Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[posthuman]

I don't think so. I think it is the cares of the world choked them out.

but there is nothing in the text of Acts 5 that says that; it's your supposition.
if it is like unto the Korah rebellion, why isn't it fully like unto the Korah rebellion?
Peter says they were in a conspiracy ((Acts 5:9)) and says Satan filled their hearts.
of course the text of Acts 5 doesn't say they were true believers, nor does it outright say they were false. but who was Korah? a servant of God or a representative of an evil & adulterous generation? if he is a type of antichrist in the OT, and he is a like type of Ananias, then it stands to reason Ananias is also a type of antichrist.

i mean, does Satan have power to fill the heart of a child of God?
or only his own children?

bro, God Himself personally striking a man dead had not been seen since olden times, when it happened in Acts 5. it is a very significant event. so i think it is a very significant sin, and to understand it we have to understand for example why God did not do the same thing to Judas when he stole money, or to for another example Simon the sorcerer when he wanted to buy the gift of God, or even to Balaam?

these pieces all fit together when i consider that they were conspirators with the agencies that also conspired against Christ. wolves among the sheep. i don't understand them as saints who made one mistake out of care for wordly comfort & security through money. i understand them as purposefully seeking to defame the church. there is a reason why it is mentioned at the close of Acts 4 that a certain Levite sold land and gave all the proceeds before Peter's feet, and immediately afterwards we have Ananias & Sapphira doing something similar but holding back some of the price. i don't think that reason is that 'one saint did greater works than another so the second was damned and the surety of God reneged' -- i think it is because the second was not a child of God to begin with.


IMO Acts 5 is very complex, as all scripture is.
i may be wrong of course, but from my perspective what makes sense is that they were not sheep; they were goats, and what they did was no small sin, but great wickedness.


thanks for taking the time to write back to me and think of this. i know what it is like to have 15 people trying to get your attention about 20 different things, lol.
**prays for your patience** ♥

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

but there is nothing in the text of Acts 5 that says that; it's your supposition.
if it is like unto the Korah rebellion, why isn't it fully like unto the Korah rebellion?
Peter says they were in a conspiracy ((Acts 5:9)) and says Satan filled their hearts.
of course the text of Acts 5 doesn't say they were true believers, nor does it outright say they were false. but who was Korah? a servant of God or a representative of an evil & adulterous generation? if he is a type of antichrist in the OT, and he is a like type of Ananias, then it stands to reason Ananias is also a type of antichrist.

i mean, does Satan have power to fill the heart of a child of God?
or only his own children?

bro, God Himself personally striking a man dead had not been seen since olden times, when it happened in Acts 5. it is a very significant event. so i think it is a very significant sin, and to understand it we have to understand for example why God did not do the same thing to Judas when he stole money, or to for another example Simon the sorcerer when he wanted to buy the gift of God, or even to Balaam?

these pieces all fit together when i consider that they were conspirators with the agencies that also conspired against Christ. wolves among the sheep. i don't understand them as saints who made one mistake out of care for wordly comfort & security through money. i understand them as purposefully seeking to defame the church. there is a reason why it is mentioned at the close of Acts 4 that a certain Levite sold land and gave all the proceeds before Peter's feet, and immediately afterwards we have Ananias & Sapphira doing something similar but holding back some of the price. i don't think that reason is that 'one saint did greater works than another so the second was damned and the surety of God reneged' -- i think it is because the second was not a child of God to begin with.


IMO Acts 5 is very complex, as all scripture is.
i may be wrong of course, but from my perspective what makes sense is that they were not sheep; they were goats.

Well the care of the world in the text would be the money they tried to skim off the top for themselves wouldn't it? That is their conspiracy, to steal from God.

 

[posthuman]

Well the care of the world in the text would be the money they tried to skim off the top for themselves wouldn't it? That is their conspiracy, to steal from God.

isn't stealing from God what the wicked, idol shepherd does in Zechariah 11 / Ezekiel 34?

 

[posthuman]

@A-Sword-Cometh

i see you read my post before i finished editing it -- wanted to make sure you got this bit that i added a minute or two later:

thanks for taking the time to write back to me and think of this. i know what it is like to have 15 people trying to get your attention about 20 different things, lol.
**prays for your patience** ♥

 

[PennEd]

Well how can King Saul have the Spirit but not be sealed by the Spirit when he was even made King by God? Saul believed in God's promises at one point, he had faith, he had the Spirit, but he lost the Spirit.

I seem unable to articulate correctly several times now the difference between how the Holy Spirit operated in the OT vs post Jesus’s resurrection. Perhaps this guy can do a better job:

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

isn't stealing from God what the wicked, idol shepherd does in Zechariah 11 / Ezekiel 34?

Zechariah is about the destruction of Israel and Judah, but that is good to the point though, woe to the shepherd that leaves the flock indeed! And of course the Sword makes another appearance.

Ezekiel 34 I do believe is much the same, you do have a point, but I am thinking it is more about the leadership how they became particularly worn off (though indeed yes for the same reasons) whereas Ananias and Sapphira were not the leadership. Though it would indeed be a good analogy to say Judas Iscariot or King Saul, how they neglected to do what is right both by God and the flock of the Lord when the Lord had put them into great authority over his own sheep.

@A-Sword-Cometh

i see you read my post before i finished editing it -- wanted to make sure you got this bit that i added a minute or two later:

Lol and imagine on top of all that you have a lightskin girlfriend asking you about her looks in comparison to Beyonce.

 

[JAPOV]

I think the video above makes a great point. Before Christ, men were led by the Spirit but bound to the law. Ecclesiastes, Job...

 

[BeeThePeace]

Lol and imagine on top of all that you have a lightskin girlfriend asking you about her looks in comparison to Beyonce.

Lie!

😆

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Peter 1:8-9
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Does that apply to Jesus, Paul, Silas, and Peter ?

 

[Blain]

Well faith in what? You can have faith in the Barney the dinosaur, in which case you have faith, but then are you saved? Not at all!

To be more to the point you have faith that Jesus, the begotten Son of God was born, crucified, and resurrected. Since if Christ is crucified and resurrected then the resurrection is true and at the resurrection you will be saved if you have faith in him and this. Now if to the contrary Christ is not resurrected, or there is no resurrection, all hope is in vain. Faith is good again, don't get me wrong, I am not saying faith is bad, I am not saying to not have faith in Jesus and his crucifixion and resurrection, but one must understand that the resurrection is a real thing and that's when you're really saved. Until that time anyone can lose that faith, so just saying you are saved means nothing. There are tons of examples of people that started in the faith, but did not finish the race.

To be saved one must be born again of water and spirit those were the words of Jesus himself he never once mentioned being saved at the resurrection every time he mentioned entering the kingdom of God he always mentioned believing in him that was the only requirement. The only currency the kingdom accepts is faith and faith in what? in Jesus Christ not the resurrection not in anything else but he son of God that is how one is born again, the kingdom of God is not about a physical transofrmation it is about a spiritual one a matter of the heart if you cannot understand this much how can you claim to understand the simple things of scripture?
The ressurection is not about salvation it is about the raising of the dead into the kingdom of God the fulfillment of the promise that death will not hold us salvation itself is in the blood of Jesus Christ not in a transofrmation of the body even a child believes in Jesus and in doing so shows more wisdom than one who relies on a physical transformation for their salvation

Do you have any true basis any true scriptural standing to stand on for your believing that salvation is in the resurrection only? There is no point in believing if it does not save, there is no point in following if one does so only to make it to salvation in the end there is no point in calling ones self a believer because they might make it to salvation if they endure till the resurrection.

Salvation goes far beyond simply being saved it is about the relationship between God and us, the deep intimacy and love the bond and connection of the hearts between God and man a covanent soaked in the blood of Christ written in sacrifice drawn up by the father and signed by the holy spirit the father son and us.
From all you have said you appear to be a carnal Christian you know nothing of the holy spirit and do not have him in you you know the bible very well yes but do not truly see it or understand it because you see it through the wrong set of eyes

You likely think I am dead wrong and that I am the one who does not understand but you see what I have and what you lack is the deciding factor I have the holy spirit and I know the heart of God how he thinks how he sees how he works I have sought after the heart of God with a great hunger and coveted it more than anything in this existence or the next and in doing so truth has been revealed as does all who would chase after the heart of the Lord.
Tell me do you know of that hunger? do you know of the thirst that un ending longing to know his heart even if only just a bit more? Do you know what it is like to graon deeply inside from craving him so badly that words cannot express it?

If you believe but rely on the resurrection for your salvation then you do not really believe and you are not really saved nor will you be at the resurrection when it comesbecause you missed the entire point of the relationship. What exactly makes you worthy to be saved at the resurrection? it cannot be because you believe because if you believed then you would have already received his spirit if you received his spirit then you would know the things i speak of

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

To be saved one must be born again of water and spirit those were the words of Jesus himself he never once mentioned being saved at the resurrection every time he mentioned entering the kingdom of God he always mentioned believing in him that was the only requirement. The only currency the kingdom accepts is faith and faith in what? in Jesus Christ not the resurrection not in anything else but he son of God that is how one is born again, the kingdom of God is not about a physical transofrmation it is about a spiritual one a matter of the heart if you cannot understand this much how can you claim to understand the simple things of scripture?
The ressurection is not about salvation it is about the raising of the dead into the kingdom of God the fulfillment of the promise that death will not hold us salvation itself is in the blood of Jesus Christ not in a transofrmation of the body even a child believes in Jesus and in doing so shows more wisdom than one who relies on a physical transformation for their salvation

Do you have any true basis any true scriptural standing to stand on for your believing that salvation is in the resurrection only? There is no point in believing if it does not save, there is no point in following if one does so only to make it to salvation in the end there is no point in calling ones self a believer because they might make it to salvation if they endure till the resurrection.

Salvation goes far beyond simply being saved it is about the relationship between God and us, the deep intimacy and love the bond and connection of the hearts between God and man a covanent soaked in the blood of Christ written in sacrifice drawn up by the father and signed by the holy spirit the father son and us.
From all you have said you appear to be a carnal Christian you know nothing of the holy spirit and do not have him in you you know the bible very well yes but do not truly see it or understand it because you see it through the wrong set of eyes

You likely think I am dead wrong and that I am the one who does not understand but you see what I have and what you lack is the deciding factor I have the holy spirit and I know the heart of God how he thinks how he sees how he works I have sought after the heart of God with a great hunger and coveted it more than anything in this existence or the next and in doing so truth has been revealed as does all who would chase after the heart of the Lord.
Tell me do you know of that hunger? do you know of the thirst that un ending longing to know his heart even if only just a bit more? Do you know what it is like to graon deeply inside from craving him so badly that words cannot express it?

If you believe but rely on the resurrection for your salvation then you do not really believe and you are not really saved nor will you be at the resurrection when it comesbecause you missed the entire point of the relationship. What exactly makes you worthy to be saved at the resurrection? it cannot be because you believe because if you believed then you would have already received his spirit if you received his spirit then you would know the things i speak of

Well I have posted many scriptures saying the same as I have, both from teachings and from examples, and for a certainty there are very many more because of how central this is to the Bible. The resurrection is hugely important, that is when we are saved fully. Til then we just have faith, which again, is good, I'm not saying it is bad to have faith for indeed one must believe in Jesus that he was resurrected and will come again and resurrect us, but one can indeed lose the faith beforehand as also the Bible says and also shows by numerous examples.

As for the Holy Spirit and myself, since you assume I do not know him. I have read your topic where you experienced recently the Holy Spirit comforting and washing you, this I have experienced very frequently for years and happens to me every time whenever I go into the temple and speak with the Father. If I call for him, he will come, he always has for he knows me and I know him.

 

[Snacks]

For those of you that have judged yourselves as being 'saved', good luck with that. Jesus will personally judge you as to your salvation or damnation. But good luck with trying to save yourselves and judging yourselves as 'saved'.

Why are you so angry and resentful?

 

[Blain]

Well I have posted many scriptures saying the same as I have, both from teachings and from examples, and for a certainty there are very many more because of how central this is to the Bible. The resurrection is hugely important, that is when we are saved fully. Til then we just have faith, which again, is good, I'm not saying it is bad to have faith for indeed one must believe in Jesus that he was resurrected and will come again and resurrect us, but one can indeed lose the faith beforehand as also the Bible says and also shows by numerous examples.

As for the Holy Spirit and myself, since you assume I do not know him. I have read your topic where you experienced recently the Holy Spirit comforting and washing you, this I have experienced very frequently for years and happens to me every time whenever I go into the temple and speak with the Father. If I call for him, he will come, he always has for he knows me and I know him.

Yes you are right I should not have assumed anything and I apologize for that. Now as for the matter of truly being saved I don't believe in a partial salvation and Jesus doesn't teach one either he simply teaches salvation and the kingdom of God.
The scriptures say
John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life simple but profound believe in his son and you have eternal life it doesn't say make it to the resurrection and have eternal life it says believe in Jesus

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Yes you are right I should not have assumed anything and I apologize for that. Now as for the matter of truly being saved I don't believe in a partial salvation and Jesus doesn't teach one either he simply teaches salvation and the kingdom of God.
The scriptures say
John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life simple but profound believe in his son and you have eternal life it doesn't say make it to the resurrection and have eternal life it says believe in Jesus

Of course there is no partial salvation lol, you don't get partially resurrected, though that is a funny mental image.

People often cite John 3:16, but they should keep reading. There's two sides to this coin. Those who reject to believe are condemned.

Salvation is the resurrection of the dead, for we will all die most certainly, and then if there is no resurrection then we are just dead. Faith is believing in Jesus and the promise of the resurrection though we have not seen this yet. Faith is indeed needed to be saved, but faith can be denied, rejected, or even lost. Faith itself is not the salvation, but it is the faith that we will be saved, the belief that Jesus was crucified and resurrected, the hope that Jesus will come again and raise the dead, saving them from the grave, as God promised.

 

[Blain]

Of course there is no partial salvation lol, you don't get partially resurrected, though that is a funny mental image.

People often cite John 3:16, but they should keep reading. There's two sides to this coin. Those who reject to believe are condemned.

Salvation is the resurrection of the dead, for we will all die most certainly, and then if there is no resurrection then we are just dead. Faith is believing in Jesus and the promise of the resurrection though we have not seen this yet. Faith is indeed needed to be saved, but faith can be denied, rejected, or even lost. Faith itself is not the salvation, but it is the faith that we will be saved, the belief that Jesus was crucified and resurrected, the hope that Jesus will come again and raise the dead, saving them from the grave, as God promised.

So having the holy spirit, having a relationship with God being free from the chains of the old man this isn't saved to you? Or at the very least you believe one can lose it right?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

So having the holy spirit, having a relationship with God being free from the chains of the old man this isn't saved to you? Or at the very least you believe one can lose it right?

Correct, because we still have to run the race and endure to the end. We must hold the faith until the end.

Think of it like this in an analogy. A husband and wife, they have a relationship. They are supposed to stay married unto the end and be faithful unto the end. If the wife is obedient and faithful they will stay together. However say after a few years the wife is totally rebellious, a whore even, literally unfaithful, and so the husband having no pleasure in her divorces her. Can that woman say then she is once married always married and enjoy the benefits thereof? Or will the unfaithful and rebellious woman be utterly cast away into outer darkness?

 

[Magenta]

1 John 5:11-13 + John 6:47
We can know we are already saved because we can know we are in possession of eternal life.

No waiting around for the resurrection required John says we can know. I believe John

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 2:8-9
Someone is obviously very confused between being saved, and the resurrection

 

[Aerials1978]

I have not spoken of works, that's a whole other can of worms. Try not to ascribe personal things to me that I have not said, it is twisting your understanding of me.

I am pretty confident the scriptures are not wrong. My sense is the doctrines of man are wrong. I have acknowledged their scriptures, but they do not understand the element of faith/belief/hope and the actual resurrection which is what we are supposed to be having faith in as many of those scriptures do say that they post for me, yet they do not see it somehow very curiously.

My understanding of you is simply by the words you post. There’s a lot words, but not much substance.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

My understanding of you is simply by the words you post. There’s a lot words, but not much substance.

Is it because you are trying to imagine into me things that are not there?