Abortion

[TomH]

If anyone could take the time to read the following transcript and comment it would be very helpful. All I need to know is if the speaker is advocating pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neutral? I am trying to be a peace maker among people who disagree about how to interpret it.

When reading these verses [Isaiah 58:6-7] we see that the people with power were inclined to treat others like beast of burden. They were inclined to victimize their own people and they were inclined to use the situation to gain for themselves cheap land and cheap labor as they allow the poor to forfeit their lands and their homes and their freedom.
Today the powerful are serving their own interests under the disguise of God’s righteousness. Serving self-interests is about what works for me and what resonates with my own experiences. So to protect what works for me, and what resonates with my own experiences, systems and structures are established to insure that my rights, my privileges, and my beliefs are protected. But this is often done at the expense of what works for others and what resonates with other people’s experiences.
We see this in the arguments surrounding the topic of abortion, and also, the topic of being angry. You see those who claim to be “Pro-Life” say I think abortion rights should be outlawed. But this claim is normally at the expense of interfering with other’s rights. And the Pro-Lifers use scriptures to support their claim.
Now let me preface this. I am a man, I am a person, I am a believer of God that believes in life. I don’t believe, personally, in abortion. But I am too also a biblical theologian. And the bible shows me that God gives everybody free will. And if I interfere with other’s free will then I am acting as God, instead of acting for God. You see, the failure of the argument is God gives free will.

 

[Runningman]

If anyone could take the time to read the following transcript and comment it would be very helpful. All I need to know is if the speaker is advocating pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neutral? I am trying to be a peace maker among people who disagree about how to interpret it.

When reading these verses [Isaiah 58:6-7] we see that the people with power were inclined to treat others like beast of burden. They were inclined to victimize their own people and they were inclined to use the situation to gain for themselves cheap land and cheap labor as they allow the poor to forfeit their lands and their homes and their freedom.
Today the powerful are serving their own interests under the disguise of God’s righteousness. Serving self-interests is about what works for me and what resonates with my own experiences. So to protect what works for me, and what resonates with my own experiences, systems and structures are established to insure that my rights, my privileges, and my beliefs are protected. But this is often done at the expense of what works for others and what resonates with other people’s experiences.
We see this in the arguments surrounding the topic of abortion, and also, the topic of being angry. You see those who claim to be “Pro-Life” say I think abortion rights should be outlawed. But this claim is normally at the expense of interfering with other’s rights. And the Pro-Lifers use scriptures to support their claim.
Now let me preface this. I am a man, I am a person, I am a believer of God that believes in life. I don’t believe, personally, in abortion. But I am too also a biblical theologian. And the bible shows me that God gives everybody free will. And if I interfere with other’s free will then I am acting as God, instead of acting for God. You see, the failure of the argument is God gives free will.

The transcript is a pro-choice argument at face value. However, the speaker said his or her personal belief is pro-life, but that he or she believes others have a right to be pro-abortion because of free will.

This isn’t a complete argument because it doesn’t capture the expectations that God has for how people should use their free will. Without concluding this argument with a call to ceasing all abortions immediately, because God commands people to repent, effectually makes this a pro-abortion transcript.

 

[Mem]

If anyone could take the time to read the following transcript and comment it would be very helpful. All I need to know is if the speaker is advocating pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neutral? I am trying to be a peace maker among people who disagree about how to interpret it.

When reading these verses [Isaiah 58:6-7] we see that the people with power were inclined to treat others like beast of burden. They were inclined to victimize their own people and they were inclined to use the situation to gain for themselves cheap land and cheap labor as they allow the poor to forfeit their lands and their homes and their freedom.
Today the powerful are serving their own interests under the disguise of God’s righteousness. Serving self-interests is about what works for me and what resonates with my own experiences. So to protect what works for me, and what resonates with my own experiences, systems and structures are established to insure that my rights, my privileges, and my beliefs are protected. But this is often done at the expense of what works for others and what resonates with other people’s experiences.
We see this in the arguments surrounding the topic of abortion, and also, the topic of being angry. You see those who claim to be “Pro-Life” say I think abortion rights should be outlawed. But this claim is normally at the expense of interfering with other’s rights. And the Pro-Lifers use scriptures to support their claim.
Now let me preface this. I am a man, I am a person, I am a believer of God that believes in life. I don’t believe, personally, in abortion. But I am too also a biblical theologian. And the bible shows me that God gives everybody free will. And if I interfere with other’s free will then I am acting as God, instead of acting for God. You see, the failure of the argument is God gives free will.

He is advocating for Pro-Choice from a Pro-Life standpoint, so I would say he's trying to sit on the neutral fence but leaning toward Pro-Choice, renaming it Pro-Free Will.
However, in reality, he is advocating the woman's free-will take precedent over the child's since, yes, God does give free will to all He gives life to first of all. Why should a woman have any right, which is inherently a responsibility, to interfere will the child' will seeing she conceived' it in irresponsibility, knowing the risk of conceiving that life.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

If anyone could take the time to read the following transcript and comment it would be very helpful. All I need to know is if the speaker is advocating pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neutral? I am trying to be a peace maker among people who disagree about how to interpret it.

When reading these verses [Isaiah 58:6-7] we see that the people with power were inclined to treat others like beast of burden. They were inclined to victimize their own people and they were inclined to use the situation to gain for themselves cheap land and cheap labor as they allow the poor to forfeit their lands and their homes and their freedom.
Today the powerful are serving their own interests under the disguise of God’s righteousness. Serving self-interests is about what works for me and what resonates with my own experiences. So to protect what works for me, and what resonates with my own experiences, systems and structures are established to insure that my rights, my privileges, and my beliefs are protected. But this is often done at the expense of what works for others and what resonates with other people’s experiences.
We see this in the arguments surrounding the topic of abortion, and also, the topic of being angry. You see those who claim to be “Pro-Life” say I think abortion rights should be outlawed. But this claim is normally at the expense of interfering with other’s rights. And the Pro-Lifers use scriptures to support their claim.
Now let me preface this. I am a man, I am a person, I am a believer of God that believes in life. I don’t believe, personally, in abortion. But I am too also a biblical theologian. And the bible shows me that God gives everybody free will. And if I interfere with other’s free will then I am acting as God, instead of acting for God. You see, the failure of the argument is God gives free will.

By neutrality on evil he has taken the side of evil. Evil isn't neutral. It is right or wrong. A murder may have the choice to kill but that doesn't give them the right to tread on others rights.

A woman does not have the right to kill her child. If she chooses then she should be treated like the one who kills an adult.

 

[Live4Him2]

If anyone could take the time to read the following transcript and comment it would be very helpful. All I need to know is if the speaker is advocating pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neutral? I am trying to be a peace maker among people who disagree about how to interpret it.

When reading these verses [Isaiah 58:6-7] we see that the people with power were inclined to treat others like beast of burden. They were inclined to victimize their own people and they were inclined to use the situation to gain for themselves cheap land and cheap labor as they allow the poor to forfeit their lands and their homes and their freedom.
Today the powerful are serving their own interests under the disguise of God’s righteousness. Serving self-interests is about what works for me and what resonates with my own experiences. So to protect what works for me, and what resonates with my own experiences, systems and structures are established to insure that my rights, my privileges, and my beliefs are protected. But this is often done at the expense of what works for others and what resonates with other people’s experiences.
We see this in the arguments surrounding the topic of abortion, and also, the topic of being angry. You see those who claim to be “Pro-Life” say I think abortion rights should be outlawed. But this claim is normally at the expense of interfering with other’s rights. And the Pro-Lifers use scriptures to support their claim.
Now let me preface this. I am a man, I am a person, I am a believer of God that believes in life. I don’t believe, personally, in abortion. But I am too also a biblical theologian. And the bible shows me that God gives everybody free will. And if I interfere with other’s free will then I am acting as God, instead of acting for God. You see, the failure of the argument is God gives free will.

It seems to me that this man is basically saying that you can't legislate morality, and, in a sense, that's true.

It's kind of like the difference between the Old Testament law which was outwardly written upon two tables of stone (probably representative of the stony hearts of people) and the New Testament which needs to be written inwardly upon the fleshy tables of our hearts.

In other words, if someone just makes an outward law prohibiting abortion, then many of those who might submit to it would still be hostile against it in their hearts.

Salvation is a matter of the heart, and we need to be seeking to change people's heart via the gospel message.

Anyhow, I think that's what he was hinting at.

 

[Lanolin]

think its trying to understand pro-choice from a pro-life standpoint

what I always NEVER get from the abortion debate is the (potential) fathers side of it. A pregnant mother needs the father to help her give birth and provide, and to name the child. If he is not willing to do so, what can she actually do. Does she have any better options? Most often, there is no other option.

so to say its JUST the mothers responsibilty is wrong. TWO made the baby.

also, with abortion it is the abortionist who kills the baby, so its sort of more like a hitman job than the mother actually doing the killing. BecUse its done BEFORE birth somehow its not seen as slaughter though its not exactly seen as mercy or sacrifice either.

 

[Lanolin]

some people might remember the old 80s Madonna song, papa dont preach, its about a young unmarried pregnant girl who decides to keep her baby.

Even though she knows it might be hard, shes willing to do so. What she doesnt need is her papa preaching at her.

 

[TheLearner]

What Christian ministries handle adoption?

 

[jennymae]

Why’s women choosing not to let a child live? I think it’s a question of maturity on her part and of maturity of her surroundings. We should never condemn a pregnant woman. We should be celebrating the new life. Regardless of how she got pregnant. Until then we’re all a part of the ongoing baby killing.

 

[Beckie]

Murder is murder i dont understand how there can be a neutral view.

 

[Lanolin]

Murder is murder i dont understand how there can be a neutral view.

apparently before a child is born its not murder its termination, but after they are born like if you drown them or poison them or throw them off a cliff its murder

even though the baby had a heartbeat and is actually ALIVE inside the womb.

 

[Lanolin]

lawyers can twist words to make it all sorts of things with their legalese.

Roe VS Wade was really a battle between wealthy lawyers /attorneys not the woman in question ('Jane Roe')

regarding children being a burden, its only seems to be the case when the father does nothing to support the children.

 

[Lanolin]

Sarah Weddington, the lawyer behind the Roe vs Wade case, had an illegal abortion in Mexico

it wasnt revealed until 1992 years after that case in 1973

At the time, in 1970s I guess women who wanted an abortion would travel to another country so they wouldnt be charged as a criminal. I think it was the same in nz, women would go to australia. I dont know if the reverse happened and australians went to nz to have their abortions.

?!
If its restricted in one country I am supposing anyone whos desperate to kill their child would just go to another.
It sounds terrible but...that is reality. I dont know if those crimes ever got found out though. People just seem to accept that when someone has one, or they just dont tell anyone (its kept hushed up) I mean who can tell if a womans mental state is shot because shes had an abortion OR she might become a mother anyway and STILL hate her child.

 

[jennymae]

apparently before a child is born its not murder its termination, but after they are born like if you drown them or poison them or throw them off a cliff its murder

even though the baby had a heartbeat and is actually ALIVE inside the womb.

Yeah, it’s like saying a murder is okay inside of a building but a felony if it’s committed on the outside of that same building.

People can twist it which way they want but that won’t change the fact that a person who is alive is being killed.

Just imagine, you’re carrying a life in your womb and then you just kill that life. Even if they are using the neutral word “abortion”, which makes it all look like a technical procedure, it is what it is…a kill.

 

[Oblio]

If anyone could take the time to read the following transcript and comment it would be very helpful. All I need to know is if the speaker is advocating pro-Life, pro-Choice, or neutral? I am trying to be a peace maker among people who disagree about how to interpret it.

When reading these verses [Isaiah 58:6-7] we see that the people with power were inclined to treat others like beast of burden. They were inclined to victimize their own people and they were inclined to use the situation to gain for themselves cheap land and cheap labor as they allow the poor to forfeit their lands and their homes and their freedom.
Today the powerful are serving their own interests under the disguise of God’s righteousness. Serving self-interests is about what works for me and what resonates with my own experiences. So to protect what works for me, and what resonates with my own experiences, systems and structures are established to insure that my rights, my privileges, and my beliefs are protected. But this is often done at the expense of what works for others and what resonates with other people’s experiences.
We see this in the arguments surrounding the topic of abortion, and also, the topic of being angry. You see those who claim to be “Pro-Life” say I think abortion rights should be outlawed. But this claim is normally at the expense of interfering with other’s rights. And the Pro-Lifers use scriptures to support their claim.
Now let me preface this. I am a man, I am a person, I am a believer of God that believes in life. I don’t believe, personally, in abortion. But I am too also a biblical theologian. And the bible shows me that God gives everybody free will. And if I interfere with other’s free will then I am acting as God, instead of acting for God. You see, the failure of the argument is God gives free will.

Hi, Tom. Welcome to Christian Chat. As much as I hate abortion and believe it is murder, I agree with you concerning free will.
I'm not God...I'm just one little man who doesn't like others trying to force their thinking on him.
Long ago, I found myself in a situation where I could continue my college and abort my unborn baby, or I could get a job in a warehouse and save my child. I chose the latter.
As a result, I have a serious spinal cord injury with bilateral sciatica, and Lupus with fibromyalgia. Both conditions are work-related. I've been chronically ill and in pain for many years. But I have a son who has given me 3 grandchildren.
I don't just shoot my mouth off, like many do.
"You may disagree with me, but I'll defend your right to disagree with me." I say this as a result of taking to heart, "Do to others as you would have them do to you." - John 6:31

 

[jennymae]

Hi, Tom. Welcome to Christian Chat. As much as I hate abortion and believe it is murder, I agree with you concerning free will.
I'm not God...I'm just one little man who doesn't like others trying to force their thinking on him.
Long ago, I found myself in a situation where I could continue my college and abort my unborn baby, or I could get a job in a warehouse and save my child. I chose the latter.
As a result, I have a serious spinal cord injury with bilateral sciatica, and Lupus with fibromyalgia. Both conditions are work-related. I've been chronically ill and in pain for many years. But I have a son who has given me 3 grandchildren.
I don't just shoot my mouth off, like many do.
"You may disagree with me, but I'll defend your right to disagree with me." I say this as a result of taking to heart, "Do to others as you would have them do to you." - John 6:31

Very wise words.

 

[Seeking-Christ]

I hate the abortion debate. If Human's really cared about Human's like they should, then there would always be someone willing to help the mother and child. This is just how evil humanity without Christ is! We climb all over each other, we ignore each other, and we kill each other.

 

[tobewholeagain]

Who is pushing the hardest to ban abortions?

Jewish population at lowest percentage since founding of Israel
Close to the establishment of the state, the Jewish percentage of the population stood at 82.1%, while today it stands at only 73.9%.
https://tinyurl.com/3fjduh72

Europe’s Jewish population down 60% since 1970, as low as it was 1,000 years ago
https://tinyurl.com/bdt8v2j9

Jewish Population on the Decline in America
https://tinyurl.com/2p95pr3p

World Jewish population drops by 300,000 to 12.9 million
https://tinyurl.com/n33erpbw

Babies, we want babies NOW!!!

 

[gb9]

I hate the abortion debate. If Human's really cared about Human's like they should, then there would always be someone willing to help the mother and child. This is just how evil humanity without Christ is! We climb all over each other, we ignore each other, and we kill each other.

the fact that it is even a debate shows the sad, sick state of the world.

 

[Beckie]

Antifa on Thursday reportedly attacked a pregnancy center in Portland just days after the Supreme Court leaked a document that revealed Roe v. Wade may be overturned.

I hate the abortion debate. If Human's really cared about Human's like they should, then there would always be someone willing to help the mother and child. This is just how evil humanity without Christ is! We climb all over each other, we ignore each other, and we kill each other.

There are folks around to help. Many today use the internet for finding places , most search engines hide the info that they do not agree with. I did not include the article with the bolded headline because of the language.