Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?

[Pilgrimshope]

First come the physical, and then the Spiritual. The physical is animated with the breath of life.

Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.”

Ruach is the Hebrew word for spirit, breath, or wind. The same breath animates all flesh.

Then there is the Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit). Those imbued with Ruach HaKodesh are
illuminated with the truth of life in Christ, being reconciled to God by grace through faith in
the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, which allows them to escape the 2nd death and attain
to life ever after, through their intimate attachment to the True Vine, Who is life Himself.

adams spirit came out from God also.

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

adam Was created in Gods image seperated clearly from animals. but then

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

…Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Adam was told this

“but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when he transgressed this word he. Brought sin and death To mankind. He changes man from what God had created and caused man to be cursed as sinners who die. It wasn’t Gods Will that’s why Gid told him not to do it , Adam ignored Gods warning of life , and followed satans word of death which led to sin and death passing to His descendants all Mankind.

this wasn’t Gods will

“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this was

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this also wasn’t Gods Will

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Satan corrupted what God created mankind to be . Christ is about redeeming us , reconciling us, stoning for us to bring us back to what Hod made Mankind to be

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember sister your saying life comes only through Christ I agree but Christ was there in the beginning also. He created adam as well that’s how Adam was called the son of God , not as christ but as we can be through Christ the same was in the beginning but Satan corrupted man and man became sinners who die

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods Will was always that man would
Love with him apart from
Sin and death it was satans idea to eat the fruit and die. Gods mercy is well
Known because of this , and he has offered a restoration and new birth for mankind who can once again be created in his image

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then man transgressed and corrupted thier image so the gospel Comes now to reconcile and restore what mankind gave away

“in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:9-10‬ ‭

remember the knowledge was forbidden in Eden they partook of corrupted them and God cast them out of where he put them . the gospel is the knowledge we are meant to partake of that redeems us and offers entrance back into Gods presence

the beginning

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after Man follows satans word the result of that choice and path

“therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the promise of Jesus Christ no more flaming sword and a new entrance

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Redemption is the biblical story restoration to what God created and his eternal Will for mankind who caused all the problems that he solves through Christ Jesus

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Brother, you and i both know 1 Cor ch15 - we both embrace it completely and fully.

This is a very simple matter: The LORD will transform our earthly bodies into Immortal Bodies = in His Image at His Coming = the RESURRECTION of the Dead in HIM = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = Isa 26:19 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3 = Heb 9:28

Not one of the Dead Saints in Christ will put on their Immortal Body until the Graves open up and their dead bodies RISE.

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I sure do

 

[DavidTree]

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I sure do

a.) Was HE speaking of the physical body?
b.) the soul/spirit of man?
c.) both?
d.) other?
e.) if (a) then why do His Blood washed Saints die and go to the grave?
f.) if HE only spoke of the soul then why does HE guarantee a Resurrection of our bodies from the grave?
g.) the ONLY TRUE answer = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3

 

[Runningman]

Then they were all the dead unbelievers who come to life and join Satan. No matter how long it takes to defeat the, they're gonna be defeated, and after that, GWTJ awaits. By the way I meant aspect of afterLIFE, sorry for the typo.

Another way to look at it is that Rev. 20-22 is Gen. 1-3 in reverse. Satan is back in bondage, curse is undone, Eden is restored, humanity is in union with God once again, and access to the the tree of life is regained. That's a general pattern of the whole bible called chiastic structure.

That’s one way to look at it.

However, how does one account for Revelation 20’s account of the devil being released from prison after the 1,000 years are finished, assembling an army from nations all around the word, called God and Magog, to come against the encampment of the saints if after the 1,000 year MK there is a resurrection of unbelievers? A world of unbelievers are still alive who are not in that resurrection.

Sure looks like the state of the world is still in a fallen state with a relatively small enclave of saints confined to an encampment. The saints look like they are severely outnumbered with their only defense being God Himself sending fire down to exterminate the enemies of the saints.

So what if the resurrection after the MK are the souls of the rest of the dead in Christ instead? That eliminates the problem of there needing to be a GWTJ of unbelievers immediately after the 1,000 MK resurrection.

So from my perspective it really looks like the first resurrection is still two groups. Actually all the hard questions everyone has asked me has forced me to look harder, pray more, and now I feel more certain than when I first wrote the OP.

 

[DavidTree]

Paul wrote three chapters concerning the Jews in Romans, from 9 to 11. That's leveling the playing field, putting Jews and Gentiles on equal footing. The plan is kind of laid out in Romans 11:25-26, that Israel will be saved, but not until the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in," that means the end of the church age. This "time of the Gentiles" didn't start with Jesus's ministry or even His birth, it started with the captivity in Babylon, but it will end at the second coming.

CORRECT: the time of the Gentiles is speaking of the Gentile Kingdoms from Daniel, Head of Gold etc.
Paul is not speaking of a Gentile church in Romans and anyone who says such a thing is teaching false doctrine, which the heresy of pre-trib teaches in order to establish their Big Lie.

Store this deep inside your heart = "What God has joined together let no man separate"

When we get to Romans 11, there is something special in this chapter - find it.

 

[DavidTree]

Me either everyone always sees hem as literal.

In Revelation Revelation 13:15 for instance those who are killed because they will not worship the image is it that they are literally killed or spiritually,symbolically ect.? First there are the ones who are deceived and worship the image these I see as spiritually dead. Then there are those who refuse to worship the image and are not spiritually dead(deceived) but instead are killed by the beast. Those who are killed then and not being spiritually dead leaves only an literal death in being killed. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-15.htm

Again in Revelation 19:21 there are those who did worship the image,received the mark/name ect. and they are killed. Now then if they are already spiritually dead in that they were deceived and worshiped the image and received the mark,name ect. then the only other manner of death(killed) would be an literal,physical death. So these are the ones being referred to in both the first and second deaths in Scripture and they both appear to be referencing an literal death and not symbolic in nature. These two Scriptures I see as extremely difficult to explain as not being literal in fulfillment,,are these those spoken of in the first and second resurrections... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/19-21.htm

Revelation is intermixed with literal and symbolic prophetic words from our LORD.

Keep this KEY in your heart Brother = Deuteronomy 4:1-2 , Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18

This KEY is the KEY that the HOLY SPIRIT seeks our hearts for.
If HE sees it there in our heart, HE then guides us into using it when studying Scripture.

Thus says the Lord:

“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
Isaiah 66:1-2

 

[Pilgrimshope]

a.) Was HE speaking of the physical body?
b.) the soul/spirit of man?
c.) both?
d.) other?
e.) if (a) then why do His Blood washed Saints die and go to the grave?
f.) if HE only spoke of the soul then why does HE guarantee a Resurrection of our bodies from the grave?
g.) the ONLY TRUE answer = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3

“Was HE speaking of the physical body?”

“it is sown a natural body; ( into death )

it is raised a spiritual body.( the resurrection of life )

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

of your are waiting for the flesh and blood natural body to be raised up , why it’s made for this lifetime that always ends in death ?

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭

you want to be part of this

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your natural body is never going to enter the kingdom of God it’s going to die and your spirit is going to return to God . you want to be born of the spirit of life so you inherit the kingdom of Jesus Christ which is not natural , not of flesh and blood


Brother even this last resurrection isn’t of them physical body it happens after this earth ends

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everything hats natural d physical as we understand it to be is going to end completely in that same moment when all natural Is destroyed the dead will be raised up for judgement you don’t want to be part of that resurrection but neither is it physical it is the spiritual bodies

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure we’re going to agree with this one I’m not expecting skeletons to come climbing out of the grave after they die and decay , but spiritual bodies to be raised up

but you don’t have to agree brother I’m okay with that but I wouldn’t accuse anyone of false witness either way

 

[DavidTree]

“Was HE speaking of the physical body?”

“it is sown a natural body; ( into death )

it is raised a spiritual body.( the resurrection of life )

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

of your are waiting for the flesh and blood natural body to be raised up , why it’s made for this lifetime that always ends in death ?

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭

you want to be part of this

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your natural body is never going to enter the kingdom of God it’s going to die and your spirit is going to return to God . you want to be born of the spirit of life so you inherit the kingdom of Jesus Christ which is not natural , not of flesh and blood


Brother even this last resurrection isn’t of them physical body it happens after this earth ends

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everything hats natural d physical as we understand it to be is going to end completely in that same moment when all natural Is destroyed the dead will be raised up for judgement you don’t want to be part of that resurrection but neither is it physical it is the spiritual bodies

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure we’re going to agree with this one I’m not expecting skeletons to come climbing out of the grave after they die and decay , but spiritual bodies to be raised up

but you don’t have to agree brother I’m okay with that but I wouldn’t accuse anyone of false witness either way

AMEN - Where is the natural body sown? = the Grave
What happens to the natural body when it is sown with FAITH into the Grave? = It is raised into a Immortal Body

KEY word TRANSFORMATION

Why are the Graves opening up - for what purpose does the LORD say HE wants those Dry Dead Bones to RISE?

Answer: #1 for HIS GLORY and #2 for the Mortal body to TRANSFORM into IMMORTALITY = 1 Cor ch15
and DO NOT forget #3 = because HE said so

 

[Mem]

Was Jesus' resurrected body not a "spiritual body?"
1Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: "The first man Adam being a living being," the last Adam a life-giving spirit.
and v.49...so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

We shouldn't forget that, in the beginning, "Adam" and "man" are synonymous

 

[Pilgrimshope]

AMEN - Where is the natural body sown? = the Grave
What happens to the natural body when it is sown with FAITH into the Grave? = It is raised into a Immortal Body

KEY word TRANSFORMATION

Why are the Graves opening up - for what purpose does the LORD say HE wants those Dry Dead Bones to RISE?

Answer: #1 for HIS GLORY and #2 for the Mortal body to TRANSFORM into IMMORTALITY = 1 Cor ch15
and DO NOT forget #3 = because HE said so

the grave is already opened for these people

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭

your looking at the second resurrection rather than the one Christ has offered

your missing all Of this stuff and dismissing it as figurative language rather than hearing and believing

“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus doesn’t ever tell his disciples thier going to die and enter the grave and be judged at the end he tells those rejecting his word that

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those who accept his word and believe he says this to

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your dismissing what he’s saying ot seems like “ well He’s just talking about the spirit “ yes he is that’s what lives and who we actually are.

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s two resurrections one for those who live now by the spirit another for those who die by the flesh and are raised up in the end.


I’m willing to believe what he’s saying as if it’s true and he’s teaching me something I wouldn’t have otherwise known

But anyways sometimes it’s alright to disagree

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Was Jesus' resurrected body not a "spiritual body?"
1Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: "The first man Adam being a living being," the last Adam a life-giving spirit.
and v.49...so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

We shouldn't forget that, in the beginning, "Adam" and "man" are synonymous

Jesus body was more than a spiritual body he also had perfect flesh and his flesh is the one atonement for mans sin. Sacrificed on the altar before God.

he gave his natural body for our spiritual eternal ones.

 

[Mem]

Jesus body was more than a spiritual body he also had perfect flesh and his flesh is the one atonement for mans sin. Sacrificed on the altar before God.

he gave his natural body for our spiritual eternal ones.

So a spiritual body doesn't include perfect flesh? think about it, adam a natural man and jesus a heavenly man, and just as we bore the image of the natural man...ie flesh corrupted with earthly mind, so we shall bear the likeness of the heavenly man, i.e. flesh incorruptible with heavenly mind.

The flesh is weak, that is prone to fall, or corruptible, toward evil but not necessarily evil in itself... right? because there is lacking the spirit, that the heavenly man possesses, to resist the temptation to sin.

 

[DavidTree]

the grave is already opened for these people

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭

your looking at the second resurrection rather than the one Christ has offered

your missing all Of this stuff and dismissing it as figurative language rather than hearing and believing

“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus doesn’t ever tell his disciples thier going to die and enter the grave and be judged at the end he tells those rejecting his word that

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those who accept his word and believe he says this to

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your dismissing what he’s saying ot seems like “ well He’s just talking about the spirit “ yes he is that’s what lives and who we actually are.

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s two resurrections one for those who live now by the spirit another for those who die by the flesh and are raised up in the end.


I’m willing to believe what he’s saying as if it’s true and he’s teaching me something I wouldn’t have otherwise known

But anyways sometimes it’s alright to disagree

My Brother Pilgrim, i AGREE with every scripture you post for me - AGREE

AGREE - We who are washed in His Blood and have His Holy Spirit will NEVER Die = our spirit/soul.

AGREE - We who are Born-Again by the Spirit of God have Eternal Life right NOW = NOW = TODAY

AGREE - We will be RAISED with IMMORTAL Bodies made into HIS Glorious Body = at His Second Coming only

Right now you are inside a physical body that is cursed by God to DEATH = only the physical body

When your physical body is claimed by DEATH it goes to the Grave and your spirit/soul goes directly to the LORD.

1 Thess 4:13-18 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So a spiritual body doesn't include perfect flesh? think about it, adam a natural man and jesus a heavenly man, and just as we bore the image of the natural man...ie flesh corrupted with earthly mind, so we shall bear the likeness of the heavenly man, i.e. flesh incorruptible with heavenly mind.

The flesh is weak, that is prone to fall, or corruptible, toward evil but not necessarily evil in itself... right? because there is lacking the spirit, that the heavenly man possesses, to resist the temptation to sin.

not for us no

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we bear the natural Mans image on earth in this present life the natural man dies like Adam. What is raised up is a spiritual body meant to live in the spiritual realm of God with angels and the spirits of just Men made perfect through Christ

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the natural man made after adams
Image , is made for life on earth. It does because of sin just like Adam . The spiritual man made after christs image is made for life in his kingdom. It is born through the gospel and never dies because Christ took our place in death.

now when our natural body dies we should look at it this way As if we are parting our temporary tabernacle which we lived in on earth

Peter was facing his own death

“Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like Paul is explaining we part from
Our body and go to the lord

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel isn’t teaching us somwe can live in the is earth again in this body again but he’s teaching us that our home is in heaven we’ve never seen it yet because we’re blinded by the natural

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this earth isn’t our home son oir earthly bodies also aren’t our home it’s all temporary so we can find Christ and enter into life with him into that place he has prepared for us. It’s not an earthly place but a heavenly one the place for spiritual bodies to dwell With him who is spirit and dwells In heaven

flesh and blood can’t see or know God it’s been the issue since Adam sinned

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and still Is

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our flesh has to die and we need to live by the spirit because our home is here in heaven as was written in Hebrews there strangers in earth but there’s a place for us in heaven

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Flesh doesn’t belong to heaven it belongs to the earth

Mans creation

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ( natural body)

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (spirit of life )

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The natural man who came firsts death


“Then shall the dust return to the dust as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See how we are going to shed the natural body and it will go back to where it came and belongs ? but the spirit which came from God returns to God ?

we’re being created in his image not adams we’re in adams image now but after this experience then atrial man is gone and the image of God remains

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the natural is just a stepping stone it’s temporary and leads to the spiritual eternal Things we were created for

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭

This creation this earth is only temporary and so is our body made of this earth only temporary flesh has no place in heaven but for the body of Christ which we are all part of

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭

I think the idea ( only my own thoughts ) the idea is what is crumbling away is the natural and when it is gone what remains is eternal

“And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, ( natiral) that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. (Spiritual)

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:27-28‬ ‭

“And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re just pilgrims passing through this world and our natural body is for this temporary place we have a spiritual body inside of we are born of the spirit that is made to leave one day this prison of flesh and enter into the kingdom

but all this is just what I personally believe and think from scripture everyone has their own faith that they understand in the end who really
Knows who’s right or wrong only faith tells us through scriptire according to what we hear

 

[Pilgrimshope]

My Brother Pilgrim, i AGREE with every scripture you post for me - AGREE

AGREE - We who are washed in His Blood and have His Holy Spirit will NEVER Die = our spirit/soul.

AGREE - We who are Born-Again by the Spirit of God have Eternal Life right NOW = NOW = TODAY

AGREE - We will be RAISED with IMMORTAL Bodies made into HIS Glorious Body = at His Second Coming only

Right now you are inside a physical body that is cursed by God to DEATH = only the physical body

When your physical body is claimed by DEATH it goes to the Grave and your spirit/soul goes directly to the LORD.

1 Thess 4:13-18 = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3

“AGREE - We will be RAISED with IMMORTAL Bodies made into HIS Glorious Body = at His Second Coming only”

no I see this part differently but it’s okay lol I’m okay with not agreeing on this subject

no worries brother

 

[Mem]

not for us no

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we bear the natural Mans image on earth in this present life the natural man dies like Adam. What is raised up is a spiritual body meant to live in the spiritual realm of God with angels and the spirits of just Men made perfect through Christ

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the natural man made after adams
Image , is made for life on earth. It does because of sin just like Adam . The spiritual man made after christs image is made for life in his kingdom. It is born through the gospel and never dies because Christ took our place in death.

now when our natural body dies we should look at it this way As if we are parting our temporary tabernacle which we lived in on earth

Peter was facing his own death

“Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like Paul is explaining we part from
Our body and go to the lord

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel isn’t teaching us somwe can live in the is earth again in this body again but he’s teaching us that our home is in heaven we’ve never seen it yet because we’re blinded by the natural

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this earth isn’t our home son oir earthly bodies also aren’t our home it’s all temporary so we can find Christ and enter into life with him into that place he has prepared for us. It’s not an earthly place but a heavenly one the place for spiritual bodies to dwell With him who is spirit and dwells In heaven

flesh and blood can’t see or know God it’s been the issue since Adam sinned

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and still Is

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our flesh has to die and we need to live by the spirit because our home is here in heaven as was written in Hebrews there strangers in earth but there’s a place for us in heaven

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Flesh doesn’t belong to heaven it belongs to the earth

Mans creation

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ( natural body)

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (spirit of life )

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The natural man who came firsts death


“Then shall the dust return to the dust as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See how we are going to shed the natural body and it will go back to where it came and belongs ? but the spirit which came from God returns to God ?

we’re being created in his image not adams we’re in adams image now but after this experience then atrial man is gone and the image of God remains

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the natural is just a stepping stone it’s temporary and leads to the spiritual eternal Things we were created for

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭

This creation this earth is only temporary and so is our body made of this earth only temporary flesh has no place in heaven but for the body of Christ which we are all part of

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭

I think the idea ( only my own thoughts ) the idea is what is crumbling away is the natural and when it is gone what remains is eternal

“And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, ( natiral) that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. (Spiritual)

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:27-28‬ ‭

“And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re just pilgrims passing through this world and our natural body is for this temporary place we have a spiritual body inside of we are born of the spirit that is made to leave one day this prison of flesh and enter into the kingdom

but all this is just what I personally believe and think from scripture everyone has their own faith that they understand in the end who really
Knows who’s right or wrong only faith tells us through scriptire according to what we hear

I understand how you've come to the conclusion you've reached, and I can't say that you are absolutely wrong nor absolutely right. Wherein to me it seems we've only to wait for death to be 'physically present' in that expected kingdom rather than pass through death and/while waiting for the kingdom to come.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So a spiritual body doesn't include perfect flesh? think about it, adam a natural man and jesus a heavenly man, and just as we bore the image of the natural man...ie flesh corrupted with earthly mind, so we shall bear the likeness of the heavenly man, i.e. flesh incorruptible with heavenly mind.

The flesh is weak, that is prone to fall, or corruptible, toward evil but not necessarily evil in itself... right? because there is lacking the spirit, that the heavenly man possesses, to resist the temptation to sin.

the reason I was saying Jesus was more than spirit and mentioned his flesh as the one perfect offering to God is this

“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his flesh was perfect he is the one flesh sacrifice acceptable to god. It is why we can be born of the spirit and receive a new life by that spirit and enter into the kingdom but our flesh is corrupt and has no inheritance

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his flesh saw no decay our natural bodies all decay at death it’s one of the ugliest processes known to man and shows the terrible nature of sin the decaying and rotting of our flesh it’s best to leave it behind and live in the perfected spiritual bodies were offered through Christ

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I understand how you've come to the conclusion you've reached, and I can't say that you are absolutely wrong nor absolutely right. Wherein to me it seems we've only to wait for death to be 'physically present' in that expected kingdom rather than pass through death and/while waiting for the kingdom to come.

yes I believe we’ll be actually present also just not as we understand physical , maybe we’re just understanding to term physical differently or spirit differently

either way I’m glad there’s no
Offense I can also see why others come to thier conclusions and am never saying I’m right and anyone else is wrong we’re all learning and know different thkngs but we also evolve constantly in understanding

we for sure are all On the right path seeking God I appreciate your good spirit God bless and keep you always whether physical or spiritual 🙂

 

[Mem]

we for sure are all On the right path seeking God I appreciate your good spirit God bless and keep you always whether physical or spiritual 🙂

1Cor 15:51
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

 

[Mem]

Thank ye all for suffering with me. I was getting used to my witness being taken at 50% discount and yous go and gave it full consideration