Pentecostalism's sketchy origins
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There were two movements at about the same time. There was Azusa Street and The Welsh revival. The "Pentecostal" aspect of the Welsh revival seems not get much attention. I've read a book about it, by Jesse Penn-Lewis. She makes it clear that the Welsh revival included the restoration of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Azusa Street was more Holy Spirit focused and led to two major Pentecostal denominations. To me this indicates serious flaws as division is never God's will.
In both revivals, there was error mixed in with the real. Jesse Penn-Lewis was a journalist and followed the Welsh revival closely. She reported her observations in "War on the Saints" It's hard reading but should be on every believer's reading list.
I also read a book that covered the Azusa St revival. A friend and mentor pointed out the cover of the book. It showed a traditional American church and a lighting strike to the earth. Lord Jesus said that He saw Satan fall like lightning.
I've had a fair bit to do with Pentecostals, including 5 years membership and youth leadership at a Pentecostal church. Over the years, I saw that there is a lack of discernment, even among leaders. Charlatans and fakers seemed to be welcomed and some genuinely spiritual people rejected. Then the Toronto Blessing, a total deception, came along in the 90's. Most Pentecostals embraced it completely.
The question for me was why? How can supposedly spiritual people be so easily deceived? So I asked the Lord. He said to me, "They know me as the Way, they know me as the Truth. They do not know me as the Life". Not at all the answer I was expecting.
One way of detecting forgeries is to become familiar with the real thing. For example, artists have a style, patterns, brush work and such that are unique. The expert compares works that are known to see how closely they match the style of a piece that is claimed to be a well known artist. We need to know Lord Jesus so that we can detect counterfeit manifestations that purport to be the Holy Spirit.
We also need to trust our spirit man. We have the Holy Spirit who witnesses to the truth. I won't name names unless I must, but I doubted the reality of a well known woman healer. Kurt Koch sought out the people supposedly healed. None of the healings stuck.
For sure there are genuine miracles. I've had instant and permanent healing myself. I've prayed for people who have been healed instantly. Some got worse, we won't talk about that!
When I read that Lord Jesus crowed like a rooster, fell on the floor laughing uncontrollably, rolled about on the floor or swung from the rafters of the local synagogue, I will believe the Toronto Blessing. Until then, "everything must be done in a proper and orderly manner" 1 Corinthians 14:40. I do not consider the circus of a Toronto Blessing meeting either proper or orderly.
Azusa Street was more Holy Spirit focused and led to two major Pentecostal denominations. To me this indicates serious flaws as division is never God's will.
In both revivals, there was error mixed in with the real. Jesse Penn-Lewis was a journalist and followed the Welsh revival closely. She reported her observations in "War on the Saints" It's hard reading but should be on every believer's reading list.
I also read a book that covered the Azusa St revival. A friend and mentor pointed out the cover of the book. It showed a traditional American church and a lighting strike to the earth. Lord Jesus said that He saw Satan fall like lightning.
I've had a fair bit to do with Pentecostals, including 5 years membership and youth leadership at a Pentecostal church. Over the years, I saw that there is a lack of discernment, even among leaders. Charlatans and fakers seemed to be welcomed and some genuinely spiritual people rejected. Then the Toronto Blessing, a total deception, came along in the 90's. Most Pentecostals embraced it completely.
The question for me was why? How can supposedly spiritual people be so easily deceived? So I asked the Lord. He said to me, "They know me as the Way, they know me as the Truth. They do not know me as the Life". Not at all the answer I was expecting.
One way of detecting forgeries is to become familiar with the real thing. For example, artists have a style, patterns, brush work and such that are unique. The expert compares works that are known to see how closely they match the style of a piece that is claimed to be a well known artist. We need to know Lord Jesus so that we can detect counterfeit manifestations that purport to be the Holy Spirit.
We also need to trust our spirit man. We have the Holy Spirit who witnesses to the truth. I won't name names unless I must, but I doubted the reality of a well known woman healer. Kurt Koch sought out the people supposedly healed. None of the healings stuck.
For sure there are genuine miracles. I've had instant and permanent healing myself. I've prayed for people who have been healed instantly. Some got worse, we won't talk about that!
When I read that Lord Jesus crowed like a rooster, fell on the floor laughing uncontrollably, rolled about on the floor or swung from the rafters of the local synagogue, I will believe the Toronto Blessing. Until then, "everything must be done in a proper and orderly manner" 1 Corinthians 14:40. I do not consider the circus of a Toronto Blessing meeting either proper or orderly.
O
I'm sorry, Gideon, but you are 100% wrong about the Toronto Blessing. I was there and it was God. You don't know what you're talking about. It started through the Vineyard movement, of which I was part.
There were some people in Toronto making animal noises. An Associate pastor at Toronto, Mark Dupont, was about to release a book on animal noises. John Wimber told him not to.
Together with Toronto's senior pastor, John Arnott, Dupont went ahead and released the book. John Wimber disassociated the Toronto Airport Vineyard Christian Fellowship over it. But what started in Toronto was a genuine move of the Holy Spirit.
What it turned into, I don't know as it's been over 20 years since I was involved in these groups. You really shouldn't talk so confidently about something I know you are so ignorant about...brother.
There were some people in Toronto making animal noises. An Associate pastor at Toronto, Mark Dupont, was about to release a book on animal noises. John Wimber told him not to.
Together with Toronto's senior pastor, John Arnott, Dupont went ahead and released the book. John Wimber disassociated the Toronto Airport Vineyard Christian Fellowship over it. But what started in Toronto was a genuine move of the Holy Spirit.
What it turned into, I don't know as it's been over 20 years since I was involved in these groups. You really shouldn't talk so confidently about something I know you are so ignorant about...brother.
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I understood it well enough. The gist of it being:
"Pentecostalism is a form of Christianity that emphasises the work of the Holy Spirit
and the direct experience of the presence of God by the believer. Pentecostals believe
that faith must be powerfully experiential, and not something found merely through
ritual or thinking. Pentecostalism is energetic and dynamic"
"Pentecostalism is a form of Christianity that emphasises the work of the Holy Spirit
and the direct experience of the presence of God by the believer. Pentecostals believe
that faith must be powerfully experiential, and not something found merely through
ritual or thinking. Pentecostalism is energetic and dynamic"
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O
I am not a Pentecostal. Contrary to popular belief, and according to John Wimber, the founder of the Vineyard, it is conservative evangelical. I was part of the leadership of a local Vineyard that was planted by the Cambridge Vineyard.
The 3 1/2 years that I was there were the best years of my life. I've never experienced God like that before or since. When the split came, it was like my parents divorced. It split my fellowship.
The Vineyard wasn't perfect, but it was the only true church home I've ever had. I was loved while I was there.
When the Holy Spirit moves in power, manifestations may or may not happen. These things are found throughout revival history literature. The thing is that you don't focus on them...you focus on Jesus. Not everyone views it like this. Shalom.
The 3 1/2 years that I was there were the best years of my life. I've never experienced God like that before or since. When the split came, it was like my parents divorced. It split my fellowship.
The Vineyard wasn't perfect, but it was the only true church home I've ever had. I was loved while I was there.
When the Holy Spirit moves in power, manifestations may or may not happen. These things are found throughout revival history literature. The thing is that you don't focus on them...you focus on Jesus. Not everyone views it like this. Shalom.
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I suspect that most every denomination might be built on sinky sandies. 
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O
"…3and with diligence to preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism;…" - Ephesians 4:3,4
You are right in what you say ... it was called the Toronto blessing because those who led up the work recognised that it was not revival but a blessing.
I never was involved in it but by golly I knew all the British leaders who were, really solid guys.
Alpha is a direct fruit of the Toronto blessing.
I never was involved in it but by golly I knew all the British leaders who were, really solid guys.
Alpha is a direct fruit of the Toronto blessing.
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My answer to you is the devil lies doggo when the church sleeps, all the splits and deceptions and fakes are there in normal times, they only come out of the woodwork when the Holy Spirit moves.
They have been there since primitive times, Fakes followed Paul around and no sooner had he left a location they set to work. In Corinth and in Galatia. You read it in the bible. Judas attached himself to Jesus.
They have been there since primitive times, Fakes followed Paul around and no sooner had he left a location they set to work. In Corinth and in Galatia. You read it in the bible. Judas attached himself to Jesus.
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