One taken,one left. The rapture.

[DavidTree]

I'm not denying that God's wrath over-arches all others (of that eschatological time-period being referenced) that will also be involved (i.e. like "the devil/Satan... having great wrath because..."), similarly to how God used the "Chaldeans / Babylonians" (Hab1:6,12) "O LORD, thou hast ordained them [the Chaldeans / Babylonians] FOR / TO EXECUTE judgment; and O mighty God, thou hast established them [the Chaldeans / Babylonians] FOR correction"; So when we trace out all the passages of Scripture that connect with the Revelation passages, we can see where "wrath" is indeed being referenced (though not necessarily spelled out as such in various Rev verses). Only by DIVORCING these things which are connected, can one come to the conclusion (commonly and mistakenly said), "well, Revelation isn't calling 'such-and-such' GOD'S wrath..." that one can come to the conclusions you are putting forth here (as though God's "wrath" is not at back of it)

Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.
12Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea!
For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Choose your wrath

I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and [g]behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [h]moon became like blood. 13And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

 

[DavidTree]

That's fine. As one of the few pastors who opened his church against the lockdown order, he's always my hero.

When I was first saved i enjoyed listening to McArthur.

i still pray for John

 

[Nehemiah6]

“Secret rapture” IS the “tide”. It’s been mainstream interpretation of eschatology since Darby and Scofield invented it.

Well since it was the Lord Jesus Christ who first presented the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, there is no need to give anyone else the credit. People love dumping on Darby and Scofield, but they were simply bringing out what was already in Scripture, and even some of the Early Church Fathers had seen this. And amazingly even Jesuit Francisco Ribera was able to discern this! He also invalidated the nonsense that the papacy is the Antichrist.

Now why does the Rapture have to be "secret" as relates to the unbelieving world?
1. The Resurrection/Rapture is for the Church, not for the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked.
2. Christ said that He would come "like a thief in the night" -- unannounced and unexpected.
3. Christ will come "in the air" momentarily, since the Resurrection/Rapture is "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye".
4. Since the world does not believe in the Rapture, the world is excluded from even seeing it.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Well since it was the Lord Jesus Christ who first presented the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, there is no need to give anyone else the credit. People love dumping on Darby and Scofield, but they were simply bringing out what was already in Scripture, and even some of the Early Church Fathers had seen this. And amazingly even Jesuit Francisco Ribera was able to discern this! He also invalidated the nonsense that the papacy is the Antichrist.

Now why does the Rapture have to be "secret" as relates to the unbelieving world?
1. The Resurrection/Rapture is for the Church, not for the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked.
2. Christ said that He would come "like a thief in the night" -- unannounced and unexpected.
3. Christ will come "in the air" momentarily, since the Resurrection/Rapture is "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye".
4. Since the world does not believe in the Rapture, the world is excluded from even seeing it.

Nope, when he returns, all the world will see. He comes surprisingly "like a thief in the night" because you fools are all following those false prophets and looking for him in the desert or in secret closets.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

because you fools are all following those false prophets and looking for him in the desert or in secret closets.

Why would we be doing that when Scripture clearly states we'll be caught up TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR where He'll BE at the time (and there is no requirement at all to be "LOOKING")

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why would we be doing that when Scripture clearly states we'll be caught up TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR where He'll BE at the time (and there is no requirement at all to be "LOOKING")

Come on, that is the Lord descending in the air, not us! “This same Jesus ... will so come in like manner as you saw him go into heaven.”

 

[Jocund]

Christ who first presented the Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Which passage are you interpreting this to be out of?

 

[Absolutely]

Rrdrdddddrrrrrrdrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdrrrrrrdrrrdddddrdrdrdrdrdrrrrrdrrrrrdrdrdrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

What in the world???
I must have had my phone on in my pocket.

Lol

 

[Absolutely]

If it’s pre-trib then it must be secret, otherwise it ain’t gonna be secret. All those “bizarre accusations” come from you pre-trib cowards, not anybody else, so why don’t you drop the act and quit playing innocent.

Show me where anyone but postribs is selling that.

You cant.

 

[Absolutely]

Why would we be doing that when Scripture clearly states we'll be caught up TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR where He'll BE at the time (and there is no requirement at all to be "LOOKING")

Yep.
Elijah seen
Enoch seen
The baby Jesus seen
The 2 witnesses seen
1 thes 4 is open, seen, and not secret.

Postribs even get that wrong.

 

[Absolutely]

Nope, when he returns, all the world will see. He comes surprisingly "like a thief in the night" because you fools are all following those false prophets and looking for him in the desert or in secret closets.

Postribbers selling it.
Nobody else.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Show me where anyone but postribs is selling that.

You cant.

Uh ... like, every pastor in America? All have drunken the same Kool Aid in their seminary?

All the churches i have been to as well as main stream USA Christianity will tell you (non-stop 24/7) get ready for the rapture = any day now.

Try and show them the Word of Truth and they will shout you down and show you the door.

John McArthur says some real perverse and corrupt things against Scripture to make sure it is pre-trib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

Interesting postribber dilemma, is that in the coming on white horses,it is a local event.

The rapture is world wide.
Hence ;
"2 in a bed, one taken.... ( at night).
2 at a mill, working, one taken.... (during daytime)

Postrib dilemma.
Rev 19, saints are already in heaven on white horses during the trib

 

[Absolutely]

Uh ... like, every pastor in America? All have drunken the same Kool Aid in their seminary?

Pretribber here.
It is your camp that parks there for no reason.
It is your invention ,most likely, since you guys do not bring anything to the table pointing to a postrib rapture.
So " secret rapture", that does not exist in any outlines here, except yours, helps authenticate the pretrib rapture ,since your "side show" has no impact or meaning.

It is you presenting it over and over.

You are batting the air everytime you do it.

 

[Absolutely]

“Secret rapture” IS the “tide”. It’s been mainstream interpretation of eschatology since Darby and Scofield invented it.

Ok we get it.

Your pet doctrine is secret rapture.

We get it.!
Now make a sentence leaving that out.
Start contributing instead of attacking.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Ok we get it.

Your pet doctrine is secret rapture.

We get it.!
Now make a sentence leaving that out.
Start contributing instead of attacking.

Drop the Alinsky act, man. That's you pretribber's pet doctrine. Take the mud for yourself, don't throw it at me.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yep.
Elijah seen
Enoch seen

The baby Jesus seen

The 2 witnesses seen
1 thes 4 is open, seen, and not secret.

Postribs even get that wrong.

Well, I wasn't actually speaking to THAT point (and as you may recall, as I've said in the past, I do not believe "our Rapture" will necessarily be a "VISIBLE" event [at least not to EVERYONE], but will more resemble the "pattern" I had pointed out... but I won't go into all that AGAIN here).

I will say (again), though, that Paul (in his TWO CHPTS of 2Th1 & 2) is telling of the TWO opposite "beliefs" people WILL be coming to (FOLLOWING "our Rapture"), when they are IN THE TRIB YEARS.

2Th2:10-12 tells of ONE of those two [opposite] "beliefs" people will be coming to in those years FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (when they are IN THE TRIB YEARS),

... and the reasonable thing (as I see it) for us to conclude about how they can even "believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" (aside from the fact that "GOD SHALL SEND TO THEM strong delusion SO THAT..."), yet others will be coming to the OPPOSITE (i.e. TRUE / RIGHT / CORRECT) "belief," is because (at the very LEAST) the ones to whom "God SHALL SEND TO THEM strong delusion SO THAT..." will NOT have "visibly SEEN" anyone having just been "raptured [/caught up / snatched]" when it will have [already] occurred (just like Jesus' FIRST ascension ON His RESURRECTION DAY / ON "FIRSTFRUIT" Lev23:10-12 [which NO ONE SAW, but only "TOLD" (by WORD)]--some "40 DAYS" prior to His later "VISIBLE ascension in Acts 1),

...thus (their NOT having "SEEN" it / "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]") they will find it EASY and REASONABLE / SENSIBLE to "believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI," which I've stated before will very likely be based on "religious people's explanation [tho being themselves "unsaved / lost" persons or else they would have been "caught up" too]" of what just happened, and even using the texts of Scripture [misapplied and incorrectly used] to "show [/ prove to]" ppl just "how RIGHT they are" (about it)... but will be completely playing into "the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI"

The baby Jesus seen

Wait a second. You mean, you believe "baby Jesus" was RAPTURED / CAUGHT UP / SNATCHED [IN THE AIR], and that other people "SAW" this HAPPEN??

Where in Scripture do you find THIS thing occurring? To be straight-up honest with you, I do not see Scripture telling of such a thing. = )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Enoch seen

And to be honest, I'm not seeing that in the text either. It just doesn't make sense for the text to say (in the BOLD):

"5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death: “ He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. "

... if it were the case that he was "SEEN" being taken up.

Nowhere does any text state that he WAS seen by others, at [/during] that point.




"By faith Enoch was translated not to see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him up. For before the translation, he was commended to have pleased God. "



[I *do* see "ENOCH" as a TYPE of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... "ONE MAN"]

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And to be honest, I'm not seeing that in the text either. It just doesn't make sense for the text to say (in the BOLD):

"5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death: “ He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. "

... if it were the case that he was "SEEN" being taken up.

Nowhere does any text state that he WAS seen by others, at [/during] that point.




"By faith Enoch was translated not to see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him up. For before the translation, he was commended to have pleased God. "

When he was "taken", it was like centuries ago before the Flood! He's no model for pre-trib rapture if you do the math.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Carry_Your_Name , I am not one who insists that "TYPES" are intended to match in every nitty-gritty detail... but there is usually something (at least one thing) significant about it [/ a "type"] that makes it so.







["... he [ONE MAN] was not found, because God had taken him up..."]



Also, the name "ENOCH" can be traced back to / somewhat connected to the following definition / s :


1 train, train up a (the) youth (לַנַּעַר) Proverbs 22:6 (compare Late Hebrew חִנּוּךְ).

2 dedicate, of formal opening of a new house Deuteronomy 20:5 (twice in verse); dedicate, consecrate temple 1 Kings 8:63 2Chronicles 7:5 (all followed by accusative)