One taken,one left. The rapture.

[Absolutely]

Let me start off answering this part by stating what I've put in past posts (for your consideration )... Very briefly (lol):

--the disciples' question to Jesus (posed in Matthew 24:3) was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]"... when the ANGELS will "REAP"). His response to their question follows, in the two chapters (Matthew 24 and 25).

So His response PARALLELS what He had ALREADY been speaking to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 ("the end of the age"... and He had, even before that, told them of [and they rightly understood]"the age [singular] to come" which follows [follows-on-the-heels-of] that [aka, what we know as "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth]); He was not covering any other Subject (like the LATER GWTj or "our Rapture")... He was covering the Subject of His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [who it is who will ENTER that time period, as "still-living" persons upon His "RETURN" to the earth (i.e. no "resurrection [from the dead]" being spoken of in these two sections: Matt24-25 and Matt13)], and the specific, LIMITED time-period that immediately PRECEDES and LEADS UP to THAT (His Second Coming to the earth FOR the MK age);


--in Matt13, the angels [in their role as "REAPERS" at that point] will be told "collect ye FIRST the TARES"... this is the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event (bearing in mind that He'd said "let both GROW TOGETHER UNTIL"... which refers to "still-living" things [persons] being "harvested" [not a "resurrection [from the dead]" being spoken of, here--so this carries over to His LATER "response" to their Q of Matt24:3, in the two chpts which follow])




Hope that helps you see my perspective, at least a little bit = )




[p.s. I was going to go into what I've also put in past posts, that Lk21:36 ("[actively] FLEE OUT OF") is NOT a "rapture" reference, as many suppose it to be]

There were 3 question asked of Jesus , in mat 24, not one.

When Jesus says "before the flood", in mat 24, i wonder if he meant setting and time frame????

If he did, ( and it is true that he did), then i apparently stand alone in this entire board, of freedom to express it, see it, and analyze it.

Nobody goes there.

It is a hidden truth and somehow is scary to this entire board.

Right there . Hidden.

Nobody sees it.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The op is one taken-left.
My post was on target.

You counter with "5months, 5 months, 5 months, 5 months"
"See , 5 months"

...as if you voided Jesus words.
Then you go to some wild gaslight analogy, while not understanding what it is.

Tells me you cant defend your deal.
You are all over the place.
Yes " before the flood"
You know that little word " before", that wrecks all your doctrine

Strikes down any notion of no pretrib gathering.

Then the gathering BY JESUS....NOT ANGELS of rev 14:14 DURING THE TRIB.

Those verses, neither are voided by you, nor is "5months",nor are they going away.

THAT'S WHY you go to off topic side issues.

You kept saying BEFORE THE FLOOD, BEFORE THE FLOOD, BEFORE THE FLOOD, I was just playing your game. Flood lasted five months, judgement also will last five months, exactly as Jesus said that it will be like the days of Noah. I've never avoided any of that, you did.

So again, DEFINE "before". When is this before？

 

[Blade]

Lol the song playing right now "greater is He thats in you than he thats in the world". These are not OT days. Every believer has the sweet holy Spirit and Christ in them. The enemy cannot ever stand against you..its CHRIST in you ..you have been given all power all authority over the enemy. Lot kept talking to God and then God said "All right, I agree. I won't destroy that town. Hurry! Run! I can't do anything until you get there.". This time there is no talking. God wrath is coming on the world and God will make sure His righteous are not here.

You know Christ never said I go to prepare a place for you so where you are I will be. No said to His Fathers house thats not on earth. And HE will come get us so where HE is and that place HE prepared for us in His Fathers house. They understood this.. just look into a old Jewish wedding. For me if I have to add words or take words away or speculate.. then that is not Gods word. We have to get over this.... its going to happen and we get no say here. He our Father along will get the glory and no MAN is going to be right lol. All we do know is God will never go against our will. So some will not be ready some will not believe not be watching. To them when He comes in the air to them it will be as a thief in the night. Now Christ is not thief what He takes is His. I don't know when so I watch and am ready now. I will never miss Him

 

[DavidTree]

Lol the song playing right now "greater is He thats in you than he thats in the world". These are not OT days. Every believer has the sweet holy Spirit and Christ in them. The enemy cannot ever stand against you..its CHRIST in you ..you have been given all power all authority over the enemy. Lot kept talking to God and then God said "All right, I agree. I won't destroy that town. Hurry! Run! I can't do anything until you get there.". This time there is no talking. God wrath is coming on the world and God will make sure His righteous are not here.

You know Christ never said I go to prepare a place for you so where you are I will be. No said to His Fathers house thats not on earth. And HE will come get us so where HE is and that place HE prepared for us in His Fathers house. They understood this.. just look into a old Jewish wedding. For me if I have to add words or take words away or speculate.. then that is not Gods word. We have to get over this.... its going to happen and we get no say here. He our Father along will get the glory and no MAN is going to be right lol. All we do know is God will never go against our will. So some will not be ready some will not believe not be watching. To them when He comes in the air to them it will be as a thief in the night. Now Christ is not thief what He takes is His. I don't know when so I watch and am ready now. I will never miss Him

1 Thess , 2 Thess , 1 Cor ch15 , 1 John ch2 & 3 , Heb 9:28 , Prophets Noah Daniel Job in specific Order by God , James ch5

No need to speculate - just receive and believe and rejoice and sing and pray and share and care and beware

 

[Absolutely]

don’t most consider the “ rapture “ to be Hearn Christ returns and gathers his people literally from the earth ? I’m not even sure reading through these posts that we all have the same idea of terms like “ rapture “ and what that even means

Are we talking about when he returns to gather his people ?

“And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:21-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice he’s telling themthey will go through all he’s describing in those chapters and after it ends he will gather his people

I think we’re all thinking of a different thing and arguing about what the rapture even means which isn’t surprising because it doesn’t appear on scripture people invented the term when they read this

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as we see though it happens after the dead are raised up in the end and it only applies to those still alive in That final generation only that last generation of Christians will be caught up to meet the others in the air the day he returns

if we’re talking about spirit going to heaven that happens when each believer does after they have went through ehatever tribulation the world gives them.

There’s going to be at the end of the world just before it’s completely destroyed , still the church alive in that last generation on earth and only that day will they be caught up to meet those who went before in the air with Jesus which is where thy term “ rapture” came in

to go through the tribulation is promised to the church it’s why he was telling them beforehand what was coming. I don’t think ore tribulation has any merit but ore destruction of the earth does it will happen at that moment when he returns to destroy the earth just before he will gather all his people together with him and then destruction for all the rest the earth will become a lake of fire made for punishment of the ungodly

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


tribulation is part of being a Christian we just need to look around as we love as Christ taught and tribulations will come into focus it’s the world itself

Why do you guys omit the pretrib rapture verses?????
What are you doing????
We can all see that gathering postrib in mat 24...NOBODY thinks it is not there.
WE ALL SEE IT.

But you need RAPTURE verses
You NEED noah, and lot DEMONSTRATED as post Judgement dynamics. ( you need the opposite of the bible!!!!)
Ironically, the opposite of postrib rapture is found in the same chapter...spoken BY JESUS.
But you guys need to ask ask of yourselves "why do I do that?"
And "why did Jesus place the rapture pretrib in mat 24?"



In defending a postrib rapture doctrine, you can not make some sweeping motion, and throw every pretrib dynamic off the table, reframe 2 verses and then go into " see i am right"?

Remember Rev 14 has a gathering by Jesus DURING THE TRIB...

Now read 1thes4. Which declares DEAD RISE FIRST...(AS IN BEFORE ALL OTHERS ARE INCLUDED),

NOT, AFTER Rev 14:14, (declared in postrib rapture doctrine)
SOLID BIBLE PROOF postrib rapture is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE.

So ask yourselves, what page to tear out.
Which is true????
Those 2 verses collide in radical fashion ,in some supposed postrib rapture model.

 

[Absolutely]

Lol the song playing right now "greater is He thats in you than he thats in the world". These are not OT days. Every believer has the sweet holy Spirit and Christ in them. The enemy cannot ever stand against you..its CHRIST in you ..you have been given all power all authority over the enemy. Lot kept talking to God and then God said "All right, I agree. I won't destroy that town. Hurry! Run! I can't do anything until you get there.". This time there is no talking. God wrath is coming on the world and God will make sure His righteous are not here.

You know Christ never said I go to prepare a place for you so where you are I will be. No said to His Fathers house thats not on earth. And HE will come get us so where HE is and that place HE prepared for us in His Fathers house. They understood this.. just look into a old Jewish wedding. For me if I have to add words or take words away or speculate.. then that is not Gods word. We have to get over this.... its going to happen and we get no say here. He our Father along will get the glory and no MAN is going to be right lol. All we do know is God will never go against our will. So some will not be ready some will not believe not be watching. To them when He comes in the air to them it will be as a thief in the night. Now Christ is not thief what He takes is His. I don't know when so I watch and am ready now. I will never miss Him

amen to that.
We have a man with eyes open

 

[Absolutely]

You kept saying BEFORE THE FLOOD, BEFORE THE FLOOD, BEFORE THE FLOOD, I was just playing your game. Flood lasted five months, judgement also will last five months, exactly as Jesus said that it will be like the days of Noah. I've never avoided any of that, you did.

So again, DEFINE "before". When is this before？

define it.?????
Just read it.
I already posted it many times.
Just read it

Most cant or wont.
It is the op, but you and your colleagues can not see it

.....AS YOU JUST DEMONSTRATED.

 

[Absolutely]

LETS GET SIMPLE WITH IT.
What is pictured in mat 24 "before the flood"????
What do we have?
We have Noah in the ark( a type of heaven).
We have "God shuts the door".
Has any wicked been dealt with?
No.
Nothing of any wicked, doing anything, but normal sinners life.

THEN THE WATER WORKS START.
where is noah now????
Floating in the sky above the mountains.
Where are the the rest?
Dealing with staying afloat.

We see ZERO of any postrib rapture...NOTHING.

SAME WITH LOT.

Both noah and lot, being pretrib, prejudgment dynamics.
BY JESUS.

But yes Noah is in the picture postrib!!!!
NOT LEAVING ,OR SOME Invented IMMEDIATE UTURN ,as declared by postribber doctrine!!!!
NOT ANY POSTIBBER FORMULATION ANYWHERE IN THAT RETURN!!!!

That return, INSTEAD, MIRRORS the ptretrib rapture model!!!!!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why do you guys omit the pretrib rapture verses?????
What are you doing????
We can all see that gathering postrib in mat 24...NOBODY thinks it is not there.
WE ALL SEE IT.

But you need RAPTURE verses
You NEED noah, and lot DEMONSTRATED as post Judgement dynamics. ( you need the opposite of the bible!!!!)
Ironically, the opposite of postrib rapture is found in the same chapter...spoken BY JESUS.
But you guys need to ask ask of yourselves "why do I do that?"
And "why did Jesus place the rapture pretrib in mat 24?"



In defending a postrib rapture doctrine, you can not make some sweeping motion, and throw every pretrib dynamic off the table, reframe 2 verses and then go into " see i am right"?

Remember Rev 14 has a gathering by Jesus DURING THE TRIB...

Now read 1thes4. Which declares DEAD RISE FIRST...(AS IN BEFORE ALL OTHERS ARE INCLUDED),

NOT, AFTER Rev 14:14, (declared in postrib rapture doctrine)
SOLID BIBLE PROOF postrib rapture is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE.

So ask yourselves, what page to tear out.
Which is true????
Those 2 verses collide in radical fashion ,in some supposed postrib rapture model.

I’ve never read a pretrib scripture is why I don’t quote them. Have you ever noticed to make a pre trib idea we have to ignore what the scripture just says on its own ? And start explaining away everything it plainly says and get all carnal lol ?

I invite you to just share all those pre trib scriptures with me. Because I’m not aware of any myself. Every scripture about his return and gathering his people I’ve ever read agrees with what Jesus said in the gospel. That after all tribulation he will return and gather his people at the end of the world I know probably ten sets of scripture supporting that but I’ll wait and see what scripture you can offer of this other dofferent pre tribulation rapture

I’m not saying explain and argue how there’s a pre trib rapture but inviting you to share where the Bible itself teaches it.

Like what Jesus was saying here

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see how I don’t need to argue my idea but it’s just what’s written there it’s just what Jesus said about it ? Can you do that with any scripture ? Or like this ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not different from what Jesus said Paul doesn’t explain how they will
Be caught up in the air with him , Jesus does though he will send his angels to gather them. Different details of the same event Jesus return when he gathers his people from the earth together with those in heaven.

Where does the scripture say anything different ?

I’m willing to listen to what scripture actually says but I’m not aware of those teachings of how the church won’t be here when he returns or won’t go through tribulation

 

[Absolutely]

You can also see it as: Lot remained on the earth, the rest of the city did not, they perished.

Nope
CLEARLY AND VIVIDLY lot was taken away.
Judgment followed.
Lot removed prior to judgment.

You need it to say something else

So you made it say what you needed it to say.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Nope
CLEARLY AND VIVIDLY lot was taken away.
Judgment followed.
Lot removed prior to judgment.

You need it to say something else

So you made it say what you needed it to say.

yeah the moment immediately before it was destroyed with fire he escaped . And just before the flood noah entered the ark.

just after the tribulation immediately in a moment he will gather his people and then destroy everything else just like with lot and Noah

the tribulation isn’t the same as the wrath

 

[Absolutely]

I’ve never read a pretrib scripture is why I don’t quote them. Have you ever noticed to make a pre trib idea we have to ignore what the scripture just says on its own ? And start explaining away everything it plainly says and get all carnal lol ?

I invite you to just share all those pre trib scriptures with me. Because I’m not aware of any myself. Every scripture about his return and gathering his people I’ve ever read agrees with what Jesus said in the gospel. That after all tribulation he will return and gather his people at the end of the world I know probably ten sets of scripture supporting that but I’ll wait and see what scripture you can offer of this other dofferent pre tribulation rapture

I’m not saying explain and argue how there’s a pre trib rapture but inviting you to share where the Bible itself teaches it.

Like what Jesus was saying here

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see how I don’t need to argue my idea but it’s just what’s written there it’s just what Jesus said about it ? Can you do that with any scripture ? Or like this ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not different from what Jesus said Paul doesn’t explain how they will
Be caught up in the air with him , Jesus does though he will send his angels to gather them. Different details of the same event Jesus return when he gathers his people from the earth together with those in heaven.

Where does the scripture say anything different ?

I’m willing to listen to what scripture actually says but I’m not aware of those teachings of how the church won’t be here when he returns or won’t go through tribulation

They are
Acts 1 ( like manner)
1 thes 4
The last supper dialogue.
Mat 24 ( " before the flood")
Mat 25 ( vivid, vivid depiction with the virgins)
Rev 14:14 ( makes any hope of a postrib rapture 100% impossible)
Rev 19
The marriage in heaven.
Rev 19 the church in heaven
Rev 19 the bride becomes the wife in heaven.
Rev 19 the marriage supper in heaven.
Rev 19 the saints are ALREADY MOUNTED on horses prepared to follow Jesus into battle.

Then just to add:
In rev we see the ac is given power to overcome the saints, and that every man, is given the mark or killed.
So, all take the mark or die. (nobody left postrib to rapture but 50 folks hiding in caves that are near dead from starvation.)

That overcomer verse " they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death."
THEY DIED...THEY WERE MARTYRED.
Them the Jewish wedding dynamic....(yet another dillemma fir a postribber).
Then the 2 escape verses!!!!

so there is more.
But in all the years i have yet to see a postrib rapture adherent honestly look at any of them.

 

[Absolutely]

yeah the moment immediately before it was destroyed with fire he escaped . And just before the flood noah entered the ark.

just after the tribulation immediately in a moment he will gather his people and then destroy everything else just like with lot and Noah

the tribulation isn’t the same as the wrath

seems you are what is called "mid trib"?
(Pre wrath gathering halfway into the 7 year gt) ????

 

[Absolutely]

yeah the moment immediately before it was destroyed with fire he escaped . And just before the flood noah entered the ark.

just after the tribulation immediately in a moment he will gather his people and then destroy everything else just like with lot and Noah

the tribulation isn’t the same as the wrath

There is noting whatsoever in noah or lot indicating that

 

[Absolutely]

Nope
CLEARLY AND VIVIDLY lot was taken away.
Judgment followed.
Lot removed prior to judgment.

You need it to say something else

So you made it say what you needed it to say.

^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^

 

[Absolutely]

I’ve never read a pretrib scripture is why I don’t quote them. Have you ever noticed to make a pre trib idea we have to ignore what the scripture just says on its own ? And start explaining away everything it plainly says and get all carnal lol ?

I invite you to just share all those pre trib scriptures with me. Because I’m not aware of any myself. Every scripture about his return and gathering his people I’ve ever read agrees with what Jesus said in the gospel. That after all tribulation he will return and gather his people at the end of the world I know probably ten sets of scripture supporting that but I’ll wait and see what scripture you can offer of this other dofferent pre tribulation rapture

I’m not saying explain and argue how there’s a pre trib rapture but inviting you to share where the Bible itself teaches it.

Like what Jesus was saying here

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see how I don’t need to argue my idea but it’s just what’s written there it’s just what Jesus said about it ? Can you do that with any scripture ? Or like this ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not different from what Jesus said Paul doesn’t explain how they will
Be caught up in the air with him , Jesus does though he will send his angels to gather them. Different details of the same event Jesus return when he gathers his people from the earth together with those in heaven.

Where does the scripture say anything different ?

I’m willing to listen to what scripture actually says but I’m not aware of those teachings of how the church won’t be here when he returns or won’t go through tribulation

"""Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬"""


Rev 14:14 proves that verse You posted is pretrib.

 

[Absolutely]

Oh really? Did that flood last seven damn years? Or even 3.5 years? Last time I checked it's only FIVE MONTHS! So five months until the second coming it's still pre-trib then? You're making yourself a fool.

Oh BTW,
There is an article about that.
They were in the ark for over a year.

ALSO BTW,
Stop losing control
And stop torturing the analogy in hopes of making it say what you need it to say.
You have no point of anything with that 5 mo smoking gun you keep pulling to void out Gods word.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

When Jesus says "before the flood", in mat 24, i wonder if he meant setting and time frame????

"before the flood" simply means, the stuff they were doing "before the flood"...

...Noah was "preparing the ark" and being "a preacher of righteousness"...

However (in contrast to him), the "THEY / THEM" who "KNEW NOT UNTIL" (not Noah, HE KNEW and PREPARED THE ARK!)... the "THEY / THEM" who "KNEW NOT UNTIL" are the ones who "PERISHED" in the flood WHEN IT CAME (corresponding with Lk17:27,29's "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL"... that happened IN THE FLOOD... when it "took THEM all away". IOW, they didn't have rubber tubes they floated around on for some 38 or 39 of those days before they "perished" in the flood... no, they "perished" in the flood).

This isn't a picture of what occurs at the time of "our Rapture" (following it, for those still on the earth). Not EVERYONE left at that time will "PERISH" (be "DESTROYED [G622] ALL" - Lk17:27,29). No, many people (previously UNSAVED) will be COMING TO FAITH (following "our Rapture"); whereas many OTHERS will instead "believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" during that SAME TIME-PERIOD (a completely OPPOSITE "belief" to that of which the other group will be coming to). <--THIS is what is being referenced when it says "in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, UNTIL..." i.e. DISREGARDING the word of God via Noah [see 1Pet3:19-20a (note esp: "WHILE the ark was preparing")] the fact that a certain judgment IS COMING ("and DESTROYED [G622] ALL"... is the parallel point... which I've stated that this is not what takes place for those left on the earth, not participating in "our Rapture" [when SOME will be coming to faith during that time-period, and others will not (instead they will DISREGARD God's Word) during that SAME time-period]...

...rather, it's what takes place at His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19 [and all related passages speaking to this point]... They will NOT *ENTER* the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... and be among the "BLESSED" [who do enter]... only "the righteous" will ENTER... and instead, these particular ones ['disobedient / unbelieving' as in the days that Noah was preparing the ark "before the flood"] will be the ones referred to in the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" group [not occurring just following "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"--when they are still on the earth--which "RAPTURE" is not the Subject being covered in Jesus' Olivet Discourse ANYWHERE; Recall again, the "SEALS" [at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period we commonly call "the Trib"] are EQUIVALENT "the beginning of "birth PANGS [PLURAL]"... and the INITIAL one of THOSE is what "kicks off" the time-period known as "the day of the Lord"... yes, with judgments unfolding upon the earth over TIME... but NOT the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" thing, which is at the END / at His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19 point (and in all the Gospels speaking to that point, which is at the "MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" 2Th2:8b, when "EVERY EYE" shall see Him (this is NOT the case when 2Th2:1 occurs!!)])

 

[Absolutely]

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 reads, “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.”
While this verse, as well as the similar 1 Corinthians 15, are often interpreted as referring to the Rapture, this is problematic, and far from certain. There seems to be nothing here that indicates that believers will be secreted off the planet. Rather, these verses seems to say that Christians will simply be glorified in some way at the Second Coming—“caught up” with Christ and made anew along with the rest of creation.

Amen
I think postribbers invented the secret rapture deal to assist them, since they can not prove their doctrine.
They are mainly " anti pretrib rapture"

Pretibber here.
I never heard of secret rapture untill postribbers invented it along with margaret mcdonald and the false assumption that pretrib doctrine never existed till recently.

All that silly slander and lies are debunked solidly.
But it promotes the pretrib rapture since postribbers lose credibility using those antiquated debunked props.

Why do postribbers need those false props????

The bible debate keeps getting in the way i suppose

 

[Pilgrimshope]

seems you are what is called "mid trib"?
(Pre wrath gathering halfway into the 7 year gt) ????

no not at all I believe it’s rather plain and that there is no literal seven year period. But that’s just my view let’s not get distracted I would like to know what the rapture is to you ?

can I ask just for the sake of making sure I understand what you are saying this simple question

what does the rapture mean to you ? I’m asking what exactly is the rapture in your thinking ?

my definition of what some call the rapture is when Jesus returns and gathers his elect from the earth and heavens together at the end of the world just before he destroys it.

How would you describe what your meaning when you say “ rapture” I’m not asking when it will happen. but just trying to make sure I understand what you mean by rapture ? That could help the discussion