One taken,one left. The rapture.

[kleronomos]

And so that leaves the other half left behind, as , supposedly righteous.
So in their certain way of thinking, they have half the population of Earth as righteous, and half the population of Earth as Wicked.
Also in the postriber Doctrine we have the Rapture supposedly at that same time (at the white horses coming).
Jesus said to watch and be ready.

You really do not understand at all and I HAVEN'T READ WHAT YOU ARE SAYING you understand to be IN ANYONES POSTS AT ALL. I don't know where you are coming up with this stuff.

 

[kleronomos]

Also in the postriber Doctrine we have the Rapture supposedly at that same time (at the white horses coming).
Jesus said to watch and be ready.

WE ARE ALWAYS to be ready and watching for the Lord. We are to be 'LIVING' with the Lord. Our thoughts are to be heavenly always. It isn't

"A THING" to always be watching a ready. It doesn't have to do with PRE TRIB RAPTURE it has to do with BEING A CHRISTIAN. NOT THE 'END TIMES'. Pre trib just makes it SEEM like it goes to the doctrine but IT DOESN'T.

it is LIFE regular like.

 

[kleronomos]

This thread has really destroyed any hope of a post-trib rapture

ARE you saying you don't believe Christ will return to rule and reign and those who overcome the alive and remaining wont be changed at all?

Wasn't it you who said that 'all the CHRISTIANS are killed and there won't be hardly any to make it through the trib? Isn't it your doctrine that says the CHURCH is raptured away and there are only a few tribulation saints to make it through the trib? How does that leave half the world population to be taken at the end of the trib? And we know it is the end because it is like the times of Noah.


SO HERE IS THE ANSWER TO THE SPECIFIC PLACE BEING SPOKEN OF OF THOSE ON THE HOUSETOP
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 THEN LET THEM WHICH BE IN JUDAEA FLEE

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

SO THE TAKEN AND LEFT TIME PERIOD IS WHEN THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDS AND THE PLACE IS JUDEA

AND THE TAKEN AND LEFT IS TAKING PLACE AT THE END OF THE TRIB RIGHT BEFORE THE 'GREAT TRIB'.


SO NO MATTER WHAT, THE "TAKEN AND LEFT" COULD NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH NOTHING 'PRE TRIB' , EVEN IF THERE WAS ONE.


The Scriptures overlay each other so well, they all give a little bit more info of what is going on.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Neither let him which is in the field return back

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[Jocund]

This Thread has led to an interesting conclusion.
In the discussion, it came out that in the post trib Doctrine where it says "2 on a roof ,one is taken the other one left" ,that they contend the "one taken" is a wicked person.

Yes, if you are talking about Mat 24 and Luke 17. Those passages are not talking about a protective rapture, they are discussing destruction.

Now if we play that out in the post-trib scenario of times ,where Jesus is coming on white horses, they think they are going to see half the world's population "taken".

Most post-trib positions that I'm aware of place the rapture at Rev 20:5, not the white horses.

I assume postribers think these supposedly Wicked people are taken to Armageddon ,or someplace where they're going to be destroyed.

It's more to the tune that their lives are taken.

So in their certain way of thinking, they have half the population of Earth as righteous, and half the population of Earth as Wicked.

That's one way to look at it, and so long as it is "half minus one" it is consistent with the other scripture talking about the "few" being saved (meaning less than half). The "one taken, one left" does not necessarily mean a perfect 50/50 split, and there is an interesting emphasis on the concept that those that are left weren't taking any special measures in order not to be taken.

Also in the postriber Doctrine we have the Rapture supposedly at that same time (at the white horses coming).
Jesus said to watch and be ready.
I have to assume that postribers are saying that watching and waiting would be for the rapture.

The watching and waiting would be for the return of Christ, not the rapture. The two witnesses were raptured after they died and were resurrected. Death could come first in many cases.

we also know in the post-trib rapture doctrine that there is of course a Rapture postrib
.... So, now that the wicked are taken and destroyed the "other one" sleeping in a bed and the "other one" in a field ,and the "other one " on a roof ,they would be raptured at the same time the wicked are taken.

Did anyone actually take that position? If we place a rapturous skyward moment at Rev 20:5 that would mean that it happens at the resurrection and the beginning of the 1000 year kingdom.

All earths population gets removed in the postrib model.
What a bogus doctrine.

Did anyone actually take that position?

 

[Absolutely]

ARE you saying you don't believe Christ will return to rule and reign and those who overcome the alive and remaining wont be changed at all?

Wasn't it you who said that 'all the CHRISTIANS are killed and there won't be hardly any to make it through the trib? Isn't it your doctrine that says the CHURCH is raptured away and there are only a few tribulation saints to make it through the trib? How does that leave half the world population to be taken at the end of the trib? And we know it is the end because it is like the times of Noah.


SO HERE IS THE ANSWER TO THE SPECIFIC PLACE BEING SPOKEN OF OF THOSE ON THE HOUSETOP
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 THEN LET THEM WHICH BE IN JUDAEA FLEE

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

SO THE TAKEN AND LEFT TIME PERIOD IS WHEN THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDS AND THE PLACE IS JUDEA

AND THE TAKEN AND LEFT IS TAKING PLACE AT THE END OF THE TRIB RIGHT BEFORE THE 'GREAT TRIB'.


SO NO MATTER WHAT, THE "TAKEN AND LEFT" COULD NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH NOTHING 'PRE TRIB' , EVEN IF THERE WAS ONE.


The Scriptures overlay each other so well, they all give a little bit more info of what is going on.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Neither let him which is in the field return back

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

One taken one left.
Where are they taken?
It is at the coming of Jesus.

 

[Absolutely]

One taken one left.
Where are they taken?
It is at the coming of Jesus.

double post

 

[Absolutely]

ARE you saying you don't believe Christ will return to rule and reign and those who overcome the alive and remaining wont be changed at all?

Wasn't it you who said that 'all the CHRISTIANS are killed and there won't be hardly any to make it through the trib? Isn't it your doctrine that says the CHURCH is raptured away and there are only a few tribulation saints to make it through the trib? How does that leave half the world population to be taken at the end of the trib? And we know it is the end because it is like the times of Noah.


SO HERE IS THE ANSWER TO THE SPECIFIC PLACE BEING SPOKEN OF OF THOSE ON THE HOUSETOP
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 THEN LET THEM WHICH BE IN JUDAEA FLEE

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

SO THE TAKEN AND LEFT TIME PERIOD IS WHEN THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDS AND THE PLACE IS JUDEA

AND THE TAKEN AND LEFT IS TAKING PLACE AT THE END OF THE TRIB RIGHT BEFORE THE 'GREAT TRIB'.


SO NO MATTER WHAT, THE "TAKEN AND LEFT" COULD NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH NOTHING 'PRE TRIB' , EVEN IF THERE WAS ONE.


The Scriptures overlay each other so well, they all give a little bit more info of what is going on.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Neither let him which is in the field return back

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

SO NO MATTER WHAT, THE "TAKEN AND LEFT" COULD NEVER HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH NOTHING 'PRE TRIB' , EVEN IF THERE WAS ONE.

one more time.
noah BEFORE the flood enters the ark.
we have eating , drinking and festivities...normal life.
all that BEFORE the flood.
then, "one taken/left"
And Jesus says watch and be ready.

i know it hurts your deal and you work hard to make it say what you need it to, but if you play out your doctrine in relationship to what the bible says, then it is useless to try and fool yourself.

 

[justpassinthrough]

IOW
" can you please post it again?"

I just addressed the fact that when shown it is ignored.

Just ignore it totally

It makes no difference to you guys.
Pretend there are none.

I understand if you don’t have any scripture to validate your theory that there s a second and third coming of the Lord. You probably heard somewhere and believed it, by now when asked to provide scripture for this idea, there is none.


Here is the actual scriptures from Paul that teach the truth about this subject of the resurrection and rapture.


The Bible teaches that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


The Bible teaches that the antichrist is destroyed at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8








JPT

 

[kleronomos]

one more time.
noah BEFORE the flood enters the ark.
we have eating , drinking and festivities...normal life.
all that BEFORE the flood.
then, "one taken/left"
And Jesus says watch and be ready.

i know it hurts your deal and you work hard to make it say what you need it to, but if you play out your doctrine in relationship to what the bible says, then it is useless to try and fool yourself.

Jude 1:6 AND THE ANGELS WHICH KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE BUT LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, GIVING THEMSELVES OVER TO FORNICATION AND GOING AFTER STRANGE FLESH giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise alsoTHESE FILTHY DREAMERS DEFILE THE FLESH, DESPISE DOMINION AND SPEAK EVIL OF DIGNITIES these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

[kleronomos]

One taken one left.
Where are they taken?
It is at the coming of Jesus.

SAME

 

[FreeGrace2]

Absolutely said:
IOW
" can you please post it again?"

I just addressed the fact that when shown it is ignored.

Just ignore it totally

It makes no difference to you guys.
Pretend there are none.

I understand if you don’t have any scripture to validate your theory that there s a second and third coming of the Lord. You probably heard somewhere and believed it, by now when asked to provide scripture for this idea, there is none.

Here is the actual scriptures from Paul that teach the truth about this subject of the resurrection and rapture.

The Bible teaches that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

The Bible teaches that the antichrist is destroyed at His coming.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
JPT

And 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
So, we know WHEN the resurrection/gathering will be, and we now WHO will be there.

 

[Absolutely]

Jude 1:6 AND THE ANGELS WHICH KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE BUT LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, GIVING THEMSELVES OVER TO FORNICATION AND GOING AFTER STRANGE FLESH giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise alsoTHESE FILTHY DREAMERS DEFILE THE FLESH, DESPISE DOMINION AND SPEAK EVIL OF DIGNITIES these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Amen.
I stay away from all who have a form of Godliness but deny Him, His word and his power.

2tim 3
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They claim all sorts of things and elevate themselves even above Gods word to change it around to suit their man made doctrine

 

[Absolutely]

[QUOTE="kleronomos, post: 4802759, [/QUOTE]

Absolutely said:

One taken one left.
Where are they taken?
It is at the coming of Jesus.
SAME

Kleronomo answers; "same"

You can not debate that dynamic.
We see that.

Even possible you cant answer it.

Lol

 

[Absolutely]

I understand if you don’t have any scripture to validate your theory that there s a second and third coming of the Lord. You probably heard somewhere and believed it, by now when asked to provide scripture for this idea, there is none.


Here is the actual scriptures from Paul that teach the truth about this subject of the resurrection and rapture.


The Bible teaches that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


The Bible teaches that the antichrist is destroyed at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8








JPT

Wasn't it you that could not answer the clear verse of rev 14:14?

I think that was one of them.

Any luck yet with that one?

 

[kleronomos]

Amen.
I stay away from all who have a form of Godliness but deny Him, His word and his power.

2tim 3
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They claim all sorts of things and elevate themselves even above Gods word to change it around to suit their man made doctrine

WE are discussing the FLOOD OF NOAHS TIME. We are discussing whether the time was as you believe NORMAL or if it is as I believe NOT NORMAL but had fallen angels. BUT THANK YOU FOR THE INSIGHT out of left field.


SO TO GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND which is why I put forth JUDE as it explains, HOW DOES IT RELATE TO THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION? Or are you intentionally by passing it so as not to address the discrepancy between WHATT IS WRITTEN AND what you yourself profess to be true?

 

[kleronomos]

[QUOTE="kleronomos, post: 4802759,

Absolutely said:

Kleronomo answers; "same"

You can not debate that dynamic.
We see that.

Even possible you cant answer it.

Lol[/QUOTE]
YES, because you just keep putting forh the same thing WHILE not addressing the responses. So instead of writing them over I will just write SAME to show you are bringing about nothing new.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Amen.
I stay away from all who have a form of Godliness but deny Him, His word and his power.

You say you stay away from all who "deny Him, His Word". But you yourself deny His Word when you reject 2 Thess 2:1-3 as the singular resurrection occurring at the Second Advent, along with the living believers being given their glorified bodies as well.

So, how does that work, exactly?

They claim all sorts of things

You've claimed "all sorts of things" yet are unable to provide any verse that says what you have claimed.

 

[Absolutely]

WE are discussing the FLOOD OF NOAHS TIME. We are discussing whether the time was as you believe NORMAL or if it is as I believe NOT NORMAL but had fallen angels. BUT THANK YOU FOR THE INSIGHT out of left field.


SO TO GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND which is why I put forth JUDE as it explains, HOW DOES IT RELATE TO THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION? Or are you intentionally by passing it so as not to address the discrepancy between WHATT IS WRITTEN AND what you yourself profess to be true?

What is your point in the verses from jude?

 

[Absolutely]

You really do not understand at all and I HAVEN'T READ WHAT YOU ARE SAYING you understand to be IN ANYONES POSTS AT ALL. I don't know where you are coming up with this stuff.

Look.
I tried to pin you down to what you believe.
SPECIFICALLY asked you "where are they taken"

Your non answer into defection is
One word;
"Same"

Then i get a corrective lecture on doing what you do.
All my posts are clear. No hiding, no erroneous transfer of verses

Lets try this for about the 5th time;
Noah is framed preflood pretrib.
The earths population in everyday activities.
From that setting
"One is taken"

Taken where?
Is that " one" wicked or righteous?

 

[Absolutely]

Jude 1:6 AND THE ANGELS WHICH KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE BUT LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, GIVING THEMSELVES OVER TO FORNICATION AND GOING AFTER STRANGE FLESH giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise alsoTHESE FILTHY DREAMERS DEFILE THE FLESH, DESPISE DOMINION AND SPEAK EVIL OF DIGNITIES these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Same