One taken,one left. The rapture.

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Jul 23, 2018
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WE are discussing the FLOOD OF NOAHS TIME. We are discussing whether the time was as you believe NORMAL or if it is as I believe NOT NORMAL but had fallen angels. BUT THANK YOU FOR THE INSIGHT out of left field.


SO TO GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND which is why I put forth JUDE as it explains, HOW DOES IT RELATE TO THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION? Or are you intentionally by passing it so as not to address the discrepancy between WHATT IS WRITTEN AND what you yourself profess to be true?
You do all that to micromanage the word "normal"?

Normal as opposed to crazy panic in the judgement.

But you take the word "normal", into 50 degrees of "normal", and the silliness of " my idea of normal is not this and that"

It even lists the activities, pointing to everyday life.
( But let's leave out "normal" since it has become a deflection opportunity for you)
Lets just say "normal everyday life"....(but for you we will omit "normal", and just point you to the word of God where the Holy Spirit spells out everyday life).
Vivid and crystal clear everyday life.
No brainer.
 
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WE ARE ALWAYS to be ready and watching for the Lord. We are to be 'LIVING' with the Lord. Our thoughts are to be heavenly always. It isn't

"A THING" to always be watching a ready. It doesn't have to do with PRE TRIB RAPTURE it has to do with BEING A CHRISTIAN. NOT THE 'END TIMES'. Pre trib just makes it SEEM like it goes to the doctrine but IT DOESN'T.

it is LIFE regular like.
No really plausible.

A friend tells another friend " i will be there in 7 years to get you"

Nobody is going to watch for him and be waiting the next day.
Nobody
 
Jan 31, 2021
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No really plausible.

A friend tells another friend " i will be there in 7 years to get you"

Nobody is going to watch for him and be waiting the next day.
Nobody
You're right. It isn't plausible.

But here's the deal. When Jesus said "no man knows the day or hour", He was referring to His Second Advent. No one will know when that will be. There's no way to calculate a specific day or hour.

Why not? Because the beginning of the Tribulation does not have specific events that would indicate the start.

Instead, we have the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. Read about them in Rev 6 and see if you or anyone can pinpoint a specific time on any of that.

But, even if there were a specific event that would begin the Tribulation, the 7 years of Tribulation are not specific to the "day and hour". So "7 years" is approx.

Anyway, it will be the living believers in the Tribulation who are being encouraged to wait for Christ's return.

I know you think there will be a resurrection/rapture just before the Tribulation, where Jesus takes the whole bunch up to heaven.

Unless you can find at least one verse that specifically describes such a trip, it is just fantasy.
 
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You're right. It isn't plausible.

But here's the deal. When Jesus said "no man knows the day or hour", He was referring to His Second Advent. No one will know when that will be. There's no way to calculate a specific day or hour.

Why not? Because the beginning of the Tribulation does not have specific events that would indicate the start.

Instead, we have the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. Read about them in Rev 6 and see if you or anyone can pinpoint a specific time on any of that.

But, even if there were a specific event that would begin the Tribulation, the 7 years of Tribulation are not specific to the "day and hour". So "7 years" is approx.

Anyway, it will be the living believers in the Tribulation who are being encouraged to wait for Christ's return.

I know you think there will be a resurrection/rapture just before the Tribulation, where Jesus takes the whole bunch up to heaven.

Unless you can find at least one verse that specifically describes such a trip, it is just fantasy.
Revelation 14;
144k in heaven Before the Throne. "were" redeemed, (past tense) from the Earth and are now in heaven .
I guess that would be one fantasy.
another one would be Revelation 19, the scene in heaven, the bride has become the wife, the Saints are mounted on white horses, and the wedding supper in heaven is completed.
That there would be your second fantasy
The last supper has Jesus preparing structures, in heaven, for his bride.
....another "church in heaven" fantasy.
Again, at the Last Supper, Jesus tells his people I will not drink of the fruit of the vine again till I drink it Anew with you in my father's Kingdom.
So..... we have yet another fantasy
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You're right. It isn't plausible.

But here's the deal. When Jesus said "no man knows the day or hour", He was referring to His Second Advent. No one will know when that will be. There's no way to calculate a specific day or hour.

Why not? Because the beginning of the Tribulation does not have specific events that would indicate the start.

Instead, we have the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. Read about them in Rev 6 and see if you or anyone can pinpoint a specific time on any of that.

But, even if there were a specific event that would begin the Tribulation, the 7 years of Tribulation are not specific to the "day and hour". So "7 years" is approx.

Anyway, it will be the living believers in the Tribulation who are being encouraged to wait for Christ's return.

I know you think there will be a resurrection/rapture just before the Tribulation, where Jesus takes the whole bunch up to heaven.

Unless you can find at least one verse that specifically describes such a trip, it is just fantasy.
Anyway, it will be the living believers in the Tribulation who are being encouraged to wait for Christ's return
rev 14:14, Jesus returns, sitting on a cloud , DURING THE GT.

Destroys every hope of a made up postrib rapture.
 
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Look.
I tried to pin you down to what you believe.
SPECIFICALLY asked you "where are they taken"

Your non answer into defection is
One word;
"Same"

Then i get a corrective lecture on doing what you do.
All my posts are clear. No hiding, no erroneous transfer of verses

Lets try this for about the 5th time;
Noah is framed preflood pretrib.
The earths population in everyday activities.
From that setting
"One is taken"

Taken where?
Is that " one" wicked or righteous?
He is 'taken' not in a physical manner. In other words he is not taken from one place to another. Noah wasn't
taken anywhere either. NOT that it matters BECAUSE there is no pre tribulation rapture. SINCE there is no pre tribulation rapture written about in the words of God, there is NOTHING to teach or learn. The only thing some of us can do, is KEEP POINTING THAT OUT. This is how we do it. We ask you to make a case.

BIBLE 101 and what I am pretty sure EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN KNOWS is GOD didn't look down on the earth one day and FOR NO REASON BUT EVERYTHING WAS GOING ALONG ALL NORMAL LIFE DECIDE TO END LIFE ON EARTH.

YOU, trying and trying to make that case is???? I want to say ignorant, but you know the story, so that isn't it. Willful or not, it is apparent to everyone, EVEN those who profess belief in pre trib rapture, that what is being suggested as truth simply isn't. The days BEFORE THE FLOOD weren't normal by any stretch.

You keep asking for a 'physical' body taking from one place to another. Ask me a million times and it will still always be a SPIRITUAL taking and not a physical one. YOU CAN SAY I AM NOT ANSWERING the question but you know I am.

I CAN'T ANSWER IT ANY OTHER WAY AS I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A PHYSICAL TAKING LIKE YOU DO so I can't ever SAY WHERE they are 'taken to' for your satisfaction, can I?

I do know why you are fighting so hard and why it CAN'T BE ABOUT THE ANGELS FOR YOU BECAUSE IF IT WERE THEN WHEN YOU TRANSFERED IT TO THE PRE TRIB DOCTRINE THE DOCTRINE WOULD FAIL BECAUSE 'THE ANGELS AND SATAN' WOULD BE HERE BEFORE THE TAKING AND THAT CERTAINLY IN ANOTHER NAIL IN THE COFFIN.

LET'S LIST 2 OF THOSE NAILS

1. TILL ENEMY MADE FOOT STOOL. Sure you can say Jesus showed up for John to fall at His feet but I am sure even you would agree that 'a rapture of the church' is quite a different thing that a showing up and talking to. I of course don't believe that Christ would disobeyed God, for the PRE TRIB RAP it seems to be ok to have Jesus 'in the air' of the earth while Satan is still in heaven. With the earth being 'the footstool' it puts Jesus at the feet of Satan. The whole thing just tastes bad.

2. The verse used for the church being 'taken up' is the verse used for the return of Christ to rule and reign on earth leaving you NOT ONE VERSE to get the church off the ground. We know this to be truth because of 1. the trump 2. brethren being brought back with Him 3. the dead rising 4 the alive and remaining changed. NONE OF THOSE THINGS happen at any time EXCEPT AT THE VERY END WHEN THE 7TH TRUMP IS BLOWN AND ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE EARTH ARE MADE HIS

3 The books and chapters you use as 'proof' THEMSELVES SPELL OUT THE DAY as 'in flaming fire' executing JUDGMENT
2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Please read this carefully
10 When He shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

do YOU SEE HOW WE MUST BE HERE FOR THIS VERSE TO HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN TRUTH. IT DOESN'T SAY ' TRIBULATION SAINTS' BUT OUR TESTIMONY WAS BELIEVED. THAT IS US, THE CHURCH. AND WE ARE GIVEN A TIME FOR THIS TO TAKE PLACE

IN THAT DAY

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

THEY PRAYED WE WOULD BE WORTHY OF THIS CALLING

AND FULFIL ALL THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS GOODNESS,

AND WE ARE TO WORK THE WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER.

THESE WORDS AREN'T WRITTEN TO the so called 'TRIB SAINTS' they are written to those who are told to put on the armor of God to withstand AND TO STAND IN THE DAY. HOW MANY TIMES ARE WE TOLD TO DO THIS? HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF different WAYS is it written?

HOW CAN WE IGNORE that EVERYONE the Holy Spirit has been working through, guiding in the putting on of the gospel armor, IS SNATCHED AWAY. WHO DOES SATAN TRY AND DECEIVE IF THE CHURCH IS GONE?

ARE WE TO BELIEVE THAT GOD IS SENDING TWO WITNESSES INTO A WORLD WHERE ALL KNOWLEDGE OF THEM HAS DISAPPEARED? AND THE ONLY ONES LEFT

ONLY BELIEVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE 'SEEN' THE CHURCH RAPTURED???? how does that work? do they get instant knowledge ON HOW TO READ AND RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORDS OF GOD?

WE HAVE NO ANSWERS FOR ANY QUESTIONS BECAUSE FOR A MIRACLE BIGGER THAN THE PARTING OF THE SEA,

THERE ISN'T A WORD ABOUT IT. NOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS BEFORE. NOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS DURING. NOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER. NOW ABOUT UP IN HEAVEN. NOT ABOUT IF THEY EVEN RETURN TO EARTH. NOT ONE SINGLE DETAIL.


FAITH IS OF THINGS UNSEEN. SO these 'made up TRIB SAINTS' DON'T HAVE FAITH, THEY HAVE FEAR. AND THESE ARE THOSE WHO GOD IS COUNTING ON?

HOW YOU DON'T SEE ALL OF THESE THINGS AS GOING AGAINST EVERYTHING THAT IS WRITTEN I ONLY KNOW OF TWO ANSWERS AND THAT IS BLINDNESS OR WILLINGLY.


1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


How are we protected from WRATH? 1Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. NOT BY PRE TRIB RAPTURE BUT BY our Lord and Savior. Spiritual
 
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I understand if you don’t have any scripture to validate your theory that there s a second and third coming of the Lord. You probably heard somewhere and believed it, by now when asked to provide scripture for this idea, there is none.


Here is the actual scriptures from Paul that teach the truth about this subject of the resurrection and rapture.


The Bible teaches that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


The Bible teaches that the antichrist is destroyed at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8








JPT
both sides believe every bit if that.
It promotes a pretrib rapture. Just remove the postrib glasses and re read it.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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The last supper has Jesus preparing structures, in heaven, for his bride.
....another "church in heaven" fantasy.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY

THE LAST SUPPER HAS JESUS PREPARING 'STRUCTURES IN HEAVEN' FOR HIS BRIDE

AS ANOTHER 'CHURCH IN HEAVEN FANTASY'?
 
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Revelation 14;
144k in heaven Before the Throne. "were" redeemed, (past tense) from the Earth and are now in heaven .
Are you not aware that "redeemed" is NOT a resurrection?

Also, are you nnot aware that every believer has been redeemed (past tense) and when they die physically they GO TO HEAVEN?

I guess that would be one fantasy.
It's not a fantasy. The Bible says so.

What the Bible does say is that Jesus is a tour guide who takes glorified believers to heaven.

Now, that is a fantasy.
 
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both sides believe every bit if that.
It promotes a pretrib rapture. Just remove the postrib glasses and re read it.
How is that done? IF THE LAWLESS ONE IS DESTROYED BY HIS COMING THEN HOW IS HIS COMING BEFORE?
 
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rev 14:14, Jesus returns, sitting on a cloud , DURING THE GT.

How do you know it is during the GT? Do you think that every chapter and verse in Revelation is sequential?


Destroys every hope of a made up postrib rapture.
The Bible teaches that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23. Go ahead and prove any of these say something else.

The Bible teaches that ALL believers will be resurrected/given glorified bodies at that one resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23, Rev 20:4,5

The Bible teaches that the one resurrection of the saved will be "when He comes" back. 1 Cor 15:23

The Bible teaches that the "gathering" which you call a rapture will be "when He comes". 2 Thess 2:1-3

You haven't ever tried to refute my view of any of these verses.

Yet, you continue to grasp onto the fantasy that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven. And the Bible says nothing about that.
 
Mar 12, 2022
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The Great Tribulation came upon the "generation of vipers":

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Our generation didn't kill nor crucified prophets. The Tribulation was for the generation of vipers back then, not for us.
 
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The Great Tribulation came upon the "generation of vipers":

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Our generation didn't kill nor crucified prophets. The Tribulation was for the generation of vipers back then, not for us.
The Second Advent of Jesus Christ ends the Great Tribulation. That hasn't happened yet. Re-check your watch.
 
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The Second Advent of Jesus Christ ends the Great Tribulation. That hasn't happened yet. Re-check your watch.
It hasn't happened yet because you say so? Because if Scripture says the Tribulation would come on the "generation of vipers", and the "sign of the Son of Man" will appear in heaven "Immediately after the tribulation of those days", then you have no choice but to deduce He already returned, just like He said He would.
 
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He is 'taken' not in a physical manner. In other words he is not taken from one place to another. Noah wasn't
taken anywhere either. NOT that it matters BECAUSE there is no pre tribulation rapture. SINCE there is no pre tribulation rapture written about in the words of God, there is NOTHING to teach or learn. The only thing some of us can do, is KEEP POINTING THAT OUT. This is how we do it. We ask you to make a case.

BIBLE 101 and what I am pretty sure EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN KNOWS is GOD didn't look down on the earth one day and FOR NO REASON BUT EVERYTHING WAS GOING ALONG ALL NORMAL LIFE DECIDE TO END LIFE ON EARTH.

YOU, trying and trying to make that case is???? I want to say ignorant, but you know the story, so that isn't it. Willful or not, it is apparent to everyone, EVEN those who profess belief in pre trib rapture, that what is being suggested as truth simply isn't. The days BEFORE THE FLOOD weren't normal by any stretch.

You keep asking for a 'physical' body taking from one place to another. Ask me a million times and it will still always be a SPIRITUAL taking and not a physical one. YOU CAN SAY I AM NOT ANSWERING the question but you know I am.

I CAN'T ANSWER IT ANY OTHER WAY AS I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A PHYSICAL TAKING LIKE YOU DO so I can't ever SAY WHERE they are 'taken to' for your satisfaction, can I?

I do know why you are fighting so hard and why it CAN'T BE ABOUT THE ANGELS FOR YOU BECAUSE IF IT WERE THEN WHEN YOU TRANSFERED IT TO THE PRE TRIB DOCTRINE THE DOCTRINE WOULD FAIL BECAUSE 'THE ANGELS AND SATAN' WOULD BE HERE BEFORE THE TAKING AND THAT CERTAINLY IN ANOTHER NAIL IN THE COFFIN.

LET'S LIST 2 OF THOSE NAILS

1. TILL ENEMY MADE FOOT STOOL. Sure you can say Jesus showed up for John to fall at His feet but I am sure even you would agree that 'a rapture of the church' is quite a different thing that a showing up and talking to. I of course don't believe that Christ would disobeyed God, for the PRE TRIB RAP it seems to be ok to have Jesus 'in the air' of the earth while Satan is still in heaven. With the earth being 'the footstool' it puts Jesus at the feet of Satan. The whole thing just tastes bad.

2. The verse used for the church being 'taken up' is the verse used for the return of Christ to rule and reign on earth leaving you NOT ONE VERSE to get the church off the ground. We know this to be truth because of 1. the trump 2. brethren being brought back with Him 3. the dead rising 4 the alive and remaining changed. NONE OF THOSE THINGS happen at any time EXCEPT AT THE VERY END WHEN THE 7TH TRUMP IS BLOWN AND ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE EARTH ARE MADE HIS

3 The books and chapters you use as 'proof' THEMSELVES SPELL OUT THE DAY as 'in flaming fire' executing JUDGMENT
2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Please read this carefully
10 When He shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

do YOU SEE HOW WE MUST BE HERE FOR THIS VERSE TO HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN TRUTH. IT DOESN'T SAY ' TRIBULATION SAINTS' BUT OUR TESTIMONY WAS BELIEVED. THAT IS US, THE CHURCH. AND WE ARE GIVEN A TIME FOR THIS TO TAKE PLACE

IN THAT DAY

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

THEY PRAYED WE WOULD BE WORTHY OF THIS CALLING

AND FULFIL ALL THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS GOODNESS,

AND WE ARE TO WORK THE WORK OF FAITH WITH POWER.

THESE WORDS AREN'T WRITTEN TO the so called 'TRIB SAINTS' they are written to those who are told to put on the armor of God to withstand AND TO STAND IN THE DAY. HOW MANY TIMES ARE WE TOLD TO DO THIS? HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF different WAYS is it written?

HOW CAN WE IGNORE that EVERYONE the Holy Spirit has been working through, guiding in the putting on of the gospel armor, IS SNATCHED AWAY. WHO DOES SATAN TRY AND DECEIVE IF THE CHURCH IS GONE?

ARE WE TO BELIEVE THAT GOD IS SENDING TWO WITNESSES INTO A WORLD WHERE ALL KNOWLEDGE OF THEM HAS DISAPPEARED? AND THE ONLY ONES LEFT

ONLY BELIEVE BECAUSE THEY HAVE 'SEEN' THE CHURCH RAPTURED???? how does that work? do they get instant knowledge ON HOW TO READ AND RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORDS OF GOD?

WE HAVE NO ANSWERS FOR ANY QUESTIONS BECAUSE FOR A MIRACLE BIGGER THAN THE PARTING OF THE SEA,

THERE ISN'T A WORD ABOUT IT. NOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS BEFORE. NOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS DURING. NOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER. NOW ABOUT UP IN HEAVEN. NOT ABOUT IF THEY EVEN RETURN TO EARTH. NOT ONE SINGLE DETAIL.


FAITH IS OF THINGS UNSEEN. SO these 'made up TRIB SAINTS' DON'T HAVE FAITH, THEY HAVE FEAR. AND THESE ARE THOSE WHO GOD IS COUNTING ON?

HOW YOU DON'T SEE ALL OF THESE THINGS AS GOING AGAINST EVERYTHING THAT IS WRITTEN I ONLY KNOW OF TWO ANSWERS AND THAT IS BLINDNESS OR WILLINGLY.


1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


How are we protected from WRATH? 1Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. NOT BY PRE TRIB RAPTURE BUT BY our Lord and Savior. Spiritual
"He is 'taken' not in a physical manner. In other words he is not taken from one place to another. Noah wasn't
taken anywhere either....."
1. The Holy Spirit blocks that made up sillines, that, "it is not saying anyone physically taken off a roof by inserting;" the other one left"

2. Noah was in the boat. If the boat is not "taken" anywhere , how did NOAH RETURN TO EARTH.?????


You know at some

You are trying so hard to make the word of God teach your doctrine.
How is that done? IF THE LAWLESS ONE IS DESTROYED BY HIS COMING THEN HOW IS HIS COMING BEFORE?
Rev 14:14.
Jesus gathers from a cloud.
He never apparently touched earth.
Also in 1 thes 4,
Jesus gathers from the sky and does not touch earth.

Jesus comes for the ripe fruit in rev14 and for the saints in 1 thes 4.
(HE comes 3 times. On the last one, he comes WITH THE SAINTS and he stays.)
Neither are the second coming on white horses.
It is written plainly that those are 3 separate events.

( unless you try to cram all 3 into rev 14:14)

Which anyone can see is NOT Jesus coming in power with billions of horses blackening the sky.

That is the debate.
3 separate comings
 
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It hasn't happened yet because you say so? Because if Scripture says the Tribulation would come on the "generation of vipers", and the "sign of the Son of Man" will appear in heaven "Immediately after the tribulation of those days", then you have no choice but to deduce He already returned, just like He said He would.
You can check out the historicist view as incorrect, because there has never been an antichrist, a worldwide mark in the forehead, or flying scorpions, and never have we seen 2 witnesses breathing fire, killed and then resurrected, ...... and no hailstones of fire.

All eschatology is future.
The only thing i can agree on with historicist view is the seige of ad 70 being a partial fulfillment of Jesus words of mat 24.
 
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How do you know it is during the GT? Do you think that every chapter and verse in Revelation is sequential?


The Bible teaches that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23. Go ahead and prove any of these say something else.

The Bible teaches that ALL believers will be resurrected/given glorified bodies at that one resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23, Rev 20:4,5

The Bible teaches that the one resurrection of the saved will be "when He comes" back. 1 Cor 15:23

The Bible teaches that the "gathering" which you call a rapture will be "when He comes". 2 Thess 2:1-3

You haven't ever tried to refute my view of any of these verses.

Yet, you continue to grasp onto the fantasy that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven. And the Bible says nothing about that.
How do you know it is during the GT? Do you think that every chapter and verse in Revelation is sequential?
Because rev 14:14 is between the 144k taken to heaven, and the final gathering of overripe fruit to armageddon
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
The Second Advent of Jesus Christ ends the Great Tribulation. That hasn't happened yet. Re-check your watch.
It hasn't happened yet because you say so?
Not because I said it. Because the Bible is very clear about it. Read the verses I shared.

Because if Scripture says the Tribulation would come on the "generation of vipers", and the "sign of the Son of Man" will appear in heaven "Immediately after the tribulation of those days", then you have no choice but to deduce He already returned, just like He said He would.
I have no idea why anyone would come to the conclusion you have.

All of Scripture points to Jesus Christ's Second Advent, where He wins the battle of Armageddon, throws the beast and FP into the lake of fire, and locks Satan up for 1,000 years, during which He rules the nations with a rod of iron.

If you aren't familiar with any of this, you need to begin a study of Revelation. It's all there.
 
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2. Noah was in the boat. If the boat is not "taken" anywhere , how did NOAH RETURN TO EARTH.?????
Noah DIDN'T "return to earth" since he NEVER left it. That's the whole point.

Jesus comes for the ripe fruit in rev14 and for the saints in 1 thes 4.
(HE comes 3 times. On the last one, he comes WITH THE SAINTS and he stays.)
Neither are the second coming on white horses.
It is written plainly that those are 3 separate events.
No, it isn't "written plainly". You are just seeing things. There are 2 advents prophesied in the OT.

The first advent is when Jesus came as a baby to become the suffering servant.
The second advent is when Jesus comes back as King of kings and Lord of lords, to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

It is at the second advent that all the believers receive their glorified bodies.

That is the debate.
3 separate comings
You have already lost the debate.

Show me any scholar who claims there are 3 advents of Christ.