Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

[Blain]

I find many church doctrines are founded solely upon Paul's epistles, leaving the teachings of Jesus Christ as a mere footnote. One would think, they believe Paul is their savior, and Jesus the apostle of Paul. But worse yet, those who trust in these teachings are like blind men walking in the desert.

Paul is a great teacher...and one of my favorites, but teaching Paul without founding his teachings on what Christ taught his disciples, is like trying to teach Algebra to someone who doesn't know how to Add and Subtract. This is why the mainstream churches teach, the Christian is not under Gods Law, simply because Paul taught, "We are not under Law, we are under Grace." When it is this very Law which brings the believer their salvation.

Yes we are not under the law key word under. the law instructs but we are not under it like we were before Christ came to the ecene. Even David himself praised God for his law and how it blessed him to disregard the law is foolish but to let it have power over us is even more foolish. no one can keep the law perfectly except Christ so he became the law for us and gave us grace so that in follwing the law and failing to completely follow it we do not stumble over it when we fail to fully comply with it but rather because of grace we can keep moving forwards with no stumbling block

 

[Live4Him2]

I suggest that you read the New Testament. You know, where it tells us that Jesus came to save, not to condemn. You've read the Bible, but it obviously has done nothing for you. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.

I've read most of the books of the New Testament 100 times or more.

Having read your accusation, "Get thee behind me, Satan" suddenly comes to mind.

 

[Chester]

I don't know what groups you're talking about but virtually all so-called evangelical churches I've been to teach from the whole Bible. I've encountered a lot of groups who focus more on the Old Testament. But Paul over Jesus? I've never encountered this. However, I've never conducted a formal study so who knows.

Very few people/groups will come right out and admit that they view Paul's writings as more important than those of Jesus. But it is evidenced when it is constantly stated and emphasized that salvation is by faith alone and not by works - and then Jesus' teachings in the Sermon on the Mount are viewed as unattainable or as extra points if you decide to try to do some of them.

 

[Goliath]

“Repent is not a one and done deal. It's a spiritual struggle for a lifetime known as the sanctification process,”

repentance is a decision you make in light of the lord wedge that you have served sin in life. It should be a grievance to the heart when we realize our sins put Jesus on the cross.

If we ignore our sins we can never come to repentance

“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭

in every person is a war between good and evil it’s part of humanity this struggle

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a war between mans spirit and his flesh it’s been so since the fall

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

repentance is when you realize your deeds are serving Satan and you make a decision to stop doing that that’s where repentance lives. You may not stop
Immediately but once you make the decision your not able to freely continue because of your conscience you’ve decided through hearing the truth that your not going to serve satans Will anymore

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey

; whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭

repentance is when you choose obedience over sin because you’ve heard the truth that every time a person sins they are serving satans Will for their life that leads to death.

“to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey

; whether of sin unto death, “

a sinner yields themselves to the Will of sin the Will of the flesh , a Christian makes the decision to yield to Gods Will instead

You change from willingly being a servant ofnthe devil and his Will lust , greed , pride , grudge bearing ect those are the devils ways Christ taught us Gods ways

our cchoice is once you hear the truth to accept the truth and to follow after God and his ways revealed sin the gospel. To do this we have to repent of all we thought we knew about God become students or disciples of Jesus Christ beginning at Jesus repenting and starting here

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can’t keep seeing God the way Moses revealed him we have to accept who Jesus is , what Jesus said ect

repentance is simple it’s when we actually start taking the gospel seriously . Make the decision not to work with our enemy to destroy us , but turn to God and serve him who came to save us

it’s not repentance to pretend our sin doesn’t count , it’s not repentance to insist “ everyone sins “ it becomes repentance when we make the choice to stop serving sin and start serving God

whatever mistakes we make along the way we have Jesus to deal with that to make the decision to convert from satans servants serving and enjoying sin knowing the truth , and start believing and serving God enjoying the fruits of righteousness

repentance is a lifetime commitment to serve God and when you realize you’ve messed up to confess and repent and stand back up and walk again.

We have to repent of what’s in our head me heart and start letting Jesus teach us what’s meant to be there that’s where repentance comes from

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all it takes is for us to accept the truth ( but not then explain it’s not true )

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to start looking at it like it is sin is the Will of Satan , the gospel is the Will of God . Repentance is when we choose Gods ways as our life’s path.

Just wanted to say Brother....Well said!!

 

[Nehemiah6]

But it is evidenced when it is constantly stated and emphasized that salvation is by faith alone and not by works

But Jesus Himself taught that salvation is by grace through faith in Him alone. He excluded works, and so does Paul.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

But Jesus Himself taught that salvation is by grace through faith in Him alone. He excluded works, and so does Paul.

It depends on your definition of "work". Yes, faith comes by hearing, but true salvation requires doing the will of the Father in heaven, or it will be like a house built on shifting sands.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It depends on your definition of "work". Yes, faith comes by hearing, but true salvation requires doing the will of the Father in heaven, or it will be like a house built on shifting sands.

Since Christ Himself is the Rock, there is no need to talk about shifting sands. And Christ has refuted you in John 6:28,29: Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The will of God is that sinners repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Good works follow salvation, but salvation is not maintained by good works: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Since Christ Himself is the Rock, there is no need to talk about shifting sands. And Christ has refuted you in John 6:28,29: Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The will of God is that sinners repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Good works follow salvation, but salvation is not maintained by good works: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10)

Again, it depends on your definition of "work". Jesus doesn't refute himself, and this part in Matt. 7 is not the only portion of Scripture about doing the will of the Father. Didn't he also tell this parable of the two sons, one promised to do a task but later didn't do it at all, the other refused to do it but later changed his mind and did it? Of course salvation is not maintained or acquired by good works, work is what we do to make a living, both what we're paid to do and what we're not paid to do. In six days you shall work, and on the sabbath day you shall rest. And not only that, when the Israelites were in the wilderness, they had to work extra hard to gather a double portion of manna for sabbath when there would be no more manna.

 

[Goliath]

But Jesus Himself taught that salvation is by grace through faith in Him alone. He excluded works, and so does Paul.

This is true, If you only look at that which supports the doctrines for which you believe. But if you look at (Romans 2: 5-10) and many other passages, you see where Paul seems to contradict himself. He doesn't, but he does according to the many doctrines teachings on Grace. Don't get me wrong, I love the teachings of Paul and agree with them, but there are many false doctrines which are created from them.

Look around at the churches and their many doctrines, doctrines which have divided the church.
Is Christ divided? Is the path narrow or wide?
There is only one way and you will not find that way looking for it in the teachings of Men. You will only find your way....if you follow Gods Holy Spirit. It's not complicated, for he will lead you down the narrow path. He doesn't make it difficult, for he leads you like a little child.
But you need to stay in the light...every day..All day!!
How do you stay in the light?
Get in the habit of confessing your sins.
Why?
Because Sin separates us from God!
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
Isaiah 59:2
But if you confess sin..they are instantly forgiven and that separation is removed and you are cleansed in the blood of Jesus Christ. This forgiveness keeps you in the light.
(1 John 1)

 

[Chester]

But Jesus Himself taught that salvation is by grace through faith in Him alone. He excluded works, and so does Paul.

Scripture never states that salvation is by faith alone (neither Paul nor Jesus). Paul says it "by grace through faith, not of works". When Paul says "not of works" I think that is very different than "excluding" works. In fact, rather than excluding works, Paul says that we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Eph. 2:8-10

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Since Christ Himself is the Rock, there is no need to talk about shifting sands. And Christ has refuted you in John 6:28,29: Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The will of God is that sinners repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Good works follow salvation, but salvation is not maintained by good works: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10)

Amen.

The work of trusting in Jesus as written in John 6:29, is the only work that brings salvation.

Anyone teaching any other works to maintain or attain salvation is a false teacher.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Very few people/groups will come right out and admit that they view Paul's writings as more important than those of Jesus. But it is evidenced when it is constantly stated and emphasized that salvation is by faith alone and not by works - and then Jesus' teachings in the Sermon on the Mount are viewed as unattainable or as extra points if you decide to try to do some of them.

Well I do agree that faith without works is dead; but the idea that one can be saved by faith alone can also be extracted from the gospels if a person wants to bad enough. For example:

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; and he who does not believe the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."—John 3:36

"And those beside the road are they that hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, lest they believe and be saved."—Luke 8:12

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Just wanted to say Brother....Well said!!

I’m glad you were able to make some sense of it brother it’s just my own thought about repentance but makes sense to me


all of Gods people should be able to agree regarding whether Christians represent and serve the good or the evil in this world. If we’re able to allow the gospel to start filling up our thinking and ideas about God we’re going to come to know him and leave no room for the things that kept us from knowing him as our father

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The world is always trying to corrupt what Christ has put in our heart through the gospel meant for faith , and the gospel is always calling us out of the worldly things into the kingdom of God.

anytime a Christian hears a message about repentance , sin begins instantly trying to get that away from thier mind and heart “ no one really ever stops sinning , repentance isn’t what it seems it is “ or “ you’ve fallen from grace thats salvation by works “ anything , any thought other than what Jesus has said

Satan doesn’t want people to become convinced of what Jesus had to say he knows it will free thier mind and heart from his lies and snare in the world . He knows without the gospel we’re bound to remain in darkness never realizing our chains are broken the door of the dungeon is torn off it’s hinges and people are free to get up and walk away now we don’t have to keep serving the devil , we can start believing the gospel now

“When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended

. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:19-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Chester]

Well I do agree that faith without works is dead; but the idea that one can be saved by faith alone can also be extracted from the gospels if a person wants to bad enough. For example:

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; and he who does not believe the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."—John 3:36

"And those beside the road are they that hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, lest they believe and be saved."—Luke 8:12

If one says we are saved by faith alone, I respond by asking - Is not God's grace part of what brings salvation? And are we not saved by Jesus, and not simply by our faith alone? Well then you might say that being saved by "faith alone" does not mean that grace and Jesus are not involved in our salvation. If that is so, then why does one say that it is by "faith alone"??????

The references you give: John 3:36 and Luke 8:12 do indeed clearly site the role of believing (faith) in salvation. Amen and amen! But as you admit, they do not say it is by faith alone.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, many times the emphasis on "faith alone" comes from a set doctrinal belief one has (such as the 5 Solas). One does not find it in the Bible, but must as you say "extract" it - if you want to bad enough!

 

[Goliath]

I’m glad you were able to make some sense of it brother it’s just my own thought about repentance but makes sense to me

Brother, I got from here to there, flesh to spirit, over 20 years ago. And over that 20 years, I tried to understand how it was done. That ignorance in itself, shows it was not my work, but Gods work in me. And I discovered the key, was the changing of my heart. And once I discovered how God changed me from a servant of sin, into a servant of righteousness, I wanted others to know too.

Everyone who has been given the gift of the Holy Spirit, has a sin they have been tasked with overcoming And they find this task, impossible. Many fight this sin for their entire lifetime and they never overcome it, simply because they followed the teachings of man...and not the Holy Spirit.
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:
(1 John 2:3-5)
Paul talks about that sin..(singular) in (Romans 7) and how it brought death.
Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
Romans 7:9

The whole point of that sin, which we can not overcome, is to change our hearts, change them so we can love God and our neighbor.....just as our Lord Jesus loves us. When this happens..you can easily overcome said sin. People, doctrines are mere words and over time we have had literally thousands of them. Following a doctrine is foolishness...following the Holy Spirit...very wise..wise indeed!!
Folks I do say these things to be popular...I say them because I love you.
"Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”
(Luke 6:46-49)

 

[Goliath]

Too funny. That was supposed to say I don’t say what I say to be popular

 

[Nehemiah6]

As I have pointed out elsewhere, many times the emphasis on "faith alone" comes from a set doctrinal belief one has (such as the 5 Solas).

You seem to be forgetting that the Five Solas say "Christ alone", "grace alone", and "faith alone". Which means that salvation by grace through faith is in Christ ALONE (and includes His finished work of redemption). "Not by works of righteousness which we have done".

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“ People, doctrines are mere words and over time we have had literally thousands of them. Following a doctrine is foolishness...following the Holy Spirit...very wise..wise indeed!!”

when your talking about Jesus words your talking about Gods doctrine the holy spirits doctrine. I would agree anything else would
Be foolishness the gospel preached by Jesus Christ is the word of the Holy Ghost and will never change

If we are following anything contrary it isn’t the Holy Spirit.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I would agree any other doctrine but what Christ Jesus the lord established is foolishness to Hope in.

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

…Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus words are different because of who he is

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:49-50‬ ‭

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods doctrine is what Jesus preached the Holy Ghost will always agree

“These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What Jesus had to say is truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it will not change

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Will not pass away

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Will be what words were judged by either now


“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭

or in the end

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

His word is spirit and life

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63

we should definately avoid the “teachings of men “ creating reasons to part from the doctrine of Christ but want to remain in his doctrine always learning from him

 

[Iconoclast]

The law is OT not NT. No one can obey the entire law, that's why Jesus came.

There is law and grace in all 66 books of the bible

 

[Iconoclast]

Maybe you are the one who misinterprets Paul's teachings. Yes, the Law brings us to salvation, no, the law does not save us. Paul received the gospel directly from God. If you have a problem, take it up with Him.

The Law profited Israel exactly nothing. It will do even less for Christians. All it does is judge and condemn. You do well to research th whole counsel of God. If you reject the teachings of Paul, you put yourself under a curse. If you disobey just one law one time, you are accursed. That is not good news, at least in my book.

The law is holy,just, and good.
Christians ate under law to Christ.