Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Nehemiah6]

Its because they don't like the Sovereignty of God.

Should not the emphasis be on the grace of God? A wrong emphasis means a wrong gospel.

TITUS 2: IT IS THE GRACE OF GOD WHICH OFFERS SALVATION TO ALL MEN
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Amanuensis]

Do you think the survey actually singled out Pentecostals when mainline Protestants and Catholics performed evenpoorer?

No. I understand that there was quite a few things said about America in general and then also about evangelicals.

I know something about Pentecostals from 40 years of involvement in the Pentecostal Charismatic movement and I know that 60% would not say that they believe that they can earn their salvation by doing good works. Therefore I reject any such claim.

My guess is that if the survey quoted was done in a scientific way it did not produce such a statistic but it is being used by someone who is misquoting it or putting a spin on it.

Otherwise I would suspect that the survey was not a scientific one.

I would guess that most Americans don't even think they need salvation so how to earn it is not important to them.

I would guess that asking people in an evangelical main line denomination like Baptists, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran etc.
"Do you think you can earn salvation through good works" you are likely to get a very high percentage who say Yes, but not if you ask this same question to Pentecostal churches.

The reason I think that is because I suspect that 80% of those attending a mainline denomination on Sunday are not really saved nor do they know much about how to answer theological questions.

I believe that about 80% of those attending a Pentecostal church are born again and living their faith and know at least enough to answer No to such a question.

Now that is my theory and I would have to perform my own survey or hire some people to start asking questions as people exit their churches on Sunday Morning and after collecting data from 4000 churches and several times that number of people we could take a look at the results and see what we come up with.

 

[crossnote]

But make no mistake, those who truly believe in Jesus will overcome sin and do his work. Jesus has no respect for lukewarm Laodiceans.

As long as pride doesn't ride along.

 

[Amanuensis]

Hmmm, speaking of "good works", how many of them believe that "toil in the soil" is a curse? That is a traditional view in Greek phylosophy, that work is for the unsaved and cursed, those who are saved and blessed don't have to work. In other words, brain over muscles. This view was used to justify slavery, and it's still prevailing today. It's the fundamental belief of anybody who worships technology and relies on outsourcing, there's a feeling of disdain to physical labor in the field. How are they supposed to live a life full of Good Works?

I've got nothing.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Should not the emphasis be on the grace of God? A wrong emphasis means a wrong gospel.

The problem is the wrong focus - could be modern-day Israel, traditional and family values, personal wellbeing, social issues, or even just the church organization. Of course all of these are important and there's a lot of overlap, but none of those are the gospel defined in 1 Cor. 15:1-11.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Luke Cha 12 tells us that such things as level of knowledge will be taken into account:

That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.

Also, Romans 2 seems to indicate that the law is written in our hearts and people may be judged by conscience if they do not have the law.

All this leads me to think that God will be merciful and just, and will judge on a case by case basis.

 

[crossnote]

My guess is that if the survey quoted was done in a scientific way it did not produce such a statistic but it is being used by someone who is misquoting it or putting a spin on it.

Could be, but I have seen a number of these surveys with similar results. We wouldn't want to go with just one poll in any case.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I've got nothing.

I'm just telling you about this one particular conventional wisdom regarding "good works" that could be dated back to ancient Greece. You know, the Beast in John's vision has a body of leopard, and in Daniel the leopard represents ancient Greece, spiritually, that means all these prevailing phylosophies packaged and disguised in modern terms. There's nothing new under the sun.

 

[crossnote]

I'm just telling you about this one particular conventional wisdom regarding "good works" that could be dated back to ancient Greece.

I would think it dates back to a guilty conscience, normally typified by fig leaves...

(Gen 3:7) Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
(Gen 3:8) They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Ever since, man has been wrapping themselves in the fig leaves of works...

(Isa 64:6) For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Could be, but I have seen a number of these surveys with similar results. We wouldn't want to go with just one poll in any case.

Surveys and polls are generally unreliable, and even Barna often fails to ask the right questions of the right people. Then again, respondents may nor may not reveal their true thoughts or beliefs, since matters regarding religion are usually kept private. Then again, was the selection of respondents totally random and also representative of the entire population? Answers on the East and West Coast could be quite different from those on the prairies.

 

[kaylagrl]

But that being said, I am confident that many will be saved who never believed in Jesus.

Whoa!! Back that horse up!! How exactly can one be saved and never believe in Christ?!

Will Jesus save or damn all those that never heard of Him, like the American Indians? Will he damn them because they had no chance of hearing the Gospel?

Romans 1:20, NIV: For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Over the past 2,000 years, countless children have died without ever knowing Jesus, will He damn them to hell for all eternity or will he save them?

There is an age of accountability, of understanding a baby can't understand salvation.

 

[crossnote]

Surveys and polls are generally unreliable, and even Barna often fails to ask the right questions of the right people. Then again, respondents may nor may not reveal their true thoughts or beliefs, since matters regarding religion are usually kept private. Then again, was the selection of respondents totally random and also representative of the entire population? Answers on the East and West Coast could be quite different from those on the prairies.

Good points, but it is pretty well understood amongst born agains that many of these so called 'Christians' have never experienced the new birth, thus the terms are very much undefined.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Romans 1:20, NIV: For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Knowing God's invisible qualities and recognizing these qualities does not necessarily mean that people know the name Jesus or know the Gospel; this would be true for people who never came across the Gospel. I actually think that's what this verse is saying...just because people don't know doesn't mean they have an excuse. If you think these people know the Gospel/Jesus, since you quoted the verse in response to arthurfleminger's question on the salvation of Native Americans, how is this the case?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I would think it dates back to a guilty conscience, normally typified by fig leaves...

(Gen 3:7) Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
(Gen 3:8) They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Ever since, man has been wrapping themselves in the fig leaves of works...

(Isa 64:6) For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

There's nothing wrong about work per se, and God is not against work in any way. Sloth is a deadly sin, work is not. Work and faith are like two sides of the same coin, they can't be separated. Those who think they can be separated are under the influence of gnosticism, that body and soul are separate, body is evil while soul is good. The problem is the type of work and the purpose of work. As I said, work is for THIS life, not the next life. Love God with all your soul and love your neighbor as yourself are connected, because serving men IS serving God. I wrote this thread to discuss the biblical definition of work, you may check it out.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/what-is-the-biblical-definition-of-work.205423/

 

[pottersclay]

Lets face it saints the church has failed its duties by getting actively involved in our communities and political issues.
Giving voice to the righteousness of God.
We've become armchair disciples bickering among ourselves making more distortion of the truth.
Its time that we wake up for the time is near.
Im not pointing the finger at anyone but myself. Many times i listen to the news and just feel terrible hearing about the distorted truths, the lies and deception that plague the minds of many. The violence that comes out of frustration, anger, and hopelessness.
Its not about left wing or right wing perspective. Its about a nation that has lost its first love.
It is God and only GOD that makes a nation great.
SO many times i have failed to act on what i know is to be the truth. My idleness exposes my hypocrisy and rewards me with shame and regret.
I ask the Lord for boldness and the words to speak his truth and beleive that i have received but then fail miserable to go.
In other words the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I find myself the one in need of much prayer.
I dont know if anyone else is going through this but as for me now you know.
Is this the time the church is found asleep.? Or is it just me?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You seem to be missing one important point. The ones who stayed were walking in the truth; they were obeying the Lord, doing His will. Those who went out did so because they wanted to go their own way, they didn't want to keep on walking.

"I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father."—2 John 1:4

this makes no sense.

He said they were NEVER of us.

If they were never of us. were they ever truly walking at all? I would say no..

what they did was go back to what they really were..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

more importantly 'were not of us' refers to not being born again...without the new nature.

Amen

As a dog (who was not born again made into a new creature) returns ot his vomit (who he really is)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would think it dates back to a guilty conscience, normally typified by fig leaves...

(Gen 3:7) Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.
(Gen 3:8) They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Ever since, man has been wrapping themselves in the fig leaves of works...

(Isa 64:6) For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

I am reminded of Cain

Abel brought the unblemished lamb
Cain brought human good. (fruit of his labor)

Works based theology has been since the beginning. I believe it is mans first tendency.

 

[Grandpa]

Should not the emphasis be on the grace of God? A wrong emphasis means a wrong gospel.

TITUS 2: IT IS THE GRACE OF GOD WHICH OFFERS SALVATION TO ALL MEN
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The emphasis for unsaved people would be on the Grace of God.

If a saved person wants to learn what was the cause and meaning of Salvation they would look at Gods Sovereignty.

 

[JohnDB]

There's this whole disconnect between good vs Holy.

Holy does contain the element good...but it's more than that...it's reserved for special use. It's also pure, without blemish or defect.

I can buy a loaf of bread...and it's good. But an ordinary loaf of bread isn't the same as shew bread designed and baked for the Tabernacle of God.

Both breads are good....but one is Holy and the other isn't.

Only Holy articles are allowed into God's presence. That include "good " actions which are labeled as righteousness but do not meet the standards.

Righteousness is good...but these actions are also Holy. A whole level of separation of common good behaviors.