Is the human soul immortal?
- Thread starter RR
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
We were getting somewhere but you did not answer the question as to what body came out of the grave/tomb when Jesus rose from the dead.
The scripture does say Jesus died = 1 Cor 15:1-3
"Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,"
your trying to equate mans sinful body with Jesus perfect body there’s no comparison . Jesus only died because we all sinned it was an atonement a perfect atonement. He poured out sll
His perfect blood because of our sinful flesh in order to create spiritual people that aren’t like this
“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
temptation comes through the flesh and corrupts the spirit. We can’t keep moor flesh it’s condemned by adams cirse and never agrees with the spirit it’s contended with the spirit always
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
Galatians 5:17
they are contradictory in every way and will never agree.
but yes to entertain your bizarre question that has no relation to what we’re discussing of course Jesus died for our sins every Christian has to believe that or they have no stoning sacrifice.
This doesn’t relate to your body or mine we’ve sinned Jesus didn’t like I was saying it’s fulfillment of prophecy that his flesh didn’t decay and know corruption because he never sinned if he had sinned he wouldn’t have risen as he did. Did you notice when he rises up there’s no more blood but he is “ flesh and bone “ it’s because he gave all his blood for us so we can become spiritual beings
“And as we have borne the image of the earthy, ( this natural life we live and die like Adam )
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”( heaven is for spiritual beings not natural ones )
1 Corinthians 15:49 KJV
of your expecting to enter into the spiritual kingdom of Jesus Christ you need to let go of the idea flesh and blood are inheriting it that’s the image of Adam made of dust inhabited by the living spirit . When we die the flesh dies and decays away because we sinned , the spirit is what lives and returns to God
our flesh is not Jesus flesh he’s the only sacrifice of atonement that’s why his flesh rose he had no sin he died because we all do, in order to deliver us from the flesh body of death and give us new life in the spirit that doesn’t contradict the spirit like the flesh does.
this whole earthly creation is going to be destroyed and eternally forgotten our flesh is part of the earth our spirit is of God and will endure.
It isnt that complex the flesh has always been the issue in Christ it’s being removed in death and the spirit within will live on.
everything of this earth is going to die our flesh dies from the moment we’re born until its dead and returns to the dust it was before mans body was created. This earth and everything of it is condemned to death and bekng forgotten forever but there’s a new thing God is doing he has been for a long time
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
Isaiah 65:17 KJV
our body is made of the earth it’s cirses to pass away forever
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
Revelation 21:1 KJV
we can’t take what’s of this world with us we have to be born anew of the gospel Tom inherit Gods promises a new heaven and new earth requires new people to inhabit it
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
2 Corinthians 5:17
it’s already new it’s just within us and won’t come forth until our flesh dies and we leave this tabernacle behind us
“Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.”
2 Peter 1:13-14 KJV
Peter is talking about his ear to my body Like Paul is also
“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
2 Corinthians 5:6, 8 KJV
we can’t be in our flesh body forever it’s temporary it dies and decays and becomes the earthly material it’s made of all the life is in the spirit it’s why Adam didn’t move or do anything until the spirit was placed into him by God.
we have to be born of the spiritual salvation Jesus has offered us a new body not perishable , not in contradiction with the spirit because it is the spiritual body
we live in this life in the form we are in now flesh and blood death all around us , we’re not repeating this process again he has created a better thing for us who hear and believe we lived as the earthly man and we eventually die like Adam . we’re being created in Christ to be the spiritual men made for the heavens and new creation to come later
AGREE
The minor difference is, you do not accept the Scripture, which says that the dead will rise out of the graves = just as the Lord's body rose from the grave.
When these bodies of ours rise from the grave they will be transformed into His Glorious Image.
Unless, i misunderstood you, did you not state that our bodies do not rise???
Do you think that the bodies stay in the grave at His Coming???
“The minor difference is, you do not accept the Scripture, which says that the dead will rise out of the graves = just as the Lord's body rose from the grave.”
that’s not true it’s that you can’t hear what I’m saying I accept this
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you,( #2)The hour is coming, and (#1) now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
John 5:24-25
I accept both of the resurrections offered in the gospel you are only seeing this one which is the last resurrection when the dead are raised as spiritual bodies
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
I accept both resurrections I just understand this part
“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
1 Corinthians 15:44 KJV
those in the grave are this who didn’t do this in life
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
that’s one resurrection “ passing from death To life “ the one that now is
this is the other one who refused to hear his word in life Theybstull are going to hear his word the only difference is they hear it at the end the same they refused in life so they are left in the grave thier spiritual body is asleep like in the ot
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
The difference is your not acknolwedging the first resurrection and including those who never die with those in thier graves.
this is how we end up waiting in a grave till the end
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
John 12:48 KJV
that is the last resurrection because again they didn’t do this
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
It’s like you don’t understand what faith is and who spoke it.
we can either hear his word Jesus word in the gospel specifically this word
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
and follow his word and let this happen
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: ( and be in the grave )
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” ( and never enter the grave with the body )
Romans 8:13 KJV
There are two resurrections one now by faith , for the faithful or one later for those who refuse to accept his word now in life. All Christians don’t ever learn his word and keep it those who do aren’t entering a grave with thier dead body that’s bound to decay
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
those folks are never entering the grave they only part from the dead body and leave it behind their of the first resurrection made priests in heaven already translated into the spirit to all body those who refuse that part have to wait in the grave and for the last resurrection
I acknowledge both I just don’t link them together and try to make one out of two , nor do I reject the word of Jesus and his promise. Not do make up my own view of how we’re bekng our back into a dead decayed body some day to be raised up again and translated into spirit again ect
it’s just what it says there is a resurrection in Christ for his disciples meaning those who hear , believe and follow his word and then there’s another based on the other promises like this one who will be saved in the end
“But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:8-9, 13 KJV
that’s not the same as keeping his words and never entering death it is the last resurrection at the white throne they are written in the book of life they aren’t the ones who received judgement beforehand and partook of the foret resirrection there’s two separate resurrections
one here
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
and then one here
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
we can accept the judgement now or later in the grave that’s what gives life accepting his word that’s how we are raised up from death hearing and believing the gospel. We can take part i. It now and never enter the grave as our body does but instead let from the body and be present with the lord
or we can refuse to accept his judgement now and be raised up later by his word and judged and those in that day written in the book of life having believed but never heard the depth of his word will be saved as “those escaping through the flames “
it’s better to come to the first resurrection and. It be part of the last one to dwell on heaven rather than rest in a grave or some nasty spiritual place of death until the end
there are two resurrections all of peoples spiritual bodies none of the decayed flesh
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you,( #2)The hour is coming, and (#1) now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
John 5:24-25
This is TRUE everytime a soul is Born-Again by the LIVING SPIRIT of God.
This is also TRUE at His Second Coming and the Resurrection when the Graves Open and the Dead in Christ RISE.
1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have died, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have died in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
If the definition of a soul is confined to a living person, why wouldn't scripture then simply say that God made Adam a soul? Why was there a distinction made? You can go around the possibility that there is a distinction because there is such a thing as a dead soul (person) but there is even just the slightest possibility all the same. It's okay to just consider it because, "with God nothing is impossible."
Look at this verse and consider just the possibility that John is speaking of a vision of dead souls.... go ahead, at least try.
Rev 20:5 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
So you have two separate groups of saved, the elite saved and the common saved?
The first resurrection are those who rise to everlasting life, a good judgment of innocent because they are in Christ, they are all His sheep, both of this and the other flock, and the second group (the rest of the dead that 'shall not live again until the thousand years were finished') rise to judgment by the law, because they are not in Christ, which is a bad judgment.
They're planted, whether in dirt, ash, tiger, or shark.
I don't want to assume but, since you telling me this needs to be done, it's a rather strong suggestion that I haven't. Why not just come out and say that?
A soul is made up of a body, a spirit, and a mind.
A mind is your memories of the sum total of experiences as you travel through life. It is where your emotions and logic meet together. Often referred to as your heart.
Your spirit is your demeanor. Happy, content, misery, and humility are defining of this aspect. As well as avarice and other sinful desires are within a person's spirit.
A body....well it is rather self explanatory. The soul who sins shall die and afterwards face judgment. For all have sinned and the wages of sin is death.
Only Lazarus got to do this twice...everyone else does it once.
We, the God chasers, will get a new body capable of living in heaven...one to house our mind and spirit.
God is omnipotent. Meaning our existence is not at God's acquiesce but his active support. The notion that God is going to torture people for eternity is kinda incongruous with the rest of his character. However...the language used does lend itself to people being so horrified at their own behavior (while being judged) that they would rather die than enter Heaven.
A mind is your memories of the sum total of experiences as you travel through life. It is where your emotions and logic meet together. Often referred to as your heart.
Your spirit is your demeanor. Happy, content, misery, and humility are defining of this aspect. As well as avarice and other sinful desires are within a person's spirit.
A body....well it is rather self explanatory. The soul who sins shall die and afterwards face judgment. For all have sinned and the wages of sin is death.
Only Lazarus got to do this twice...everyone else does it once.
We, the God chasers, will get a new body capable of living in heaven...one to house our mind and spirit.
God is omnipotent. Meaning our existence is not at God's acquiesce but his active support. The notion that God is going to torture people for eternity is kinda incongruous with the rest of his character. However...the language used does lend itself to people being so horrified at their own behavior (while being judged) that they would rather die than enter Heaven.
John said, I saw the souls of those who (died)... how did he know they had been beheaded?
And then it says, "...And they came to life..."
but note what it does not say, "And I saw the (living) souls of those who were beheaded"
I know most people probably disagree with this, but I have a dissertation on why the second group (the rest of the dead that 'shall not live again until the thousand years were finished') are actually the second group of the first resurrection of saints. I believe you participated in that thread so I won't link it here. I have found no biblical disharmony with it, but I have found many problems with the second group being not in Christ. I won't go into great detail again, but I ask you just give it some consideration.
The strongest argument for your position are that this group is raised and judged whether they did good or whether they did bad in their bodies. So, I don't know if this will be "in the blink of an eye" considering their individual books of life, (the books that were opened), are going to be reviewed, along with the (Lamb's) Book of Life. Look at the final judgment tho... And those not found in the (Lamb's) Book of Life are thrown into the lake of fire. Apparently, or so to me, their deeds will be compared to Jesus' and found wanting.
The souls who died are the living souls in Christ.
The Scripture is not going to say, i saw the bodies of those who died, because the body is just a temporary vehicle/tent which is firmly established beforehand in the Scripture prior to Revelation.
What many confuse themselves with is not having/using/availing themself with the Complete Picture of Understanding that comes from studying and knowing the Word.
Do not take this as, nor assume, that i am suggesting anything negative or demeaning towards you - No i am not.
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Revelation ch6
Ok, So they were told to go back to sleep (rest) for a little while longer, which many argue is a euphemism for death, This is a vision remember, John said he didn't know whether he was there physically, that is because it felt as though he was but he wasn't confident in stating that as the being the case in truth.
I'm going to be found in the Lamb's Book of Life, and because of that, my deeds have been blotted out with His blood, never to be remembered. So I will be among those judged to the resurrection to eternal life in the 'twinkling of an eye" group. Somewhere within Jesus' Book of Life, it is written that spoke to me, revealed his love for me, embraced my response, and saved me at such place and so and so time.
My Dear Sister,
The LORD never told them to go back to sleep/death.
#1. They were never asleep/dead = except their physical bodies which are in the grave
#2. They were not woken from a state of sleep/death
#3. They are fully conscious and aware
#4. The are experiencing Eternal Life just as Spoken and promised by the LORD
#5. Everyday more are added to where they become the culmination we see in chapter 19