John Calvin's Worst Heresy.

[Scotth1960]

Dear friends,
Although the following website contains a Roman Catholic article, it is a Catholic teaching that agrees with Eastern Orthodox Christian teaching. This should not surprise us, because for 1,054 years, the Roman papal church and the (Constantinopolitan) Orthodox Church were
in communion together with each other.
See:
John Calvin's worst heresy: That Christ Suffered in Hell Sept. 15, 2009 by Taylor Marshall
John Calvin’s Worst Heresy: That Christ Suffered in Hell | Called to Communion


God save us all in Christ Jesus from every form of Calvinism; Amen. In Erie PA USA July 2, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 

[jimmydiggs]

John Calvin's Worst Heresy - Not agreeing with ScottH.

 

[Scotth1960]

John Calvin's Worst Heresy - Not agreeing with ScottH.

That's uncalled for. I don't engage in personal attacks; so why do you make it personal, about me (?) Is it okay what John Calvin did? I am not without sin. That doesn't mean it is wrong to hold Calvin accountable for murdering Miguel Servetus. If we cannot hold men accountable because they act, according to their belief, in the name of God, then Christianity can be anything, and men can slaughter and murder each other all over the place in the "name of Jesus Christ". It matters not that they do it in Christ's name. It is wrong to murder. It's one of the 10 commandments. John Calvin, in his insistence of laying down "the law" in Geneva Switzerland, should have known better. I guess any violence is justified if you get your theology from Augustine of Hippo. The persecution of heretics seems also to be an Augustinian idea. So much of what is wrong in Western Christendom can be traced to the false dualistic philosophy of Augustine of Hippo (354-430), and John Calvin (1509-1564) as a faithful follower not of the NT, but of Augustine of Hippo. Go figure! In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[jimmydiggs]

That's uncalled for. I don't engage in personal attacks; so why do you make it personal, about me (?) Is it okay what John Calvin did? I am not without sin. That doesn't mean it is wrong to hold Calvin accountable for murdering Miguel Servetus. If we cannot hold men accountable because they act, according to their belief, in the name of God, then Christianity can be anything, and men can slaughter and murder each other all over the place in the "name of Jesus Christ". It matters not that they do it in Christ's name. It is wrong to murder. It's one of the 10 commandments. John Calvin, in his insistence of laying down "the law" in Geneva Switzerland, should have known better. I guess any violence is justified if you get your theology from Augustine of Hippo. The persecution of heretics seems also to be an Augustinian idea. So much of what is wrong in Western Christendom can be traced to the false dualistic philosophy of Augustine of Hippo (354-430), and John Calvin (1509-1564) as a faithful follower not of the NT, but of Augustine of Hippo. Go figure! In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

You kind of proved my point.

 

[Zilla64007]

ad hominem attacks are not allowed, jimmydiggs

personally, i think Michael Servetus was John Calvin's worst enemy, besides the Bible of course...

and scotth is right. all Calvinist scholars admit that Luther got his teachings from Augustine. Calvin admits he got his teachings from Augustine, and Luther admits Calvin got his teachings from Augustine, AND admits that the concepts of Calvinism did not exist in the church prior to Augustine

 

[jimmydiggs]

ad hominem attacks are not allowed, jimmydiggs

personally, i think Michael Servetus was John Calvin's worst enemy, besides the Bible of course...

How is it an ad hominem attack?

EDIT: To clarify, my point in posting it is that this is the only thing I've ever seen ScottH post on. That and them dirty protesting catholics of course. (I'm being facetious, don't strawman this)

EDIT2: Also, I'm not a Calvinist, so I have no personal investment in John Calvin.

 

[Zilla64007]

How is it an ad hominem attack?

instead of refuting his post with evidence that says otherwise, you personally attacked him by calling him John Calvin's worst enemy...

to be blunt, John Calvin had a few "enemies", if you can call them that... Servetus was one of them, the Catholic church, the Anabaptists (who were persecuted and killed by Calvinists)...

 

[DiscipleWilliam]

Scott you cannot fool us, we all know that your a closet Calvinist

 

[Zilla64007]

EDIT: To clarify, my point in posting it is that this is the only thing I've ever seen ScottH post on. That and them dirty protesting catholics of course. (I'm being facetious, don't strawman this)

im not going to strawman it... but maybe Calvinism in general is what is on scotth's heart right now... i know personally for me, it's been heavily on my heart as of late. I'm not a Calvinist either... the more I study non-Calvinism and Armianism, the more I'm intrigued as to why this belief system has continued on for so long...

EDIT2: Also, I'm not a Calvinist, so I have no personal investment in John Calvin.

then why did you insult him?... personally, i enjoy the posts scotth has to offer, even if he is a Catholic... i can't stand Catholicism in any way, shape or form in it's current state, but i will still show love to the guy either way...


and i read the op wrong... it says heresy... not enemy my bad
to clear this up on my part, i think Calvin's worst heresy was basing his entire theology on the works of Augustine

 

[Scotth1960]

How is it an ad hominem attack?

EDIT: To clarify, my point in posting it is that this is the only thing I've ever seen ScottH post on. That and them dirty protesting catholics of course. (I'm being facetious, don't strawman this)

Jimmydiggs, If I'm wrong, do the correcting of me in a spirit of love. If John Calvin should be left alone and not held accountable for the mistakes he made, then all of the rest of us can get away for so much. If we're held accountable for what we have done, then John Calvin must be held accountable for his mistakes and sins too. I am sure I have done things just as bad as Calvin did. What I am also certain is that I don't believe in having people burned to death at the stake for committing heresy. Under Calvin's own theory, he would have to be put to death for teaching the heresy that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, which is bad, and a heresy that's perhaps even worse teaching that God predestines some people to Heaven while He also predestines some other people to hell. At any rate, I hope God will have mercy upon John Calvin, for it is not right to persecute people even when they commit heresy. And I have no doubt whatsoever but that Michael Servetus's theology was heretical, truly, because he denied the Holy Trinity, and he was either some kind of Unitarian or Arian, or both. God save us all. Your ad hominem attack on me was saying something like John Calvin's mistake was disagreeing with me. That's impossible. Calvin is long gone, and I don't know the man. And he wouldn't be able to agree or disagree with me, he lived in a different century.
At any rate, he probably would disagree with both you and me, and call us both heretics, and have us burned to death. In Erie PA USA July 2, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington
PS Not to criticize you personally, but you seem to think being a Christian has a lot to do with what video you watch on You Tube. Well, according to your faith, it will be for you.
What video on You Tube do you believe expresses a true Christian faith? By what tradition will you interpret Scripture?
God bless you.

 

[jimmydiggs]

instead of refuting his post with evidence that says otherwise, you personally attacked him by calling him John Calvin's worst enemy...

No, I didn't call him John Calvin's worst enemy. If anything is to be drawn from implication, I suppose you could argue that I was implying ScottH has a vendetta against Calvinism.

I have no interest in refuting Scott. I really don't care about doctrinal differences that make no real difference.

to be blunt, John Calvin had a few "enemies", if you can call them that... Servetus was one of them, the Catholic church, the Anabaptists (who were persecuted and killed by Calvinists)...

We're all so innocent I don't know what theological background you come from, but I don't think the Catholics have a clean sheet either. I don't know many theological groups, that have clean sheets.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Scott you cannot fool us, we all know that your a closet Calvinist

He was predestined to be this way.

EDIT: Before someone strawmans this as me supporting Calvinism, this is what is commonly referred to as humor.

 

[Zilla64007]

We're all so innocent I don't know what theological background you come from, but I don't think the Catholics have a clean sheet either. I don't know many theological groups, that have clean sheets.

oh, i dont think Catholics have a clean slate either at all... the Papal Inquisition comes to mind, and the Dark Ages as well...
personally, i would like to see non-Calvinists have more of a stance against Calvinism, because from what I've seen and experienced, non-Calvinism/Arminianism get an extremely lot of persecution, and should not be misinterpreted by those same Calvinists who dont even understand what Arminianism is

 

[jimmydiggs]

then why did you insult him?

I made no attempt to insult him. If I wanted to insult him, I'd just talk about the Orthodox church being heretical, or some stuff like that.. Maybe pull up some dirt on their history. Talk about how evil they are, instead of dealing with the issue as a matter of truth.

 

[Scotth1960]

im not going to strawman it... but maybe Calvinism in general is what is on scotth's heart right now... i know personally for me, it's been heavily on my heart as of late. I'm not a Calvinist either... the more I study non-Calvinism and Armianism, the more I'm intrigued as to why this belief system has continued on for so long...


then why did you insult him?... personally, i enjoy the posts scotth has to offer, even if he is a Catholic... i can't stand Catholicism in any way, shape or form in it's current state, but i will still show love to the guy either way...


and i read the op wrong... it says heresy... not enemy my bad
to clear this up on my part, i think Calvin's worst heresy was basing his entire theology on the works of Augustine

Dear Zilla64007, It is really strange to me that you "think" I am a Catholic. Well, it's just a thought. If you want the actual reality, I'm an ex-Lutheran and an ex-Pentecostal who is looking into Russian Orthodoxy. I haven't fully converted to the Orthodox Faith and Orthodox Church yet. I still have to get back to church and be baptized. I am hoping to do that sometime soon. My personal life situation now is just making it something I hope I can do in a few days from now. I'm not sure how long it will be before the priest is ready to baptize me, or I am ready to be baptized. I am only certain I feel better after confessing my sins to a priest. And I've repented of all of them, and I'm struggling not to sin and to resist temptation and live better. But no, I am not a Roman Catholic. If you care to notice, I have been quoting John 15:26 so many times that some of you who don't care about the Filioque controversy may become a bit disconcerted if not irritated with my persistence in protesting against this particular error. I know I myself have done worse things than believe in the Filoque. I believed in it in good faith, because I was faithful to Lutheranism. Not knowing any better, not knowing the Scriptures, or the power of God. But I agree with you that Calvin's worst error was basing his entire theology on the works of Augustine. So you know that much of Roman Catholicism is based on Augustine, it is sad that you think I am a Roman Catholic. Well, every Lutheran is a Roman Catholic in his belief in Filioque. So I guess it's understandable if you have not even ever heard of the Russian Orthodox Church. It has taken me since 1984 since I first became interested in Russian Orthodoxy to actually get to a Russian church services. I went several times to the Russian church in the mid 1990s and several more times between 2003 and 2006, and a few times since 2006. I need to get back there soon.
Part of the reason I care about refuting Calvinism is that some of the Calvinists, like Dr. Robert A. Morey, are so hateful against the Orthodox Church, and the book "Is Eastern Orthodoxy Christian?" is a very poorly-written, erroneous book. Anyone who thinks Buddha is an Orthodox saint is 100 percent off of his rocker. The Orthodox Church does not agree with Buddhism or make Buddha a member of the Church.
And Morey misunderstands the Orthodox teaching on theosis (deification).
And apparently Morey is having some troubles of his own now. God bless him.
Anyway, if you want to understand how much people misunderstand Orthodoxy, read Morey's book. But better still, read the friendliest, most non-controversial book on the Orthodox Church:
Gillquist, Fr. Peter E. (1992). Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith. revised and expanded edition. Ben Lomond, CA: Conciliar Press.
God bless you. Thank you for your kindness.
I am sure I am very much in need of forgiveness and mercy from God Himself.
And also I am sure I am glad when I find a few sympathetic souls who are kind to me.
So many people misunderstand what I am trying to say.
I am not attacking anyone personally.
If I offend any Protestants or Catholics, it's not my intention to offend. There is much good left over in Protestant and Catholic theology, and things which it has in common with Greek Orthodoxy. God save all of you in Christ Jesus our Saviour. Amen.
In Erie PA July 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 

[jimmydiggs]

oh, i dont think Catholics have a clean slate either at all... the Papal Inquisition comes to mind, and the Dark Ages as well...
personally, i would like to see non-Calvinists have more of a stance against Calvinism, because from what I've seen and experienced, non-Calvinism/Arminianism get an extremely lot of persecution, and should not be misinterpreted by those same Calvinists who dont even understand what Arminianism is

Ahhh, so Non-Calvinists and Arminians can do no wrong?

I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian. Just so you know where I am coming from.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I didn't make it in time to add this as an edit, or I would have.

So far in this thread, all I've seen is people talking about how John Calvin sinned.

 

[DiscipleWilliam]

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

*1 Cor. 3:4-7

 

[Zilla64007]

Ahhh, so Non-Calvinists and Arminians can do no wrong?

I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian. Just so you know where I am coming from.

I never made the statement that non-calvinists or Arminians can do no wrong- I was simply replying to your post on saying that Catholics aren't perfect either- No one is or will be perfect except Christ... At least, not until He returns

Concerning Russian orthodoxy, Ive done a little bit of study about the schism between Catholicism and orthodoxy in 1000AD- The only thing i see a difference in (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they don't worship the pope
I apologize, Scottyh, I had you mixed with another person on this forum... Happens with me sometimes, names and numbers get mixed up in my brain.

In quoting 1 Corinthians 1:10-11, I wholeheartedly agree, however even the apostles taught to stand firm to the teachings in which they had given us, either by word or by letter. I don't think Arminius died for me, and I don't believe that He baptized me- I still hold to Christ and i will always believe that. however in the world that John Calvin an those who came after him, James Arminius had the Biblical view

 

[VW]

Calvinism, Catholicism, Protestant, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, Reformed, Biblical, whatever; all of these have one thing in common. They are of men. They are religion. And although they mimic Christianity, the question must be asked, "are they really?" the funny thing about these "religions" is that they take on a life of their own. They tend to grow far beyond the intents or expectations of the one who instituted them. The oldest of these, Catholisim, was started by the emperor Constantine. His intent was to bring all of the diverse religions of his empire together in one religion, which he could control. Never could he have imagined it becoming the world wide nation state religion that it is today. And if he were to see it now, he would wonder at it's evolution from what he started. John Wesley would never have guessed the the Methodist church would come from his Holy Spirit empowered preaching, and he would be apppaled at what is called after his name.

Some men get it right, and some get it wrong. But no man gets it all right, and I don't believe that very many get it all wrong, if any. We see in part, we know in part, we prophecy in part, because the One who is perfect has not come to receive us into His bosum yet. Pointing out the errors of those who came before us does not necessarily carry out the will of God. It is better tO focus on Him and His teaching than on the failings of those who have come before us.