Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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I havent cut anything off, I just havent taken the time to explain them to you. You already dont believe what I have explained.
I dont believe you do understand Gal 3:13. Those whom Christ died for were by that death redeemed from the curse of the law. They are dead to the law by the Body of Christ Rom 7:4 No condemnation, which equates to Justification. This had nothing to do with their Faith, but everything to do with Christs Faith/Faithfulness.
Follow the flow of the book!!
I can see you cant understand these matters. No one said anything about being godly before they believed.
a. Justified while ungodly OF NECESSITY equals Justification before faith
b. The unstated proposition, but which logically follows from your reasoning is that Ungodly people cannot believe. So only godly people can believe?
C. Then it follows logically that you are arguing for pre faith godliness.
@brightfame52 two questions on Romans 8:1
1. Who does Romans 8:1 say is free from all condemnation?
2. When does a person get in Christ?
1. Who does Romans 8:1 say is free from all condemnation?
2. When does a person get in Christ?
Justified before believing and why ?3
Why are all for whom Christ died Justified before God prior to their believing the Gospel ? Yes, Justified solely upon the merits of Christ death alone ! One of the reasons is because of the forgiveness of sins. All for whom He died are forgiven of their sins, purged away they have been.
Ps 65:3
Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.
Ps 79:9
Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
Christ is the answer to this Great Blessing of Salvation Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
You see that ? He Himself purged our sins, and afterward sat down on the Right Hand of God. This applies to everyone Christ died for, without them doing or believing a thing.
Now this word purged in Heb 1:3 is the greek word katharismos:
cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.
a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth
c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
In the Heb 1:3 verse it means c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
So this purging or purification made by Christ through His Blood is purged from the guilt and the penalty of our sins if He died for us.
Yes, Christ's Blood alone discharged us from Guilt and the Penalty of Sin.
In case we did not know, Salvation is freedom from the guilt of sin, at least an aspect of it. Our English word Salvation means:
the act of saving or protecting from harm, risk, loss, destruction, etc.
2.
the state of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.
3.
a source, cause, or means of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.
4.
Theology . deliverance from the power and penalty of sin; redemption.
And everyone Christ died for are delivered from the penalty of sin !
This purging from sin Heb 1:3 is a purging from the guilt and penalty of sin = Forgiveness through His Blood is another way of saying it or defining it Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This word forgiveness means:
forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
That's right, those who are forgiven of their sins, the penalty gone, then they stand before God as though they never sinned, because of Christ. They are guiltless and sinless before God's Law and Justice, and that constitutes Justification before God without them believing, but solely by Christ's Death alone !
The satisfaction that Christ's Blood provided to God's Law and Justice for the sins of those He died for, makes it as all of their sins, trespasses, offenses, iniquities, You name it, Christ's Blood makes it so they No Longer exist against God's Law, Justification !
Our English word Justification in theology means:
the act of God whereby humankind is made or accounted just, or free from guilt or penalty of sin.
However, all Human Kind is not Justified before God and free from guilt and penalty of sin. Many shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 !
7
Why are all for whom Christ died Justified before God prior to their believing the Gospel ? Yes, Justified solely upon the merits of Christ death alone ! One of the reasons is because of the forgiveness of sins. All for whom He died are forgiven of their sins, purged away they have been.
Ps 65:3
Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.
Ps 79:9
Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.
Christ is the answer to this Great Blessing of Salvation Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
You see that ? He Himself purged our sins, and afterward sat down on the Right Hand of God. This applies to everyone Christ died for, without them doing or believing a thing.
Now this word purged in Heb 1:3 is the greek word katharismos:
cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.
a cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing
a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals
b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth
c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
In the Heb 1:3 verse it means c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
So this purging or purification made by Christ through His Blood is purged from the guilt and the penalty of our sins if He died for us.
Yes, Christ's Blood alone discharged us from Guilt and the Penalty of Sin.
In case we did not know, Salvation is freedom from the guilt of sin, at least an aspect of it. Our English word Salvation means:
the act of saving or protecting from harm, risk, loss, destruction, etc.
2.
the state of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.
3.
a source, cause, or means of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.
4.
Theology . deliverance from the power and penalty of sin; redemption.
And everyone Christ died for are delivered from the penalty of sin !
This purging from sin Heb 1:3 is a purging from the guilt and penalty of sin = Forgiveness through His Blood is another way of saying it or defining it Eph 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This word forgiveness means:
forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
That's right, those who are forgiven of their sins, the penalty gone, then they stand before God as though they never sinned, because of Christ. They are guiltless and sinless before God's Law and Justice, and that constitutes Justification before God without them believing, but solely by Christ's Death alone !
The satisfaction that Christ's Blood provided to God's Law and Justice for the sins of those He died for, makes it as all of their sins, trespasses, offenses, iniquities, You name it, Christ's Blood makes it so they No Longer exist against God's Law, Justification !
Our English word Justification in theology means:
the act of God whereby humankind is made or accounted just, or free from guilt or penalty of sin.
However, all Human Kind is not Justified before God and free from guilt and penalty of sin. Many shall die in their sins Jn 8:24 !
7
And
You said they were justified while ungodly (true), so it must have been before they believed. Why does the fact that they were they were justified while ungodly necessarily mean they had not believed? God gives the gift of faith to the ungodly so that they might believe and through faith become godly.
You said they were justified while ungodly (true), so it must have been before they believed. Why does the fact that they were they were justified while ungodly necessarily mean they had not believed? God gives the gift of faith to the ungodly so that they might believe and through faith become godly.
I do believe that we are redeemed by Christ’s death. I do not believe your non sequitur that because we were redeemed by Christ’s death it necessarily follows that we were justified before we believed. In fact, the entire chapter three of Galatians is about being justified by faith, not by the Law.
I believe Galatians 3 from beginning to end (including verse 13). . You only believe in verse 13. What about verse 8 that says “and the scripture foreknowing that God would JUSTIFY the heathen THROUGH FAITH preached before the Gospel to Abram, saying in you shall all nations be blessed. Exegete that for me.
I know what I stated, however I never stated what you said, that one is godly before they believed. Thats misrepresentation and dishonest friend.
You tell me why you said “they were justified while they were ungodly, therefore it follows that they were justified before they believed? “. By what logic do you come to that conclusion?
I dont see how you can believe Gal 3:13 and then say a person Christ died for is lost ! And if you dont understand Gal 3:13 you dont understand the entire chapter.
If I’m being dishonest, prove it. Here’s your chance.
You tell me why you said “they were justified while they were ungodly, therefore it follows that they were justified before they believed? “. By what logic do you come to that conclusion?
You tell me why you said “they were justified while they were ungodly, therefore it follows that they were justified before they believed? “. By what logic do you come to that conclusion?
If a person was redeemed by Christs death, then they were forgiven, Justified , saved from the curse of the law before they believed and while ungodly.