did what he was told... Noah and crew were NOT the ones about whom was said, "and THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL" (thus also are not the ones about whom that sentence finishes with: "and TOOK THEM ALL AWAY"... that is, IN JUDGMENT... they "perished in the flood");

This is Jesus speaking of what will occur at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (Rev19 / Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:[9,]12-13, etc... and the passage from which the disciples BASED the question of Him in Matthew 24:3, that is: Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 re: "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]" when the ANGELS will "REAP")... NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot, which Jesus is NOWHERE covering the Subject of, in His Olivet Discourse;

In the case of the FUTURE, to which Jesus is comparing this / these... it will be the "ANGELS / REAPERS" who will be told to "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (so the "TOOK them all away" unto JUDGMENT certainly "fits" the scene of His Second Coming to the earth--I've already gone over the definition of that word, SHOWING that it can be used in both to positive and to negative ends, depending on WHO is DOING the "TOOK / TAKING" and to what PURPOSE)

You seem to be forgetting my posts about what Paul wrote, addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (US):

"...THAT whether we may WATCH *OR* whether we may SLEEP [SAME TWO Greek words used a few verses earlier in verse 6--SAME CONTEXT and MEANING i.e. does NOT mean "sleep in death"], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" - 1Th5:10 [see also v.6]

That's who the text itself states was (and thus, will be concerning those in the "future" at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19 [NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot]).



At the time of Jesus' Second Coming TO THE EARTH (Rev19), the "still-living SAINTS" (and YES there WILL BE those; per Dan12:12 and about 8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this SAME issue!) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children (the only ones who will have that capacity--as will their children, grandchildren born in the MK age); Scripture shows repeatedly that NO "UNSAVED / UNBELIEVERs" [still-living] persons will ENTER the MK age (tho certainly those later BORN to them aren't "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS"), ONLY the ones "BELIEVING" will be permitted to ENTER the MK age... and they (as "saints" / "the righteous" / "believing" persons) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (just as in Noah's day: COMPARE Dan2:35c with Gen9:1 and those with these passages such as Matt24 and Lk17... and where in Lk17's "and DESTROYED them ALL" is NOT what takes place at the time of "our Rapture" for those UNSAVED persons "left behind"--No. Many of them will be coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... when they are IN the Trib yrs).


Again, your "Partial Rapture Theory" is incorrect, and is rooted in a mis-application of a number of passages which aren't covering the Subject of "our Rapture" (at the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had NOT YET spoken to them about that Subject, but ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHY Millennial Kingdom age, and the specific, LIMITED time-period that will precede and LEAD UP TO that point / His "RETURN" to the earth (compare Matt24:42-51 with its parallel Luke 12:36-37,38,39,40,42-44,45-48, where that text states, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the MEAL [G347; used also in Matt8:11 and its parallel, speaking of the EARTHLY MK age / "BLESSED"]);

Your CONFLATING this issue MARS the picture (regarding what actually takes place at the time of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]").






Certainly you do not believe that, at the time of the FLOOD judgment, when "8 souls were saved," that this was a "50 / 50" occurrence, so that (according to the math) it was equally "8 souls who perished in the flood,"... do you?? I find that notion to be rather implausible.

1) i already debunked the postribber talking point where it is erroneously declared by them " the wicked are ALWAYS gathered first"
So nothing there.
2) i never made any connection to a "50-50 dynamic" in noah.
Jesus made it one sentence later. With the "0ne taken-left"
So that wont go away.
3) there is no way that is pointing to the second coming on horses
The setting is shifted by Jesus to pretrib. It is ridiculous to ascribe post flood to the picture Jesus painted.
IT MIRRORS THE PRETRIB RAPTURE.
BEFORE THE FLOOD ( not after) Noah gathered into the ark.
The door shut. JUDGEMENT BEGINS.
YOU and postribbers NEED THAT TO SAY THE OPPOSITE.
4) I kept waiting to see how you got a blood washed, born again believer in bed with a satan worshipper with the ac tattooed oh his forehead. How do you explain that one????
It is too far fetched, and you did not figure that and a ton of other stuff in.
5) i also kept thinking you would keep it in context as the following reads;
Mat 24
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

now, under your reframing of those verses, you now have Jesus telling one group to be ready to go to hell, and another to keep sleeping in a bed and grinding away at a mill.
It is plain bizarre that you are thinking Jesus is telling his people to be ready for a rapture of devil people , at thecsecond coming on horses, when in fact his saints are ALREADY IN HEAVEN at the time you are placing them on earth sleeping in a bed, and staying on the job ,grinding grain for the second coming.

""""44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."""

you saying that is not the rapture???
yes you are.
in fact you claim it can not be the rapture.y

 

[Hitch]

Still trying to prove that the Bible is internally contradicted, I see. I know that many try to pervert the Word of God . They are called perverts.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

OK, so far, so good. 1 for the saved and 1 for the unsaved. But...are they at the same time?

Let's see what the Bible says, which clarifies what Jesus said in John 5.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

OK. That's ONE. Now, wonder when the NEXT ONE (for the unsaved) will be?

Since the gathering at the GWT isn't until the Millennium is over (read Rev 20, all of it), it is clear that the resurrection of the unsaved will occur to gather all the unsaved for the GWT.

If both resurrections occur at the same time, then Rev 20 cannot be true.

Why don't you have an answer about why the LoF is also called the "second death"?

a resurrection of both

Moron

 

[Absolutely]

You / Abs responded with:


As I've answered you before:
in the text which states, "and THEY KNEW NOT until the flood came and TOOK THEM all away,"
the "THEY / THEM" refers to the LOST / UNSAVED who are the only ones who "KNEW NOT UNTIL"

Noah and crew certainly DID "KNOW" ahead... Noah "prepared the ark" for YEARS prior... was "a preacher of righteousness" (who was the INSTRUMENT that Jesus, by means of the Spirit, went and "preached to the spirits of those [now] in prison," who in the days of Noah disobeyed / disregarded the word of God VIA NOAH--the POINT of Jesus' comparison with those in the future specific time-period, in His Olivet Discourse), thus they "perished in the flood" (and who are the "THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL" ones)... but Noah was told even more specifically the closer they got to the approaching "flood judgment" to board the ark, "for in YET SEVEN DAYS...," so they boarded the ark because they WERE INFORMED and believed and did what he was told... Noah and crew were NOT the ones about whom was said, "and THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL" (thus also are not the ones about whom that sentence finishes with: "and TOOK THEM ALL AWAY"... that is, IN JUDGMENT... they "perished in the flood");

This is Jesus speaking of what will occur at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (Rev19 / Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:[9,]12-13, etc... and the passage from which the disciples BASED the question of Him in Matthew 24:3, that is: Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 re: "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]" when the ANGELS will "REAP")... NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot, which Jesus is NOWHERE covering the Subject of, in His Olivet Discourse;

In the case of the FUTURE, to which Jesus is comparing this / these... it will be the "ANGELS / REAPERS" who will be told to "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (so the "TOOK them all away" unto JUDGMENT certainly "fits" the scene of His Second Coming to the earth--I've already gone over the definition of that word, SHOWING that it can be used in both to positive and to negative ends, depending on WHO is DOING the "TOOK / TAKING" and to what PURPOSE)

You seem to be forgetting my posts about what Paul wrote, addressed to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (US):

"...THAT whether we may WATCH *OR* whether we may SLEEP [SAME TWO Greek words used a few verses earlier in verse 6--SAME CONTEXT and MEANING i.e. does NOT mean "sleep in death"], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" - 1Th5:10 [see also v.6]

That's who the text itself states was (and thus, will be concerning those in the "future" at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19 [NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot]).



At the time of Jesus' Second Coming TO THE EARTH (Rev19), the "still-living SAINTS" (and YES there WILL BE those; per Dan12:12 and about 8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this SAME issue!) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children (the only ones who will have that capacity--as will their children, grandchildren born in the MK age); Scripture shows repeatedly that NO "UNSAVED / UNBELIEVERs" [still-living] persons will ENTER the MK age (tho certainly those later BORN to them aren't "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS"), ONLY the ones "BELIEVING" will be permitted to ENTER the MK age... and they (as "saints" / "the righteous" / "believing" persons) will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (just as in Noah's day: COMPARE Dan2:35c with Gen9:1 and those with these passages such as Matt24 and Lk17... and where in Lk17's "and DESTROYED them ALL" is NOT what takes place at the time of "our Rapture" for those UNSAVED persons "left behind"--No. Many of them will be coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... when they are IN the Trib yrs).


Again, your "Partial Rapture Theory" is incorrect, and is rooted in a mis-application of a number of passages which aren't covering the Subject of "our Rapture" (at the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse, He had NOT YET spoken to them about that Subject, but ALL ABOUT His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHY Millennial Kingdom age, and the specific, LIMITED time-period that will precede and LEAD UP TO that point / His "RETURN" to the earth (compare Matt24:42-51 with its parallel Luke 12:36-37,38,39,40,42-44,45-48, where that text states, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the MEAL [G347; used also in Matt8:11 and its parallel, speaking of the EARTHLY MK age / "BLESSED"]);

Your CONFLATING this issue MARS the picture (regarding what actually takes place at the time of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]").






Certainly you do not believe that, at the time of the FLOOD judgment, when "8 souls were saved," that this was a "50 / 50" occurrence, so that (according to the math) it was equally "8 souls who perished in the flood,"... do you?? I find that notion to be rather implausible.

Where in all that did you prove the one taken is the wicked?

 

[ewq1938]

I will ask: Jesus said the resurrection is the LAST DAY. How are the years counted to make the 1000 if there are no more days ?

The resurrection is the last day of an age, not the last day ever else there could be no eternity. There is a first and last day of the age prior to the Millennium, a first and last day of the Millennium, and a first but no last day of the eternity.

 

[Beckie]

The resurrection is the last day of an age, not the last day ever else there could be no eternity. There is a first and last day of the age prior to the Millennium, a first and last day of the Millennium, and a first but no last day of the eternity.

So what is your scripture back up . The back up i will use are the literal words of Jesus He said last day. Your thoughts rea to me like you are adding to His words ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You've gone septic:

So you opine.

None of your citations will exist for decades.
Why do you believe that the Bible will not exist forever? What's wrong with you?

You 're too idiotic but some reader might grasp that when Jesus spoke not one word of the NT had been written. That includes all you citations. they didnt exist at the time and would not for decades .

It is your own thoughts that are too idiotic. But of course you won't understand that.

Ok moron;

A sure sign of a person bereft of mature thought is name calling. Way to go. Does it make you feel better or something?

Your claim to take Jesus at His word is false, you dont believe him when He says the resurrection will come at the lasy day . Lie about all you want doesnt change anything.

Only stupid people make these kind of claims when everyrthing I've posted is available for anyone who follows this thread.

Your claims are worse than false. And your childish name calling has exposed you for what you are.

 

[Hitch]

The resurrection is the last day of an age, not the last day ever else there could be no eternity. There is a first and last day of the age prior to the Millennium, a first and last day of the Millennium, and a first but no last day of the eternity.

Of course there is no last day of eternity .

 

[Hitch]

So you opine.


It is your own thoughts that are too idiotic. But of course you won't understand that.


A sure sign of a person bereft of mature thought is name calling. Way to go. Does it make you feel better or something?


Only stupid people make these kind of claims when everyrthing I've posted is available for anyone who follows this thread.

Your claims are worse than false. And your childish name calling has exposed you for what you are.

And I dont know of a single post in which you didnt try to poison the well . Disgusting .