Truth or Traditions of men
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please just answer plainly:
did Christ come in the flesh?
did Christ rise in the flesh?
did Christ ascend in the flesh?
or is there no salvation, no redemption, no hope?
i would like to ascertain if you are a gnostic heretic or an actual Christian
for the purposes of saving lots of wasted words
((1st 2nd 3rd John exist in the Bible for a reason))
if such things offend you, then i think i already have the answer.
did Christ come in the flesh?
did Christ rise in the flesh?
did Christ ascend in the flesh?
or is there no salvation, no redemption, no hope?
i would like to ascertain if you are a gnostic heretic or an actual Christian
for the purposes of saving lots of wasted words
((1st 2nd 3rd John exist in the Bible for a reason))
if such things offend you, then i think i already have the answer.
1st Corinthians 15:35-49 The Resurrection Body
35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.
39Not all flesh is the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another. 41The sun has one degree of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead: What is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;”e the last Adam a life-giving spirit.
46The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.
You plant a seed of corn in the ground, that seed then sprouts into a stock of corn. The corn grows and produces ears of corn. What happened to the seed? It died buried in the ground, but it brought forth a new body a stock of corn.
This flesh body is only the seed for the spiritual body which was given to us at conception and will grow within us we are better that corn we get to chose weather we become a child of God or a child of Satan. Read the answer to the parable of the wheat and tears Matthew 13:36-43. You will get all the info. you need In black and white from Jesus Himself; not me or some other man that may or mat not tell you the truth.
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I was attending a service at the church of my cousin last summer.
It was a unique experience for me. I knew that when there was a whiteboard in the pulpit.
The pastor ran the sermon period like a Bible study. It was fantastic.
At the close of the service she broughtup the verse in your post above.
Jesus' resurrection, the dead coming out of the graves. The prior verses where Jesus described his second coming, which described all of those things first.
Then she proposed the next week's sermon study subject.
With all those verses in mind and asked us to consider this question.
Was Jesus' second coming accomished at his resurrection? He prophecied the second coming in detail. Then the details occurred at his second coming.
Would this mean those in the world afterward are living the tribulation?
And would this explain why the world is in the state it is in now? And Mark 13 describes wat happens after we survive this.
I left that next week before the weekend and Sunday's gathering. But I still think that was an interesting proposal.
It was a unique experience for me. I knew that when there was a whiteboard in the pulpit.
The pastor ran the sermon period like a Bible study. It was fantastic.
At the close of the service she broughtup the verse in your post above.
Jesus' resurrection, the dead coming out of the graves. The prior verses where Jesus described his second coming, which described all of those things first.
Then she proposed the next week's sermon study subject.
With all those verses in mind and asked us to consider this question.
Was Jesus' second coming accomished at his resurrection? He prophecied the second coming in detail. Then the details occurred at his second coming.
Would this mean those in the world afterward are living the tribulation?
And would this explain why the world is in the state it is in now? And Mark 13 describes wat happens after we survive this.
I left that next week before the weekend and Sunday's gathering. But I still think that was an interesting proposal.
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i would say 'fascination' is a mischaracterization..
but i do not altogether dismiss the body because God came in the flesh, rose in the flesh, and ascended in the flesh.
therefore it seems it is kinda important to God, you know?
so i ask myself questions like, why did He give us bodies of flesh in the first place? why go die on the cross in one, Himself?
and then rise in it?
did He create me in this tent only to annihilate it?? such an idea doesn't make any sense, to me. it's incongruous.
but i do not altogether dismiss the body because God came in the flesh, rose in the flesh, and ascended in the flesh.
therefore it seems it is kinda important to God, you know?
so i ask myself questions like, why did He give us bodies of flesh in the first place? why go die on the cross in one, Himself?
and then rise in it?
did He create me in this tent only to annihilate it?? such an idea doesn't make any sense, to me. it's incongruous.
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I will ask you again is the bible only 99.9% truth
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
If your flesh is at enmity against God and your flesh cannot please God why would God want it and why would you want to take it with you to God.
If we are created in the image of God and when ever you read of an account of someone coming in contact with an angle, a messenger of God or Michael they are a young man or a man. I die in a fire, car crash ect. and am just a mangled mess is that the body that is going to go with me to heaven. That to me would not be a place I want to be. God said that we are not going to age, get sick ect. how are you going to stop the ageing of the flesh.
First Peter 3:18-22
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Verse 18: Jesus was put to death in the flesh but quickened "made alive" in the spirit 19: Then he went to preach to the spirits "not flesh bodies" in prison " those that died before they had a chance to here his message" 22. Jesus is gone into Heven with God; angles; and authorities and powers "in the flesh? maybe according to you"
And Just for good measure to see if you still thank Paul is not completely honest in 1st Corinthians 15 Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
If your flesh is at enmity against God and your flesh cannot please God why would God want it and why would you want to take it with you to God.
If we are created in the image of God and when ever you read of an account of someone coming in contact with an angle, a messenger of God or Michael they are a young man or a man. I die in a fire, car crash ect. and am just a mangled mess is that the body that is going to go with me to heaven. That to me would not be a place I want to be. God said that we are not going to age, get sick ect. how are you going to stop the ageing of the flesh.
First Peter 3:18-22
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Verse 18: Jesus was put to death in the flesh but quickened "made alive" in the spirit 19: Then he went to preach to the spirits "not flesh bodies" in prison " those that died before they had a chance to here his message" 22. Jesus is gone into Heven with God; angles; and authorities and powers "in the flesh? maybe according to you"
And Just for good measure to see if you still thank Paul is not completely honest in 1st Corinthians 15 Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God.
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Where Are The Dead?
Where are my loved ones after they die? Will I ever get to see them again? The bible is very clear on this subject.
If you as a christian have the right answers this can be an opportunity to witness to family, friends, neighbors, about the love and compassion of our Heavenly Father.
Where are the dead? Are they out here in a hole in the ground? No they are not. Are Father is the God of the living not of the dead. As of right now there is only one that has been sentenced to death; that is Satan. Has he been put to death? Not yet but his death sentence has been handed down and will be carried out at the appointed time by God. He is spiritually dead there is no hope for him.
Lets go to Luke chapter 23:43 Jesus is on the cross you have the two malefactors on either side of Him. One of them tells the other to be quiet we deserve to be here but He has done nothing wrong. I believe that this one was convinced that Jesus was who He said He was.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
What does Jesus say You can take this to the bank. TODAY not some far off time in the future but TODAY you will be with me in paradise. Paradise: Strong's 3857 A park, Eden a garden place of future happiness. Does Jesus say today you are going to go into a hole in in the ground? NO! TODAY not tomorrow, not 2 days, not 2,000 years from know but today you will be with me in paradise. So where are they going when they finishing dyeing on that cross Paradise. This is not my idea these are not my words, This is what JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD SAID. You don't like it, don,t thank it is true take it up with Him. What kind of hope would we have if our Spirit that will never die had to be put in the ground and live like some mole for hundreds or even thousands of years? That is no hope at all; And it surely is not a victory over death. Remember this Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!"... He is not the God of the dead, but of ... living. You are badly mistaken!" So he is the ... of the living, not the dead. You have made a ...
https://biblehub.com/mark/12-27.htm
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
When they came and took Jesus's body and put it into the tomb did He just say there? Lets find out 1st Peter chapter 3 starting with verse 18
Make sure you read this carefully and get every word.
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Jesus was crucified one time and one time only in His flesh body. The Just One Jesus was the only perfect sacrifice; For who? The unjust every other person in the world that has walked is walking or will walk in this world in a flesh body. So that He could do what bring us to some hole in the ground. No not what it says! It says so He could bring us to God. Jesus was put to death in the flesh but quickened “#2227 Strong's Make alive, give life, quicken.”by the spirit. That is that transfigured spiritual body that we will all have upon death. All that means the good, the bad and the ugly. Flesh dies but man doesn't. Man is and has a higher quality than flesh alone. Man is both flesh and spirit. Man has a better part to him than flesh alone.
Verse 19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Where was this prison? In paradise. This would be the same paradise spoken of in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16. The rich man could look across the gulf and see the throne of God. He could see Abraham he was not in some hole in the ground. He could not cross that gulf; Why? He was held in prison for judgment. He did not make it. I want to ask a question and I want you to thank about it before you answer it. Would it be fair for God to punish all the people that came and died before Jesus that never got a chance to know Him, except the shed blood, and receive eternal life? The answer should be NO it would not be fair at all. If anything God is fair everyone has the same opportunity to choose life or death. Time to use some common sense here. I hope you have some. Is there anyway you could look at a person that is dead and talk to them and have them hear you or understand what you are saying. You can be spiritually dead and preached to but not physically dead. These people were not spread all around the world at the bottom of the ocean, buried in tombs, ect. Jesus went and preached to these spirits, these people, the people from the time of Adam till the time Jesus died. These were not a bunch of dead dried up bones. There were living breathing human beings in a spiritual body with a mortal soul meaning that it was likely to die. Not dead already. NO and I mean NO body has been sentenced to death but Satan. Everyone else must what for the judgment of the Great White Throne of Judgment. There we will receive everything we have coming to us. Some of us will get great blessings and long flowing robs. I hope my rob is long enough to cover my backside. Other will be condemned to hell.
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Citizenship in Heaven Philippians 3:17-21
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Moffatt bible 1st Corinthians 5:3-5
3 For my part, present with you in spirit though absent in body, I have already, as in your presence, passed sentence on such an offender as this, 4 by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ; I have met with you in spirit, and by the power of our Lord Jesus 5 I have consigned that individual to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, in order that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord Jesus.
Moffatt bible Revelation 21.
6 Then he said, "All is over! I am the alpha and the omega, the First and the Last. I will let the thirsty drink of the fountain of the water of Life without price. 7 The conqueror shall obtain this, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son; 8 but as for the craven, the faithless, the abominable, as for murderers, the immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and liars of all kinds — their lot is the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." 9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues; and he spoke to me thus, "Come, and I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 So he carried me off, rapt in the Spirit, to a huge, high mountain, where he showed me the City, the holy Jerusalem, descending from God out of heaven, 11 with the glory of God. The sheen of it resembled some rare jewel like jasper, clear as crystal; 12 it has a huge, high wall with twelve gates, twelve angels at the twelve gates, and names inscribed thereon which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel, 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 And the wall of the City has twelve foundation-stones, bearing the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb
Luke 24
Moffatt(i) 1 On the sabbath they rested in obedience to God's command, but on the first day of the week at early dawn they took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 The boulder they found rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they went inside they could not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 They were puzzling over this, when two men flashed on them in dazzling raiment. 5 They were terrified and bent their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look among the dead for him who is alive? 6 He is not here, he has risen. Remember how he told you when he was still in Galilee 7 that the Son of man had to be betrayed into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and rise on the third day." 8 Then they remembered what he had said, 9 and turning away from the tomb they reported all this to the eleven and all the others.
Where was the body of Jesus? I don't know it is most likely in the same place as Moses's body; Where is that? No man knows we know that Moses died he was buried but no man has ever found his body.
After reading this is there any way you can still say that we will rise up out of the grave in a decade fleshes bag of bones body and be here on earth in the new city drinking from the fountain of living water with Jesus and God. God is spirit and those who worship Him mut worship Him is spirit and truth.
17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Moffatt bible 1st Corinthians 5:3-5
3 For my part, present with you in spirit though absent in body, I have already, as in your presence, passed sentence on such an offender as this, 4 by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ; I have met with you in spirit, and by the power of our Lord Jesus 5 I have consigned that individual to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, in order that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord Jesus.
Moffatt bible Revelation 21.
6 Then he said, "All is over! I am the alpha and the omega, the First and the Last. I will let the thirsty drink of the fountain of the water of Life without price. 7 The conqueror shall obtain this, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son; 8 but as for the craven, the faithless, the abominable, as for murderers, the immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and liars of all kinds — their lot is the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." 9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues; and he spoke to me thus, "Come, and I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 So he carried me off, rapt in the Spirit, to a huge, high mountain, where he showed me the City, the holy Jerusalem, descending from God out of heaven, 11 with the glory of God. The sheen of it resembled some rare jewel like jasper, clear as crystal; 12 it has a huge, high wall with twelve gates, twelve angels at the twelve gates, and names inscribed thereon which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel, 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 And the wall of the City has twelve foundation-stones, bearing the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb
Luke 24
Moffatt(i) 1 On the sabbath they rested in obedience to God's command, but on the first day of the week at early dawn they took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 The boulder they found rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they went inside they could not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 They were puzzling over this, when two men flashed on them in dazzling raiment. 5 They were terrified and bent their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look among the dead for him who is alive? 6 He is not here, he has risen. Remember how he told you when he was still in Galilee 7 that the Son of man had to be betrayed into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and rise on the third day." 8 Then they remembered what he had said, 9 and turning away from the tomb they reported all this to the eleven and all the others.
Where was the body of Jesus? I don't know it is most likely in the same place as Moses's body; Where is that? No man knows we know that Moses died he was buried but no man has ever found his body.
After reading this is there any way you can still say that we will rise up out of the grave in a decade fleshes bag of bones body and be here on earth in the new city drinking from the fountain of living water with Jesus and God. God is spirit and those who worship Him mut worship Him is spirit and truth.
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Proverbs 9:18
Amplified Bible
But he does not know that the spirits of the dead are there,
And that her guests are [already] in the depths of Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead).
New International Version
But little do they know that the dead are there, that her guests are deep in the realm of the dead.
English Standard Version
But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol.
It is well known that the word Hell in the KJV is the Hebrew word Sheol which refers to the grave... Yes, the KJV is a mistranslation there today using modern English. Back in 1611 Hell may have included the grave.
King James Bible
But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Good News Translation
Her victims do not know that the people die who go to her house, that those who have already entered are now deep in the world of the dead.
JPS Tanakh 1917
But he knoweth not that the shades are there; That her guests are in the depths of the nether-world.
Amplified Bible
But he does not know that the spirits of the dead are there,
And that her guests are [already] in the depths of Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead).
New International Version
But little do they know that the dead are there, that her guests are deep in the realm of the dead.
English Standard Version
But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol.
It is well known that the word Hell in the KJV is the Hebrew word Sheol which refers to the grave... Yes, the KJV is a mistranslation there today using modern English. Back in 1611 Hell may have included the grave.
King James Bible
But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Good News Translation
Her victims do not know that the people die who go to her house, that those who have already entered are now deep in the world of the dead.
JPS Tanakh 1917
But he knoweth not that the shades are there; That her guests are in the depths of the nether-world.